Italy: "After the storm, the Tsunami."

[Race Radio]

. Nobody has proven Lance a liar.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=2669&highlight=armstrong+lies

 

[Ferminal]

Can Lance posts please be made in the Lance thread. Although Armstrong is a player here, we would like to keep this thread more about the unfolding story and free of the usual rhetoric.

 

[Barrus]

Can Lance posts please be made in the Lance thread. Although Armstrong is a player here, we would like to keep this thread more about the unfolding story and free of the usual rhetoric.

To add, off course stuff that is contained within the developing story that directly concerns Armstrong can be posted, if there is any new information that is about Armstrong. The same old tired debate as in many other threads is however not allowed, keep those Armstrong discussion and small stuff about Armstrong in other threads

 

[JPM London]

...and later where Mr. Fabiani responds with:

"There they go again: Government sources are leaking inaccurate rumours to create the false impression that this taxpayer-money-wasting fishing expedition actually has a purpose,” he said in the communication.

And what on earth is an "inaccurate rumour"? This must mean that the rumour is almost correct Not to mention: How do you leak a rumour?

Fabi could certainly use some media training from Pat...


EDIT: Ok, can see my comment was hardly news in this thread - must be getting old, can't keep up anylonger...

 

[Pantani_lives]

Good article on Cyclingnews, in case you haven't read it yet:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/arm...onship-probed-in-italian-doping-investigation

If they want evidence against Armstrong, this is the way to go. His collaboration with Ferrari was crucial in his seven TdF wins.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Can you help me out here a little as I´m feeling pedantical this morning?

I´m struggling with these "many meanings" of the word proven based on the context your original post and your follow on response using context as clarification.

prove |proōv|
verb ( past part. proved or proven |ˈproōvən|)
1[/b] [ trans. ] demonstrate the truth or existence of (something) by evidence or argument : the concept is difficult to prove | [as adj. ] ( proven) a proven ability to work hard.
• [ trans. ] demonstrate by evidence or argument (someone or something) to be : innocent until proven guilty.
• Law establish the genuineness and validity of (a will).
• (in homeopathy) demonstrate the action of (a remedy) by seeing what effect it produces in a healthy individual.
• [ intrans. ] be seen or found to be : the plan has proved a great success.
• ( prove oneself) demonstrate one's abilities or courage : a new lieutenant, very green and very desperate to prove himself.
• [ trans. ] rare test the accuracy of (a mathematical calculation).
• subject (a gun or other item) to a testing process.
2 [ intrans. ] (of bread dough) become aerated by the action of yeast; rise.


When you say "many meanings" are you referring to the different levels of proof in a court of law as opposed to the actual different meanings of the word proven?

Because based on the context of your post, proven has really only one meaning.

Or were you referring to bread dough?

mmmph! LOL I enjoyed this post this morning.

I also think this Ferrari investigation is just beginning to unfold.

 

[palmerq]

Maybe this is the reason karpets cut off the mullet, no one will recognise him... What a great plan...

What a shame though I like katusha so I hope none of their guys have done anything dodgy, although I am a bit suspicious of karpets, I think he is just too big to do anything in the grandtours without drugs. I don't think his performances have been suspicious whilst at katusha maybe they are looking at what he did before he went there.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Maybe this is the reason karpets cut off the mullet, no one will recognise him... What a great plan...

Also makes giving a hair sample less dangerous.

 

[blackcat]

Also makes giving a hair sample less dangerous.

hey MJM, just time before they get Scandri and his personal hobbit?

 

[thehog]

Thanks, Hog.

A few things of note.

Ferrari is the Don. He's a bigger catch than Armstrong. The Italians have wanted him for years but were too embarrassed to strike again after the last case was pulled on a technicality. Now Nov-hunter has given them the "in" and they're willing to go after him again.

If you want to prove team wide doping at USPS then Ferrari is your link. Knab him and it all sticks together.

To prove the Armstrong "professional" link to Ferrari they've sort payment records. Enter Swiss connection.

Ferrari keeps all his records. He never destroyed any of it.

Finally the Catlin program. At the same time Armstrong was announcing his personal anti-doping program he was already consulting with Ferrari. Thanks for the emails AoL. They were xxxxxxx.

Whether we love Lance or not. He's an addict. Addicted to dope & his performance. He was never very careful about covering his tracks. He just beat up on people so they wouldnt talk.

 

[D-Queued]

A few things of note.

Ferrari is the Don. He's a bigger catch than Armstrong. The Italians have wanted him for years but were too embarrassed to strike again after the last case was pulled on a technicality. Now Nov-hunter has given them the "in" and they're willing to go after him again.

If you want to prove team wide doping at USPS then Ferrari is your link. Knab him and it all sticks together.

To prove the Armstrong "professional" link to Ferrari they've sort payment records. Enter Swiss connection.

Ferrari keeps all his records. He never destroyed any of it.

Finally the Catlin program. At the same time Armstrong was announcing his personal anti-doping program he was already consulting with Ferrari. Thanks for the emails AoL. They were xxxxxxx.

Whether we love Lance or not. He's an addict. Addicted to dope & his performance. He was never very careful about covering his tracks. He just beat up on people so they wouldnt talk.

Good points.

Even though it is obvious who the marquee client is, this is bigger than Lance.

And, without wanting to divert the thread further (honest), your allegations about Lance deserve some supportive evidence and context lest they become contested:

"Addicted to performance" and
"Never very careful about covering up his tracks"

3. NEED FOR STIMULATION or PRONENESS TO BOREDOM -- an excessive need for novel, thrilling, and exciting stimulation; taking chances and doing things that are risky. Sociopaths often have low self-discipline in carrying tasks through to completion because they get bored easily. They fail to work at the same job for any length of time, for example, or to finish tasks that they consider dull or routine

(...kerosene tennis balls...return of hope...use of PEDs...)

"Beat up on people"

10. POOR BEHAVIORAL CONTROLS -- expressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse; inadequate control of anger and temper; acting hastily

(...VandeVelde, Landis, Simeoni, Betsy, Novitzky, **** Pound, The French...)

Dave.

 

[Barrus]

Again, for the debating and discussion of Armstrong, OUTSIDE of the exact confines of the current Italian investigation, which might have something to do with Ferrari, go to existing Armstrong threads, or create a new Armstrong thread

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Maybe this is the reason karpets cut off the mullet, no one will recognise him... What a great plan...

What a shame though I like katusha so I hope none of their guys have done anything dodgy, although I am a bit suspicious of karpets, I think he is just too big to do anything in the grandtours without drugs. I don't think his performances have been suspicious whilst at katusha maybe they are looking at what he did before he went there.

Yea certainly 2007 was the only time I've really thought his performances were especially suspicious, though to be fair that was a very weak Vuelta route that he top 10ed and he won the Tour de Suisse more with consistency than superhuman performance.

On the other hand, saying that you hope none of the Katyusha guys has done anything dodgy is kinda wishful thinking considering Toni Colóm and Christian Pfannberger have both raced for them, and they gave a spot to Danilo di Luca.

 

[roundabout]

OT: Signing Pfannberger was pretty darn stupid.

OTOH given his fondness for doping I doubt he needed help from Katusha or any of his other teams

 

[D-Queued]

Again, for the debating and discussion of Armstrong, OUTSIDE of the exact confines of the current Italian investigation, which might have something to do with Ferrari, go to existing Armstrong threads, or create a new Armstrong thread

Did you delete my post?

I am ok with that, and agree with your statement. But, I just wanted to know since I will have to recreate the research all over again.

Dave.

 

[flicker]

We sure have a lot of people touting the GIRO as a great race, I wonder why? Cunego is just awesome.

Why no spectacular results for Mr. Cunego lately, crushed red corpusles? r could it be he needs a little nutter butter on his wheetabix?

 

[flicker]

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=2669&highlight=armstrong+lies

Your obsesion with Armstrong is legendary, please, keep up your great work.

 

[Polish]

Your obsesion with Armstrong is legendary, please, keep up your great work.

Flicker, seriously, can you think of other riders that are worthy of Obsession?
Fausto? Eddy? Jacques? Bernard? Herman Van Springel?
Select few for sure.

Anyway, off to spring break....

 

[flicker]

Flicker, seriously, can you think of other riders that are worthy of Obsession?
Fausto? Eddy? Jacques? Bernard? Herman Van Springel?
Select few for sure.

Anyway, off to spring break....

Not really, but I do like Henk Luberding. As a matter of fact I am seeing how many yellow armbands I can fit around my cat Mr. Biglesworth. I have a LIVESTRONG SCULPTURE car on the drawing boards for the 2014 BURNING MAN, you know it has a secret motorcycle hidden inside with the refrigerated panniers.

 

[gatete]

so much for a smiley face tattoo

I was reading last year's Pro Cycling magazine featuring Cunego, and they quote: "Dopers get more television space than winners, these riders should re-enter through the servant's door, not to be extended a red carpet.

and they have a picture of him talking with basso at the worlds 2009 where he's sporting a "drug free smiling rub on tattoo" ( I guess the rub on choice is a good one since you never know when you're gonna get caught)

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I had a thought about this earlier, which came from a fear about what would happen today.

Why on earth was Danilo di Luca's suspension shortened? They were talking about maybe giving him the additional year for aggravating circumstances back in '09. He has previous and should have been facing a lifetime ban. But instead he got time taken off and is back racing now for co-operation.

Though he did sign for Katyusha and given that they're now at the centre of this that would have been a sure fire way to make yourself unpopular.

 

[webvan]

Now is probably a good time to remember the allegations made by Tchmill concerning Menchov's "cleanliness"...no TDF for him in 2011 but at least he's not associated with a team under "investigation".

 

[Barrus]

I had a thought about this earlier, which came from a fear about what would happen today.

Why on earth was Danilo di Luca's suspension shortened? They were talking about maybe giving him the additional year for aggravating circumstances back in '09. He has previous and should have been facing a lifetime ban. But instead he got time taken off and is back racing now for co-operation.

Though he did sign for Katyusha and given that they're now at the centre of this that would have been a sure fire way to make yourself unpopular.

If I am not mistaken he himself had stated he had helped by describing methods in which doping was used which might be helpful in detecting doping, he specifically stated that he had not named names. But it did never get any more specific than this

 

[JPM London]

If I am not mistaken he himself had stated he had helped by describing methods in which doping was used which might be helpful in detecting doping, he specifically stated that he had not named names. But it did never get any more specific than this

Yes, and he very specifically named someone (Ballan?) as someone he had not named - you could easily think that alone said more than naming someone for real

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If I am not mistaken he himself had stated he had helped by describing methods in which doping was used which might be helpful in detecting doping, he specifically stated that he had not named names. But it did never get any more specific than this

That seems fair enough.

Though admittedly, he wouldn't exactly blurt from the rooftops "I have helped with the foundation work for the biggest doping bust operation in the history of the sport" if he had been involved, because it wouldn't exactly augur well for his comeback. I mean, Sella was unpopular, spat at upon his return and even came out to say he wasn't involved in some minor bust in Italy a while back because he is allegedly often the default villain in the national scene whenever a doping bust occurs. We would be talking that, but on a much, much larger scale.

I rather hope di Luca didn't give loads of information, in a weird way. The guy just radiates sleaze and I can't possibly fathom him as a born-again white knight.