Is steel still real?

[Fiemme]

Let's be fair when doing some of these price comparisons.

Warranties vary and if a custom builder goes the extra mile with lifetime warranty/super crash replacement vs a 2-5 year material defect warranty with extra conditions will rightly affect the retail cost. The latter is quite a bit cheaper than the former.


Lifetime warranties generally only cover 'Maunufacturing Defects'. A good quality frame builder will eliminate defects during the manufacturing process if they follow good frame building practices. Whether it be Steel, Titanium, Aluminium or Carbon. I personally do not believe in the notion of a lifetime warranty. Nothing is perfect and nothing will last for ever. To prove a frame broke by a manufacturing defect or whether that same breakage was cause by general fatigue is almost impossible.

Try taking a 20 year old Trek back for a warranty repair. I don't like your chances.

 

[DirtyWorks]

A good quality frame builder will eliminate defects during the manufacturing process if they follow good frame building practices.

Well, this is where we differ then. Welding is not exact. I know the beads are pretty, but maybe the rig is running a little hot, wire speed a little too slow. There's a million little things that can and do go wrong when working with some of these fragile alloys. And there's your cracked frame that's due to workmanship....

Whether it be Steel, Titanium, Aluminium or Carbon. I personally do not believe in the notion of a lifetime warranty. Nothing is perfect and nothing will last for ever. To prove a frame broke by a manufacturing defect or whether that same breakage was cause by general fatigue is almost impossible.
Try taking a 20 year old Trek back for a warranty repair. I don't like your chances.

Much of this gets down to the shop's practices on servicing older customers if they've been around that long. Some builders will do you a favor on a 20 year old frame set that's failed. It just depends on the circumstances. If you can be flexible, the few I've dealt with are happy to deal. Some clearly won't/don't with a limited warranty.

Using Trek as an example is an apples and oranges comparison in this context.

 

[Fiemme]

Dirtyworks you are exactly right welding is not exact art so how can a manufacturer offer a lifetime warranty on that basis. If weld feed is to slow or current to high and creates imperfections in the weld, quality evaluation should pick this up and the frame should never make it out of the workshop. As for the difference in the alloys in the tubes then the frame builder should correspond with the tube manufacturer to find the most suitable technique to join the tubes.

Good manufcaturing practices and good frame building ethics will elliminate poor workmanship.

As for the bike shop providing good service to its customer I agree. But it is the manufacturer providing the warranty not the bike shop. The bike shop can do all they want to help the customer, in the end if the manufacturer says NO to a warranty claim then there is nothing the bike shop can do except fork out for the warranty themselves to save goodwill.

Yes using Trek as an example was poor judgement. How about every mainsteam brand that provides a lifetime warranty.

 

[DirtyWorks]

...quality evaluation should pick this up and the frame should never make it out of the workshop.

It's just not that simple.

 

[Boeing]

I just sold my Raleigh XXIX SS. what a great riding bike that was. pure cromo

 

[Fiemme]

Dirty works you are right it is not that simple. There is always human error. I can get a little rude somtimes trying to prove a point and I do apologise if I came across alittle aggresive (Just ask the wife).

As I pointed out the maunfacturer will argue over a warranty claim and proving whether the frame failed due to workmanship/manufacturing defaults is hard to prove. As I argued, the manufacturer will revert back to quality evaluation protocols that would or should pick up any defects before the frame leaves the factory. This is why Lifetime warranties should not be taken into account when purchasing any bicycle frame.

 

[drb716]

groupset?

I've narrowed my frame choice to Tommasini Tecno or Ciocc San Cristobal, but I'm still undecided on groupsets: Campagnolo Record 11 or Athena 11. I've read a few reviews that suggest Athena's not what it used to be in terms of quality, but the price still makes it tempting.
Are quality and weight savings enough to justify Record?
Any experience with carbon crank longevity issues?