Is Chris Horner a GC contender

[Alpe d'Huez]

This is a phenomenon that only has occurred recently in pro cycling....

I see the same exact thin Berzin. But then again, I guess that's just our opinion.

 

[Kungfu Supercomputer]

This pretty much sums up my view.

In general, the doping talk doesn't annoy me because I believe they aren't doping. Rather it annoys me because I believe they are all doping. I don't see it as a determining factor. The only way we see a guy get a huge improvement from doping would mean he was clean before (hard as that is to believe).

If Horner's improvement really is due to dope... then he's only now at the end of his career getting on a program that most of the GC guys have been on since their mid to late 20's. Sucks for him he got such a late start or he might have had a better career.

Well guys, this is futile.

For one thing there would have to be across the board doctoring of alot of powerfiles. Many recent world class perfomances are inline with what is humanly possible clean, based on many of the files available. The information is out there, I cant do all your homework for you. I do feel though that any fan of the sport has a responsibility to know wt* they are talking about before they go commiting character assasination on the entire peloton. Yes, if you are a FAN, and want to open your mouth - you have a responsibility. Its an ethical issue no different than the doping/cheating itself(kind of ironic huh).

I've got to admit, when I was watching Roubaix, my blood pressure began to rise... Cancellara soloing away..."oh boy" I think..."oh jeeez".."uh oh"...I even mention to my wife, "Oh that def. makes you raise your eyebrows...Im afraid he's gotta be geeked up"...that (familiar)disgusted feeling was creeping in. In my mind he was dropping the remnants of the race, going 50kph after 6 hours....when I noticed he was WAAAY up on his cassette, in his 17 if he was riding an 11-21? I quietly watched the rest of the race...

The mind is funny, and more often than not emotional, nebulous analysis spits out incorrect results.

 

[Oldman]

I think that anyone today who is competitive in Pro Tour level racing has to at least have something special in their medicine cabinet. On the team level it can extend from teamwide programs at one extreme to simply internal team testing to make sure that every rider is within the Passport parameters, with the unspoken guideline of we don't really want to know what you are doing as long as you acknowledge that you know the only thing worse that not getting results is failing a test.
The advantage gained by doping is just too great and the sheer numbers of riders caught and providers uncovered is too high to come to any other conclusion in my mind.Also the majority of positive tests come from also rans using last years drugs. If they were the only ones using CERA (for example) why were they not winning everything?

In reference to Horner I think there is that parallel arc as well. He probably hit his actual peak a few years back but now has a much more methodic control over his program, training, rest and racing. He had to pretty much win everything in the US to eat.
Note to Berzin; endurance atheletes do peak in their thirties. Especially low-impact sports that don't rely exclusively on fast twitch.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Well guys, this is futile.

For one thing there would have to be across the board doctoring of alot of powerfiles. Many recent world class perfomances are inline with what is humanly possible clean, based on many of the files available. The information is out there, I cant do all your homework for you. I do feel though that any fan of the sport has a responsibility to know wt* they are talking about before they go commiting character assasination on the entire peloton. Yes, if you are a FAN, and want to open your mouth - you have a responsibility. Its an ethical issue no different than the doping/cheating itself(kind of ironic huh).

I've got to admit, when I was watching Roubaix, my blood pressure began to rise... Cancellara soloing away..."oh boy" I think..."oh jeeez".."uh oh"...I even mention to my wife, "Oh that def. makes you raise your eyebrows...Im afraid he's gotta be geeked up"...that (familiar)disgusted feeling was creeping in. In my mind he was dropping the remnants of the race, going 50kph after 6 hours....when I noticed he was WAAAY up on his cassette, in his 17 if he was riding an 11-21? I quietly watched the rest of the race...

The mind is funny, and more often than not emotional, nebulous analysis spits out incorrect results.

Ah, so just a few bad apples then.

 

[theswordsman]

Note to Berzin; endurance atheletes do peak in their thirties. Especially low-impact sports that don't rely exclusively on fast twitch.

I can't wait to see what Contador's prime looks like

 

[Oldman]

I can't wait to see what Contador's prime looks like

He's clearly not overracing so he may have the longevity. Not every rider develops on the same time line. We are used to most of the serious pro contenders showing their ability as juniors and neo-pros. Other continental pros haven't had the same exposure and would naturally arrive on the big stage later. That doesn't mean they lacked talent as much as opportunity.

 

[kurtinsc]

I can't wait to see what Contador's prime looks like

I can't wait either.

I hope he pushes himself and tries for some Giro-Tour or Tour-Vuelta doubles rather then just "settling" for winning the tour a bunch like Lance did (not that there's anything wrong with that). Perhaps even push to win an Ardennes classic or two... or possibly a World Championship on a suitable course.

 

[Oldman]

I can't wait either.

I hope he pushes himself and tries for some Giro-Tour or Tour-Vuelta doubles rather then just "settling" for winning the tour a bunch like Lance did (not that there's anything wrong with that). Perhaps even push to win an Ardennes classic or two... or possibly a World Championship on a suitable course.

I don't think we'll see a physique like Contador taking on Classics anytime soon. The specialization necessary to win those races falls into the "large frame" rider. Getting that type of endurance and power would come at the expense of climbing.

As for the topic, Horner; he never had that level of potential. He also, as many have pointed out, need a rare combination of form and luck to be a podium placer. He's not going to do that now based on the Basque result.

 

[Publicus]

I don't think we'll see a physique like Contador taking on Classics anytime soon. The specialization necessary to win those races falls into the "large frame" rider. Getting that type of endurance and power would come at the expense of climbing.

As for the topic, Horner; he never had that level of potential. He also, as many have pointed out, need a rare combination of form and luck to be a podium placer. He's not going to do that now based on the Basque result.

Isn't he racing Fleche Wallonne and Liege-Bastogne-Liege this year? Or do those not qualify as Classics? Not being flippant, your definition may limit the Classics to the cobbled Classics, so I wanted to get some clarification.

 

[jaylew]

He obviously missed the Ardennes part of that post. The Schleck bros aren't exactly large-framed.

 

[theswordsman]

My apologies for derailing the thread temporarily. I'll stop there. If anyone wants to move their topics to the Contador 2010 thread, I'll join in.

To get this one back on track, Cyclismag nabbed this from Diario Vasco

Chris Horner inspires Alejandro Valverde

Alejandro Valverde, whose career could be a forced shutdown in May next, draw a lesson from its defeat in the Tour of Basque Country: "Look Chris Horner (winner Ed), he goes on his 39th birthday and is still there. Even if they stop me (the UCI and CAS, Ed) I will continue to run, I still have many years ahead of me if the physical with me. "
Source : Diario Vasco

http://www.cyclismag.com/article.php?sid=5738#ancre1

 

[palmerq]

no, that's all there is to it :S............. What has he ever done, how old is he?...... A win in some week long stage race, where he beat valverde in a time trial, even though valverde is a competent time trialist that does not make you a gt contender, I dont think he'd ever get into the top 10.....

I think if horner wasnt america no one would care about him.

 

[Oldman]

Isn't he racing Fleche Wallonne and Liege-Bastogne-Liege this year? Or do those not qualify as Classics? Not being flippant, your definition may limit the Classics to the cobbled Classics, so I wanted to get some clarification.

My mistake and was thinking cobbled, nasty stuff.

 

[Oldman]

no, that's all there is to it :S............. What has he ever done, how old is he?...... A win in some week long stage race, where he beat valverde in a time trial, even though valverde is a competent time trialist that does not make you a gt contender, I dont think he'd ever get into the top 10.....

I think if horner wasnt america no one would care about him.

I don't know where you're from but you are talking out of your as*. The thread started as a question about his chances as a GT contender and he seems to fail that test on this forum. Otherwise he has had a credible and respected career. Ask Evans, Contador and every other stud he towed up the hill.

 

[palmerq]

I dont understand... the question seems to be can he be a contendor for the gc of a gt..... I think no chance, ever, which is fair enough because he hasnt really done anything to prove he can..... Maybe I did sound a bit insulting to him, but I didnt mean he was some rubbish cyclist, you can have a fine career and not be a gc contendor I think he certainly isnt, will ever be or could ever have been ..... what's the problem :S

 

[Oldman]

I dont understand... the question seems to be can he be a contendor for the gc of a gt..... I think no chance, ever, which is fair enough because he hasnt really done anything to prove he can..... Maybe I did sound a bit insulting to him, but I didnt mean he was some rubbish cyclist, you can have a fine career and not be a gc contendor I think he certainly isnt, will ever be or could ever have been ..... what's the problem :S

No problem with that statement at all. Your other statement was much less considerate of his accomplishments.

 

[hfer07]

Horner a GT contender? NO
Why: do I need to explain what is obvious?

 

[Ferminal]

I hope you realize that Valverde will not be riding the Tour unless hell freezes over.

I know... But as of now he's still racing (maybe only in Spain?) so why not include him

 

[Angliru]

I don't think we'll see a physique like Contador taking on Classics anytime soon. The specialization necessary to win those races falls into the "large frame" rider. Getting that type of endurance and power would come at the expense of climbing.

Aren't you confusing the cobbled classics with the Ardennes which the grand tour contenders tend to do pretty well in? Contador has expressed an interest in testing the waters in the Ardennes in the future so I wouldn't put it past him have a good showing in the future if he makes one of his goals.

 

[Angliru]

no, that's all there is to it :S............. What has he ever done, how old is he?...... A win in some week long stage race, where he beat valverde in a time trial, even though valverde is a competent time trialist that does not make you a gt contender, I dont think he'd ever get into the top 10.....

I think if horner wasnt america no one would care about him.

I'm American and I usually root for the Spanish speaking little climbers so that really doesn't apply to all opinions here. I based my opinion on what I've seen of Horner over the past 2 years: his abbreviated performance at the Giro, how he dominated the domestique scene in his pre Saunier Duval/Lotto/Astana/Shack years--and I mean if you could have seen let's say his performance one year in the T-Mobile race in San Francisco, you'd have thought that he wasting his time racing domestically. I did. Also his decision to alter training diet to eliminate or curtail his beloved fast food means he's no longer racing on the sludge that I'm personally accustomed to.

If you look at many of the posts in this thread, you will see that they're from more than just the US unless you're implying that folks all over the world are predisposed to root for the American riders.

 

[Jonathan]

Still, you can fill in a lot of names for "Is ... a GC contender?", but when that name is of an American rider the thread will become longer. Regardless of the actual opinions of American contributors.

 

[Angliru]

I can see where the doubts would arise though if one were unfamiliar with Horner's exploits in the U.S. I wasn't one to really keep up with the domestique racing scene the way I passionately followed what happened in Europe but Horner was really the exception for me. In some races he was almost a man among boys so to speak, such was his dominance.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

Horner a GT contender?

Clearly yes. As he said himself, people who looked saw it last year. The Giro? He looked excellent. Actually looked better than "the big super favorite" Leipheimer.... If RadioShack had tried to go to the Giro and put him as a leader.. Basso-Pellizotti-Sastre-Evans.. followed by Horner. But he won't get a chance. Not at the Tour for sure. Who knows, maybe they let him do the Vuelta? Lance Klödenheimer won't be interested as usual.. Brajkovic-Horner as co leaders... there too Horner has his chances.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

To me he is a GT contender if he improves his itt which has become one of his weaknesses in the last few years. Horner is physically an abnormal talent and he has always been that. when he dominated the us scene and made a 2nd career in europe I think he saw what potential he still had. last years giro he rode excellently in the high mountains until he fell out. it was also an eye opener to him I'm sure.

his other problem is that he crashes alot and has many injury's which has kept him of 3 week races most of the time.

 

[flicker]

I watched him in the TMobile SF race and the Sea Otter. Great rider, below LeMond/Armstrong.

Good for weeklong stage races and classics/one day races.

Chris does not have the stamina for 3 weeks. Plus he doesn't crash well.

As far as dope is concerned, I see him as the same rider as I always have.

His result in Pais wasn't because of dope. It was because he peaked and rode a smart race. He was aggressive from the get go and the competition wore down.

Not dope, Horner won that race fair and square.