Is steel still real?

[fatsprintking]

i must agree. ride as is and you will be fine. you could upgrade components, but to what end? if you need lighter stuff,ok, but that is a nice bike.TSX is good tubing,and i disagree about the bottom bracket. it should ride very well,and sprint great.

This sounds pretty right to me. I never stress about bb stiffness on my old colnago or on the old lemond I had, but there is a pretty big differnence in the feel of a steel fork with a quill stem compared to a modern set up which is most noticable when out of the saddle, this combined with wheels is where I feel the bigget difference. Riding in the seat I never feel like my steel frame has too much flex.

The advantages of your steel frame will be its quietness, comfort and certain smugness that you get with knowing that you are not blindly following fashion, but are treading your own path.

 

[drb716]

Anyone know where the newer (2011-2012) Raleigh International frames are made? A number of websites list multiple manufacturing centers for Raleigh - I'm curious if lugged steel construction had been sent to the far east as well.
Thanks

Managed to finally get an answer from Raleigh, if anyone's interested: the new International is made by Colossi in China.

So, I'm now considering the following frames (all new): Raleigh International (Reynolds 853), Tommasini Tecno (Columbus Nemo), Ciocc San Cristobal (Columbus SLX?), Cinelli SuperCorsa (new Columbus SL). All run about $2,500 - $2,700US except for the Raleigh, which is $1,650. Does anyone have any experience with any of these? Thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[ElChingon]

Perfect timing, I found this great Steel bike, steel lovers will rejoice I'm sure

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Managed to finally get an answer from Raleigh, if anyone's interested: the new International is made by Colossi in China.

So, I'm now considering the following frames (all new): Raleigh International (Reynolds 853), Tommasini Tecno (Columbus Nemo), Ciocc San Cristobal (Columbus SLX?), Cinelli SuperCorsa (new Columbus SL). All run about $2,500 - $2,700US except for the Raleigh, which is $1,650. Does anyone have any experience with any of these? Thoughts?

Thanks!

The Tommasini is the best frame in your list without even thinking about it too much.

 

[avanti]

Perfect timing, I found this great Steel bike, steel lovers will rejoice I'm sure

Looks perfect for applying an aerodynamic concrete fairing.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Alright, very funny rebar bike, now back to regularly scheduled programming....

Is steal still real? Well, Casati seems to think so.

 

[42x16ss]

mmmmmm very nice! Especially the red/bare steel and the white lugged frames.

Has anyone had a chance to try one of these bad boys yet?

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

mmmmmm very nice! Especially the red/bare steel and the white lugged frames.

Has anyone had a chance to try one of these bad boys yet?

That bare one with the red you're referring to is the Inox 99, stainless steel. The white is the Campionissimo, Dedacciai Zero Uno, which I took out for a short spin around the block about a month ago, I was in heaven for a short second. Casati is one of those uber mystical marques, dream rides for sure. Have more hours on the carbon Marte, and Arte.

 

[42x16ss]

That bare one with the red you're referring to is the Inox 99, stainless steel. The white is the Campionissimo, Dedacciai Zero Uno, which I took out for a short spin around the block about a month ago, I was in heaven for a short second. Casati is one of those uber mystical marques, dream rides for sure. Have more hours on the carbon Marte, and Arte.

I've only seen a handful of Casati on the road but each time I have been captivated by them, they look like beautiful bikes.

I'm trying to justify a new Stainless/Ti bike that will last for years for training etc and saving the Super Six for race day but the minister for war and finance doesn't quite see things my way

Pictures like the ones above and the De Rosa earlier don't help either...

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I've only seen a handful of Casati on the road but each time I have been captivated by them, they look like beautiful bikes.

I'm trying to justify a new Stainless/Ti bike that will last for years for training etc and saving the Super Six for race day but the minister for war and finance doesn't quite see things my way

Pictures like the ones above and the De Rosa earlier don't help either...

Well if you could come to a resolution with the 'powers that be', I'm sure you've heard of Baum Cycles, in your neck of the woods.

 

[Notso Swift]

"His neck of the woods" is further than the distance from you to mexico...


And if he was worried about price before, wow. I have a Cyfac XCR coming for half the price of a Baum, considering the bloke who does the welding at Cyfac has frames that have one all the GT's in the palmares...

 

[Fiemme]

Baums are rather expensive so are Llewellyn's which are in his 'neck of the woods'. Both produce good quality bikes but as Notso Swift says you can get just as good for a lot less.

I'm a part-time frame builder and know how much time and effort is put into making a good quality frame. But somtimes the price some builders are charging for custom frames really does make one think just how much the average joe is getting ripped off.

 

[Llewellyn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiemme View Post
I'm a part-time frame builder and know how much time and effort is put into making a good quality frame. But sometimes the price some builders are charging for custom frames really does make one think just how much the average joe is getting ripped off.
Nowhere near as ripped off for things like a Specialised Venge or the other halo bikes that are churned out by the big names.

But we've had that discussion elsewhere in this forum and I don't want to re-ignite it here.

Considering the quality of the finished product I think a Llewellyn represents excellent value for money. Granted - not cheap but definitely not outrageously expensive either IMO when stacked up against what you can buy off the peg. I don't know about Baum as I haven't checked those out.

 

[Llewellyn]

I'm a part-time frame builder and know how much time and effort is put into making a good quality frame. But somtimes the price some builders are charging for custom frames really does make one think just how much the average joe is getting ripped off.

Nowhere near as ripped off for things like a Specialised Venge or the other halo bikes that are churned out by the big names.

But we've had that discussion elsewhere in this forum and I don't want to re-ignite it here.

Considering the quality of the finished product I think a Llewellyn represents excellent value for money. Granted - not cheap but definitely not outrageously expensive either IMO when stacked up against what you can buy off the peg. I don't know about Baum as I haven't checked those out.

 

[LugHugger]

Nowhere near as ripped off for things like a Specialised Venge or the other halo bikes that are churned out by the big names.

But we've had that discussion elsewhere in this forum and I don't want to re-ignite it here.

Considering the quality of the finished product I think a Llewellyn represents excellent value for money. Granted - not cheap but definitely not outrageously expensive either IMO when stacked up against what you can buy off the peg. I don't know about Baum as I haven't checked those out.

Sorry but atmo no steel bicycle frame is worthy of a US$4,500+ pricetag and could never be considered 'excellent value for money'

 

[42x16ss]

Nowhere near as ripped off for things like a Specialised Venge or the other halo bikes that are churned out by the big names.

But we've had that discussion elsewhere in this forum and I don't want to re-ignite it here.

Considering the quality of the finished product I think a Llewellyn represents excellent value for money. Granted - not cheap but definitely not outrageously expensive either IMO when stacked up against what you can buy off the peg. I don't know about Baum as I haven't checked those out.

Both Baum and Llewellyn have superb craftmanship on their bikes and produce full custom geometry. They certainly aren't the best value for money as Fiemme has said but they are exceptionally well made.

I'd take either in a heartbeat over almost any "halo" bike - especially the new Specialized.

Also it's a 2000km + flight from here to Melbourne...

 

[pedaling squares]

Also it's a 2000km + flight from here to Melbourne...

Flight? That's a road trip right there!

 

[Fiemme]

Both Baum and Llewellyn have superb craftmanship on their bikes and produce full custom geometry. They certainly aren't the best value for money as Fiemme has said but they are exceptionally well made.

I'd take either in a heartbeat over almost any "halo" bike - especially the new Specialized.

Also it's a 2000km + flight from here to Melbourne...

As a part time builder I can build a full custom 853 reynolds with Stainless dropouts, front derailleur hanger and brake bridge for AUD$2600.00. Quality is comparable to a Llewellyn. View yourself at the link below.
However I don't rely frame building as my main source of income. But AUD$4300.00 as Llewellyn has posted on his website is a little steep. One would have thought that it would be better to price a complete bike build and offset the labour costs of the frame build on the group build. This way a complete bike price will be comparable to a top end, top brand bike.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/51534746@N07/

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Sorry but atmo no steel bicycle frame is worthy of a US$4,500+ pricetag and could never be considered 'excellent value for money'

http://www.waterfordbikes.com

Stainless $3300, R-33-$2200..both custom..

 

[LugHugger]

http://www.waterfordbikes.com

Stainless $3300, R-33-$2200..both custom..

Voila. Same here. Now that's excellent value for money.

 

[Fiemme]

The waterford and enigma are a perfect example of good quality for reasonable price. That Stainless Steel waterford with the mirror finish and pin striping would have required quite alot of labour. I've worked with Stainless Steel and it is not the easiest material to work with. Very easy to tig weld but quite difficult to braze. Good even heat control is required while brazing. Also the Stainless Steel is very difficult to cold set.

All in all very good quality bikes at reasonable prices. Which makes me wonder what some of the frame builders here in Australia are doing when pricing steel frames at $4k plus.

The notion of 'steel is real' has caused alot of heated debate in the past. However one thing I know from riding both carbon and steel is that the ride is identical. Do not assumme that a correctly fitted steel bike is any different than a correctly fitted carbon bike. The only difference is durability. A steel frame will still have its structural integrity in tack with a dent in the top tube. A carbon bike will need to be repaired. If you are a home mechanic the likely hood of damaging your steel bike is a lot less than damaging a carbon bike from over tightening clamp bolts. And yes I have seen steel bikes damaged from overtighting of clamp bolts.

And when you leave your bike on top of the car and drive into the garage the Steel frame has a greater chance of survival than a carbon bike. My brother is a good example of this notion. Had his bike on top of the car on two occasions. One when he drove into the garage and one when he got 'T' boned running a red light. Bike survived both accidents (or bone head moments)

 

[LugHugger]

snip

All in all very good quality bikes at reasonable prices. Which makes me wonder what some of the frame builders here in Australia are doing when pricing steel frames at $4k plus.

snip

It's not just Aussie's. There are Italian and American builders overcharging for manipulating $250-300 worth of Reynolds/Columbus/True Temper raw material (I'm sure that there are other nationalities too but none spring to mind immediately). Unfortunately, steel has joined the trend towards commoditisation over the last 5 years.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Let's be fair when doing some of these price comparisons.

Warranties vary and if a custom builder goes the extra mile with lifetime warranty/super crash replacement vs a 2-5 year material defect warranty with extra conditions will rightly affect the retail cost. The latter is quite a bit cheaper than the former.

The other part of this is how good the shop is at marketing themselves and face-to-face sales abilities. These are critical skills bordering on talent that affect price.

 

[LugHugger]

Let's be fair when doing some of these price comparisons.

Warranties vary and if a custom builder goes the extra mile with lifetime warranty/super crash replacement vs a 2-5 year material defect warranty with extra conditions will rightly affect the retail cost. The latter is quite a bit cheaper than the former.

The other part of this is how good the shop is at marketing themselves and face-to-face sales abilities. These are critical skills bordering on talent that affect price.

I take your point on warranty values but marketing and sales are not indicative of value only of the buyers gullibility.

 

[simo1733]

How about one of these.
http://www.brianrourke.co.uk/rourke-reynolds-953-cycle-frameset-p-245.html?cPath=86