Is Contador THAT hated in U.S

[PinchFlat]

Nothing to do with Lance. It's a personal gesture to someone in particular, but I've never heard/read who that person actually is.

I'm an american and that stupid hand gesture prevents me from being able to back Contador. It was almost cool the first time but quickly achieved dork status. "Heeeee Haw! Get out those six shooters boys!"

Will you find out who and let me know? - maybe then I can finally enjoy an AC win.

 

[Tangled Tango]

IMO, smack talk only makes it more entertaining if one loses sight of the fact that the people on the receiving end of the obnoxious behavior are actually people not celebrity automatons. Are you sure the entertainment value is the primary reason you like this behavior?

I speculate one of the reasons people are attracted to successful braggarts is because they want to believe that some human beings are invincible in some way. The bragging is seen as evidence that the bragger believes in their own invincibility, which helps the spectator to believe what they want to believe.

Apologies for the faux psycho-babble; I'm not saying that any of the above describes you. Just asking whether you think this idea might have some relevance, and trying to understand an attitude that is quite prevalent, but totally at odds with my own.

May I add that comparing cycling to basketball is ridiculous in this context, in one way particular in that a large percentage of pro basketball players start out in life with next to nothing, playing in the streets, where boasting, bragging and trash talk is part of their suvival mode, whether on or off the court.

My psycho-babble take on it is I see the reasons for bragging and putting others down as more to do with insecurity. People who chant "we´re number one" or "the best", whether it be their favorite team, sportsman or country.......it´s all about actually not feeling anywhere near like number one within themselves. Most braggers are arrogant bullys who are just as apt to start whining when things don´t go their way. When they win it proves their point, but when they don´t......look out, it´s never pretty.

For me cycling has enough drama without the BS.

 

[scribe]

I'm an american and that stupid hand gesture prevents me from being able to back Contador. It was almost cool the first time but quickly achieved dork status. "Heeeee Haw! Get out those six shooters boys!"

Will you find out who and let me know? - maybe then I can finally enjoy an AC win.

It's almost like his agent told him to make some sort of signature so that they can market it.

I think they put it on his 'I won the tour again' hat for the podium.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

The pistol salute is great if used once, now it's just cliche and redundant. It always reminds me of one thing: Shooter McGavin

 

[Publicus]

I'm an american and that stupid hand gesture prevents me from being able to back Contador. It was almost cool the first time but quickly achieved dork status. "Heeeee Haw! Get out those six shooters boys!"

Will you find out who and let me know? - maybe then I can finally enjoy an AC win.

No, it's not that important to me.

 

[Publicus]

May I add that comparing cycling to basketball is ridiculous in this context, in one way particular in that a large percentage of pro basketball players start out in life with next to nothing, playing in the streets, where boasting, bragging and trash talk is part of their suvival mode, whether on or off the court.

My psycho-babble take on it is I see the reasons for bragging and putting others down as more to do with insecurity. People who chant "we´re number one" or "the best", whether it be their favorite team, sportsman or country.......it´s all about actually not feeling anywhere near like number one within themselves. Most braggers are arrogant bullys who are just as apt to start whining when things don´t go their way. When they win it proves their point, but when they don´t......look out, it´s never pretty.

For me cycling has enough drama without the BS.

I think you all need to stop. Venturing into stereotyping, etc., is going to take this conversation into a direction I don't think you fully appreciate at that moment, but will regret fairly quickly.

 

[PinchFlat]

No, it's not that important to me.

But it's your avatar?

Seriously now. I know this has been done to death in forums with the whole shooter McGavin comparison (still funny as hell by the way!!!!) but what does it really mean. Why is he called the Pistolero de Pinto (and yes I get the Pinto part). And what is with the salute. I grasp he is giving a shout out to his people but where does this really come from? Anyone care to tell?

And if it really is just marketing then more power to the man!

 

[Publicus]

But it's your avatar?

Seriously now. I know this has been done to death in forums with the whole shooter McGavin comparison (still funny as hell by the way!!!!) but what does it really mean. Why is he called the Pistolero de Pinto (and yes I get the Pinto part). And what is with the salute. I grasp he is giving a shout out to his people but where does this really come from? Anyone care to tell?

And if it really is just marketing then more power to the man!

I don't care that he does it, why he does it. It's immaterial to why I like him as a cyclist (his riding style), so why invest any energy into it?


I spy...

 

[icefire]

I'm an american and that stupid hand gesture prevents me from being able to back Contador. It was almost cool the first time but quickly achieved dork status. "Heeeee Haw! Get out those six shooters boys!"

Will you find out who and let me know? - maybe then I can finally enjoy an AC win.

I have no idea if the shooting celebration is a message to someone, but he's been a distinguished member of the shooting and hunting club in his home town before he became pro. Back in 2005, before his brain surgery, he didn't use to do it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTtrUjWvAJE

 

[PinchFlat]

That's cool Publicus. Anyone else know where the whole salute thing originated? (edit: Thanks for the starting point Icefire)

This thread has pointed toward the country's love affair with Lance for the general perception of AC hatered in America but this salute certainly can't be winning him popularity?

 

[Guidokcd]

Not an AC fan. However, he is an unbelievable talent. No denying that. I'm impressed he stuck with Astana, and he's shown that he trusted and believed in them when they said they'd give him a team, and so far, it seems like they've given him a very good team to work with.
The pistolero trade-mark is kind of lame, imo, but whatever.
Obviously, he was bitter for awhile after his treatment at Astana last year by the two bosses, and for a while he talked too much about it, and took too many jabs, which he wasn't good at. Let the Texan do the trash talking that no one cares about (and I do like Lance). This year, he's shut-up more and just let his racing do the talking, which, obviously, has done him well. I don't care if he wins another Tour or not, I just hope for a good, exciting race.
However, defacing an Audi with his trade-mark pistol-grip is just lame to me. I guess, maybe he can write the car off his taxes now as a business expense or something. I doubt Lance painted his Porsche black and yellow, with Livestrong printed on it.
Non-racing fans may have heard of him in the US, as the Spanaird who won the Tour last year. Most won't even know he also won in 2007, or his other palmares, and most certainly don't hate him just because he bit the Texan. Racing fans all have their own opinions as to whether or not they like him and why, hopefully based on how he is on and off the bike, and not because they like someone else and therefore can't like him.

 

[bianchigirl]

Not an AC fan. However, he is an unbelievable talent. No denying that. I'm impressed he stuck with Astana, and he's shown that he trusted and believed in them when they said they'd give him a team, and so far, it seems like they've given him a very good team to work with.
The pistolero trade-mark is kind of lame, imo, but whatever.
Obviously, he was bitter for awhile after his treatment at Astana last year by the two bosses, and for a while he talked too much about it, and took too many jabs, which he wasn't good at. Let the Texan do the trash talking that no one cares about (and I do like Lance). This year, he's shut-up more and just let his racing do the talking, which, obviously, has done him well. I don't care if he wins another Tour or not, I just hope for a good, exciting race.
However, defacing an Audi with his trade-mark pistol-grip is just lame to me. I guess, maybe he can write the car off his taxes now as a business expense or something. I doubt Lance painted his Porsche black and yellow, with Livestrong printed on it.Non-racing fans may have heard of him in the US, as the Spanaird who won the Tour last year. Most won't even know he also won in 2007, or his other palmares, and most certainly don't hate him just because he bit the Texan. Racing fans all have their own opinions as to whether or not they like him and why, hopefully based on how he is on and off the bike, and not because they like someone else and therefore can't like him.

No, he just licences that ugly black and yellow shit to anyone and everyone who lines his pockets

 

[Publicus]

Not an AC fan. However, he is an unbelievable talent. No denying that. I'm impressed he stuck with Astana, and he's shown that he trusted and believed in them when they said they'd give him a team, and so far, it seems like they've given him a very good team to work with.
The pistolero trade-mark is kind of lame, imo, but whatever.
Obviously, he was bitter for awhile after his treatment at Astana last year by the two bosses, and for a while he talked too much about it, and took too many jabs, which he wasn't good at. Let the Texan do the trash talking that no one cares about (and I do like Lance). This year, he's shut-up more and just let his racing do the talking, which, obviously, has done him well. I don't care if he wins another Tour or not, I just hope for a good, exciting race.
However, defacing an Audi with his trade-mark pistol-grip is just lame to me. I guess, maybe he can write the car off his taxes now as a business expense or something. I doubt Lance painted his Porsche black and yellow, with Livestrong printed on it.
Non-racing fans may have heard of him in the US, as the Spanaird who won the Tour last year. Most won't even know he also won in 2007, or his other palmares, and most certainly don't hate him just because he bit the Texan. Racing fans all have their own opinions as to whether or not they like him and why, hopefully based on how he is on and off the bike, and not because they like someone else and therefore can't like him.

He talks as much as he did last year--which isn't much. I suspect what you mean is that his post-Tour comments cast Bruyneel and Armstrong in a pretty bad light. Which they undoubtedly did.

 

[hawkeye87]

Take a look at the postings in this thread

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=209568

to get an idea of how a lot of North Americans view Contador.

We have been force fed the Armstrong view of the world - sadly, people believe it.

He was robbed last year you know, he should have won the Tour and would have if it weren't for Contador riding better ............

Details.

Actually that was pretty tame. Having read the pro-Armstrong stuff over the years, I would say some of his myth has worn off.

About 50% of the posts referring to him basically gave him no chance against Contador.

 

[hawkeye87]

I'm an american and that stupid hand gesture prevents me from being able to back Contador. It was almost cool the first time but quickly achieved dork status. "Heeeee Haw! Get out those six shooters boys!"

Will you find out who and let me know? - maybe then I can finally enjoy an AC win.

I thiink of it as too gimicky too and I do not like to watch him cross the line because of it.

 

[hawkeye87]

That's cool Publicus. Anyone else know where the whole salute thing originated? (edit: Thanks for the starting point Icefire)

I do not think he really started to do it until 2008 or thereabouts. I do not recall the pistol shooting in the 2007 TdF that he won.

He had the spread eagle leg thing or the "look at my package" celebration stance in P-N in 2007 and stage wins in the 2007 TdF.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Obviously, he was bitter for awhile after his treatment at Astana last year by the two bosses, and for a while he talked too much about it, and took too many jabs, which he wasn't good at. Let the Texan do the trash talking that no one cares about (and I do like Lance). This year, he's shut-up more and just let his racing do the talking, which, obviously, has done him well. I don't care if he wins another Tour or not, I just hope for a good, exciting race.

How many jabs did he take? I recall the 'I never respected Lance' quote that was not very well translated anyway, and the bit about the wheels. And that's all. Nothing compared to the amount of pot-shots taken by Lance and Johan. You think it'd be better if Lance and Johan could just trash talk all they like, with the media eating out of their hands, and 'Berto should sit back and smile while he's painted as a villain to the world?

 

[eleven]

He had the spread eagle leg thing or the "look at my package" celebration stance in P-N in 2007 and stage wins in the 2007 TdF.

I'm quite happy that celebration has been put to rest. That was almost disturbing.

As to the original question, I don't hate Contador at all. I love how he animates races and I have a lot of respect for what he's done on the road. Would I cheer for him over Evans, Horner or Miller? No. But that's not out of hate.

 

[kurtinsc]

I'm a Sacramento fan and choked when I read that. Watch the Suns Bulls finals series from 94 again please. Barkley is in the top 5 power forwards of all time. Richmond would be lucky to break the top 20 shooting guards.

As for your earlier Pippen without Jordan comment. When Jordan retired the first time Pippen took the Bulls to the East Conference finals as the team leader.

IMO stick to cycling, because your basketball statements are seriously off.

The Mitch Richmond thing was overkill... Richmond has always been the best example to me of an exceptional player getting zero media attention due to not playing for a big team and not having much in the way of personality.

I'd argue the "top 5 power forward" thing... but it's not really worth it. Duncan IS definitely better then Barkley... without question.

You're nitpicking at details when the point of the post is still solid... personality is a big reason why Barkley has as many fans as he does. Use Carl Malone for comparison if you prefer... a superior player with less fan interest due to a less engaging personality. Contador is BORING. Contador's talent with Wiggins or Zabriskie's personality would be a HUGE hit in the US.

And as for Pippin... it was the conference semi-finals, not the finals. The conference finals was Knicks vs Pacers. And Pippin was a pouty little whiner who wouldn't take the floor when someone else was called to make a game winning shot in the series (Tony Kukoc... who MADE the shot). Pippin was a #2 option... not a star... but he talked trash like a star his entire career. Had he not played next to Michael Jordan, he'd be on none of the "greatest of all-time" lists that he makes it on. Without Jordan he's a Vince Carter type player.

 

[Ferminal]

The Mitch Richmond thing was overkill... Richmond has always been the best example to me of an exceptional player getting zero media attention due to not playing for a big team and not having much in the way of personality.

I'd argue the "top 5 power forward" thing... but it's not really worth it. Duncan IS definitely better then Barkley... without question.

You're nitpicking at details when the point of the post is still solid... personality is a big reason why Barkley has as many fans as he does. Use Carl Malone for comparison if you prefer... a superior player with less fan interest due to a less engaging personality. Contador is BORING. Contador's talent with Wiggins or Zabriskie's personality would be a HUGE hit in the US.

And as for Pippin... it was the conference semi-finals, not the finals. The conference finals was Knicks vs Pacers. And Pippin was a pouty little whiner who wouldn't take the floor when someone else was called to make a game winning shot in the series (Tony Kukoc... who MADE the shot). Pippin was a #2 option... not a star... but he talked trash like a star his entire career. Had he not played next to Michael Jordan, he'd be on none of the "greatest of all-time" lists that he makes it on. Without Jordan he's a Vince Carter type player.

Do you find Federer boring?

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

And as for Pippin... it was the conference semi-finals, not the finals. The conference finals was Knicks vs Pacers. And Pippin was a pouty little whiner who wouldn't take the floor when someone else was called to make a game winning shot in the series (Tony Kukoc... who MADE the shot). Pippin was a #2 option... not a star... but he talked trash like a star his entire career. Had he not played next to Michael Jordan, he'd be on none of the "greatest of all-time" lists that he makes it on. Without Jordan he's a Vince Carter type player.

Totally disagree. When Jordan first retired, Pippen led the NBA in steals and finished third in MVP voting, and won the all star game MVP. He is also second to Jordan in points, assists, and steals all time within the Bulls organization. While in Portland, he led the trailblazers to the Western Conference finals, and visited the playoffs each year. He has 16 straight playoff appearances and is third all-time in playoff game appearances. He's an unquestionable hall-of-fame player, and one of the 50 greatest of all time. You could just as easily say Jordan never would have found the success he did without Pippen (neither won a ring without the other, though Pip came closer) Vince Carter is forward with a powerful dunk and a decent shot; that's it. If it weren't his dunk contest victory, he wouldn't have found the fame he has. The only stat where Carter has the edge is all star game selections (2 more) which is likely the result of his dunking ability, but he has never made the all NBA first team. Pippen on the other hand, has three All-NBA first team selections, and 8 All-Defensive First team selections. You're talking about one of the greatest defenders ever to play the game. Hell one of the greatest players...ever. Vince Carter is slim hall of fame candidate, certainly not first ballot.

And in that Knicks/Bulls series, the reason they lost is because Pip was called for a phantom foul on a knicks player (I think Hubert Davis) which allowed him to shoot game winning free throws. The home team won each game in that series. That call prevented the bulls from stealing home court, and thus the series.

Back on topic....

 

[kurtinsc]

Do you find Federer boring?

Yes. And I found Bjorn Borg boring as well. I like Nadal more now, and Mcenroe back in Borg's day. I never liked Pete Sampras either.

 

[reeftom12]

Well, I really do not like AC. I think it's mostly the stupid pistol things he does, why not just be classy and give a two armed salute like all the other guys. His style of racing is not that great either, I prefer racers that can strike out on their own and TT to victory.

 

[kurtinsc]

Totally disagree. When Jordan first retired, Pippen led the NBA in steals and finished third in MVP voting, and won the all star game MVP. He is also second to Jordan in points, assists, and steals all time within the Bulls organization. While in Portland, he led the trailblazers to the Western Conference finals, and visited the playoffs each year. He has 16 straight playoff appearances and is third all-time in playoff game appearances. He's an unquestionable hall-of-fame player, and one of the 50 greatest of all time. You could just as easily say Jordan never would have found the success he did without Pippen (neither won a ring without the other, though Pip came closer) Vince Carter is forward with a powerful dunk and a decent shot; that's it. If it weren't his dunk contest victory, he wouldn't have found the fame he has. The only stat where Carter has the edge is all star game selections (2 more) which is likely the result of his dunking ability, but he has never made the all NBA first team. Pippen on the other hand, has three All-NBA first team selections, and 8 All-Defensive First team selections. You're talking about one of the greatest defenders ever to play the game. Hell one of the greatest players...ever. Vince Carter is slim hall of fame candidate, certainly not first ballot.

And in that Knicks/Bulls series, the reason they lost is because Pip was called for a phantom foul on a knicks player (I think Hubert Davis) which allowed him to shoot game winning free throws. The home team won each game in that series. That call prevented the bulls from stealing home court, and thus the series.

Back on topic....

We'll have to agree to disagree.

My opinion is there were about 30 NBA players you could have teamed with Jordan and he would have won titles. In reverse... there weren't any other then Jordan that Pippin could have teamed with to win one. Okay... maybe one in Kobe at the end of Pippin's career, but that was it. If he couldn't get there with Barkley and Olajuwon in Portland, then I don't know who it was going to work with.

He averaged 12 points a game with Portland when they made the western conference finals. Rasheed Wallace was the reason for Portland's success, not Pippin.

But yes... this probably isn't the place... it was supposed to be an analogy to make my viewpoint more clear and instead we're lost in arguing details totally unimportant to the cycling topic. My apologies.

 

[Race Radio]

I doubt Lance painted his Porsche black and yellow, with Livestrong printed on it.
.

Maybe not, but he did do this to his jet


http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/video/12042010/58/planet-armstrong-flanders.html