Impey cleared of doping - free to race

[fmk_RoI]

"Small amounts of sodium bicarbonate have been shown to be useful as a supplement for athletes in speed-based events, like middle distance running, lasting from about one to seven minutes"

Hmmm not sure why a cyclist would want it.

Because they believe it might have benefits during the switch from aerobic to anaerobic effort - ie, at the end of a race? And it is what they believe that matters, not what the scientists believe.

 

[Rollthedice]

What could be the chances of this cross contamination to happen and furthermore it happens to a cyclist of all the people? This is beyond ridiculous.

 

[mrhender]

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/fitness/nutrition/sodium-bicarbonate-boost-26233

Even better, it also seems that bicarbonate can boost performance in sustained, prolonged effort events – ie the kind of conditions encountered by cyclists during time trials or racing – not just sprint events. And now new Swiss research appears 
to confirm this.

Sounds legit.. But we do not know if he made this (bicarbonate soda use) up..
Anyone knows if this is commonly used in the peleton?

However, before you reach for the baking soda, bear in mind that bicarbonate supplementation aids maximal rather than moderate sustained exercise. Also, remember that taking 0.3g per kilo of your bodyweight shortly before riding might result in gastric distress.

Doesn't sound like something the rider should self-medicate?
Why do teams have doctors if not for ensuring that anything that goes into the system is carefully monitored and administered by the team..?

I can't see the logic of riders going about themselves with purchasing empty capsules to fill with what not without any guidance from team doctors.. Unless of course.......

He may be the luckiest unlucky guy in the world..
I don't know what to make of it...

 

[Benotti69]

Because they believe it might have benefits during the switch from aerobic to anaerobic effort - ie, at the end of a race? And it is what they believe that matters, not what the scientists believe.

I believe what professional cyclists tell me. They are to be trusted.

 

[Tonton]

I believe what professional cyclists tell me. They are to be trusted.

Hehehe... it is a more sophisticated version of "the guy who got tested positive shared his bottle with me during the race", with a Virenque twist "a l'insu de mon plein gre", almost as laughable as the guy who would self transfuse himself with vitamin C, only to find out later that the blood bag previously belonged to Ricco, which explains the positive test. I don't buy it.

 

[fmk_RoI]

I believe what professional cyclists tell me. They are to be trusted.

You're okay, I've taken my iron supplements and know you're being ironic.

Do try and get this: no one is saying riders are to be believed, that riders are to be trusted. You're over-stretching to get there, as is your wont. In fact, we know that the sport encourages them to lie, to sandbag, to say they feel good when they feel bad, happy for a rival's victory when they'd love to cry, all sorts of lies. We know from experience, good and bad, they are not to be trusted.

We also know, from years of experience, that riders believe all sorts of things improve their performance, from plastic plugs up their noses to all sorts of legit products in finishing bottles (Champagne, quinine, etc). None of this stuff needs science to support it for them to do it. They do it because they believe it works. Calling into question whether a product works or not does nothing to challenge whether that product is used.

 

[Merckx index]

When handing bulk tablets there is a small degree of attrition, and dusting. It is entirely conceivable* that this could end up on something else dispensed. If the contaminant was in a capsule, then the only way for contamination would be a broken capsule. (which does happen but rarely)

*Of course the best practice drilled into me would involve hand washing after any sort of bulk dispensing

No, the proper procedure, at least in any scientific laboratory I’m aware of, is to wear disposable gloves. Are there really pharmacists in this day and age who handle any kind of drug with their bare hands?

 

[fmk_RoI]

Are there really pharmacists in this day and age who handle any kind of drug with their bare hands?

An error in the reporting, and now a red herring. Read the SAIDS statement linked to earlier, the contamination is claimed to have come via a pill counting machine, not hands.

Impey’s defense team stated that the pharmacy in question confirmed in evidence that they had sold Probenecid to a customer two hours prior to selling empty gelatin capsules to Daryl Impey and that on both occasions the products were dispensed using the same pill-counter.

“Impey presented expert evidence from pharmacy professionals, pharmacologists and pharmacokinetic experts confirming that cross-contamination caused by the use of the pill-counter in such manner was plausible,” [SAIDS CEO Khalid] Galant explained.

 

[mrhender]

No, the proper procedure, at least in any scientific laboratory I’m aware of, is to wear disposable gloves. Are there really pharmacists in this day and age who handle any kind of drug with their bare hands?

Not so sure about the hands explanation..
This is from the SAIDS
http://www.drugfreesport.org.za/2014/08/saids-accepts-decision-made-by-independent-tribunal-on-daryl-impey-doping-charge/

Impey’s defense team stated that the pharmacy in question confirmed in evidence that they had sold Probenecid to a customer two hours prior to selling empty gelatin capsules to Daryl Impey and that on both occasions the products were dispensed using the same pill-counter

So is it hands or pill-counter

Anyway I think you are right that using gloves should be normal procedure.
We can only speculate to this though.
----
http://www.passthetest.com/pass-a-drug-test/pass_a_drug_test.htm

It seems that Probenecide is pretty easy to detect though:

Probenecid would likewise slow the rate of excretion of anabolic steroids. Probenecid, however, is not very operational at doing this, and even if it was, it is on the banned substances list of most sports’ federations, and is smoothly detected in a drug test.

So if we assume he is not stupid, he would use another masking agent?

Also do I wonder as stated in my last post, why he -himself is adminestering these things, let alone purchasing and mixing it up himself... (reffering to the baking soda)

 

[BYOP88]

"Small amounts of sodium bicarbonate have been shown to be useful as a supplement for athletes in speed-based events, like middle distance running, lasting from about one to seven minutes"

Hmmm not sure why a cyclist would want it.

South Africa are really getting into the team pursuit stuff.

 

[TheGame]

probenecid or sulfinpyrazone may increase the risk of kidney stones by increasing the uric acid content in the urine. Maintenance of a large volume of alkaline urine increases the solubility of uric acid and thus reduces the risk of stone formation in the kidneys.

Adding baking soda to the water will make the urine more alkaline, increase the solubility of uric acid and help to reduce the risk of urinary tract stones.

http://www.alphanutrition.com/Gout/probenecid.htm

QED

 

[Almeisan]

So did Impey hire an independent scientist to confirm this story would indeed result in the said contamination and then the said positive?

Or are they just taking his world alongside the report that indeed the customer before him bought probenecid?

Otherwise, you just have the person in front of you buy/collect EPO or avanar, then use it yourself. When due to a fluke you indeed test positive, you pull out the 'evidence'.

 

[TailWindHome]

QED

Jesus wept.

 

[TheGame]

Jesus wept.

Its the clinic, I assumed that was enough.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Its the clinic, I assumed that was enough.

In the Clinic, all that's needed is to say he's a cyclist.

 

[Merckx index]

Impey’s defense team stated that the pharmacy in question confirmed in evidence that they had sold Probenecid to a customer two hours prior to selling empty gelatin capsules to Daryl Impey and that on both occasions the products were dispensed using the same pill-counter.

Contamination through a pill counter is just as bad, it’s equally evidence of an unacceptable level of sloppiness by the pharmacist. If the capsules could be contaminated by a drug contained in pills previously counted, why would one not think that other dispensed drugs would not also be contaminated?

Is the pill counter cleaned after every use? If not, the implication is that such cross-contamination goes on all the time. If I bought stuff from that pharmacist, I would certainly want to know that. In that case, it needs to be shown that the amount of contamination possible is negligible, that the amounts involved can’t possibly have any effect (rather like the cocaine that is said to be on every dollar bill). But if the amounts are negligible, how did enough drug get into Impey’s system to be detected (most people don’t test positive for cocaine)? He has to argue that the amount detected was extremely low. The reasonableness of this excuse can be directly tested. The question is, did the anti-doping body do this?

So did Impey hire an independent scientist to confirm this story would indeed result in the said contamination and then the said positive?

Or are they just taking his world alongside the report that indeed the customer before him bought probenecid?

Otherwise, you just have the person in front of you buy/collect EPO or avanar, then use it yourself. When due to a fluke you indeed test positive, you pull out the 'evidence'.

Exactly. Wouldn't work for EPO, but it would for some other drugs.

 

[Energy Starr]

In the Clinic, all that's needed is to say he's a cyclist.

You guys can go on and on about how it's possible and all, but you're just kidding yourselves. Carry on.

 

[mrhender]

You guys can go on and on about how it's possible and all, but you're just kidding yourselves. Carry on.

And you just carry on with the generalising then

 

[Energy Starr]

And you just carry on with the generalising then

Sorry...fmk_Rol and whoever else believes this stuff. Better?

 

[TheGame]

Sorry...fmk_Rol and whoever else believes this stuff. Better?

So you think that the fact Sodium Bicarb is used to counteract the risk of Urinary tract stones caused by taking Probenecid is just co-incidence?

And Impey just happened to be taking Sodium Bicarb, and the Probenecid and the Capsules for the Sodium Bicarb just happened to be purchased in successive transactions, and you believe in Unicorns.

 

[Catwhoorg]

No, the proper procedure, at least in any scientific laboratory I’m aware of, is to wear disposable gloves. Are there really pharmacists in this day and age who handle any kind of drug with their bare hands?

As I said, my most recent hands on experience behind the pharmacy scenes is ~28 years ago.

At that time the best practice was hand washing, and even that wasn't rigorously followed. My father (finally) retired as a pharmacist just last year, and that was still the standard he used.

In my day job in a lab I am always wearing appropriate gloves (according to the solvents I'm using).
I rarely see them used behind any pharmacy that I am visiting as a customer. ( I say rarely but really sat here I cannot recall ever seeing them used outside of a chemo unit pharmacy)

 

[fmk_RoI]

He has to argue that the amount detected was extremely low.

The SAIDS statement refers to "trace amounts" of Probenecid:

Khalid Galant, SAIDS CEO explains that Impey’s lawyers submitted a defense of ‘no fault or negligence’ on the basis that Impey had unknowingly come into contact with trace amounts of Probenecid following the collection of empty gelatin capsules from a pharmacy in Durban.

How much needs to be ingested to register trace amounts I don't know.

As to pharmacy procedures ... over the last year, I became more conscious of them, during my mother's illness. My local pharmacy is an old, family affair, and I have never seen them wearing gloves when dispensing tablets (and a number of my mother's meds came lose, not in blister packs) and I doubt that the pill counter ever got more than a cursory wipe with a tissue between uses. So while all of what Impey claims happened clearly goes against best practice, is it possible that it did actually happen? In my experience it's not impossible. (Could it have produced the effect attributed to it? Let's see if UCI/WADA take SAIDS to CAS.)

 

[Tonton]

No, the proper procedure, at least in any scientific laboratory I’m aware of, is to wear disposable gloves. Are there really pharmacists in this day and age who handle any kind of drug with their bare hands?

It's only one weird element to this whole thing:

1. Impey makes his own pills. Shady? Not at all! Don't we all do that?
2. The pharmacist happened to be handling prohibited drugs just before handling Impey's order. I understand that many everyday medications are banned in athletics. So, bad luck?
3. Because some may have violent reactions or allergies to certain medications, pharmacists must perform in a safe environment, which you are right includes disposable gloves/tools, wash/rinse/sanitize et caetera. Well, not here. More bad luck.

Questions: who is that pharmacist? Who are his other customers? Any name that we know? Who is the client who ordered the previous order, the one who contaminated Impey's capsules? Any possibility that he was a decoy, hired to serve as the alibi in case things go wrong? Any links, money trail? It will take a lot to convince me. I hope that all the details come out.

 

[fmk_RoI]

you believe in Unicorns.

Oh wuzzums, do grow up, please.

 

[mrhender]

Sorry...fmk_Rol and whoever else believes this stuff. Better?

Fine if you don't believe it, and fine to say so...
Entertaining the possibility of a just verdict and attempting to dissect the facts of the case in which we have limited access to is cause for ridicule..??
I beg to differ..