Italy: "After the storm, the Tsunami."

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python

python

Sep 25, 2009
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the reports about the police visits to just obtain bio-passport data seem light to me.

why to waste money on special trips if the data could have been transferred electronically. besides, if i was interested in the bio-passport only, i would go to the uci or wada for the records because, according to my information, the teams and the athletes have access to only one half the bio-pass TOTAL data set.

:confused:
 
Race Radio

Race Radio

Aug 13, 2009
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Recently we have seen multiple riders get reduced suspensions for giving information.....yet we seldom hear about what that information is. Unlike WADA sanctions criminal investigations take much longer and are done in a more secretive manner.
 
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jimmypop

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Jul 16, 2010
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For those who say it's a waste of time to investigate Sir Lanceypants:

However it appears Roberti's role in the coordinated investigation into Lance Armstrong by Novitzky has lead him to target the activities of Dr Ferrari and his possible links to some of the sports leading riders.
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http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/is-dr-ferrari-at-the-centre-of-latest-italian-doping-investigation

I'm beginning to think that putting Armstrong as the hub of a sport-wide doping investigation and moving outward is going to reap benefits.
 
E

ergmonkey

Aug 11, 2009
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Race Radio said:
...
-Bertagnolli,Gusev, Karpets linked to Ferrari...
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Do we know if any of this relates to Gusev's behavior (distribution?) while he was sort-of-suspended-not-able-to-get-a-team? A fella's gotta make a living somehow...
 
Race Radio

Race Radio

Aug 13, 2009
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jimmypop

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Jul 16, 2010
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Race Radio said:
You would be correct. Anyone that thinks this is small time and will eventually go away is making a big mistake.
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Does Armstrong have anything to gain (in terms of securing his legal future) by squealing?
 
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jimmypop

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Jul 16, 2010
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Race Radio said:
To do so he would actually have to know what his legal future is. :D
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Point taken! Tough to bargain when one doesn't know what one is bargaining for or against.
 
Hampsten88

Hampsten88

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Apr 12, 2011
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python said:
the reports about the police visits to just obtain bio-passport data seem light to me.

why to waste money on special trips if the data could have been transferred electronically. besides, if i was interested in the bio-passport only, i would go to the uci or wada for the records because, according to my information, the teams and the athletes have access to only one half the bio-pass TOTAL data set.

:confused:
Click to expand...

Perhaps to be able to compare what the teams and riders are claiming and what UCI or WADA have. They might be trying to catch teams rather then individual riders or a doctor.
 
DirtyWorks

DirtyWorks

Feb 10, 2010
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sniper said:
True, but if I read RR's post correctly, the investigation is not directed against cyclists or cycling in particular, but against networks of PED-dealers. So how come that, again, we end up with a bunch of cyclists under suspition? Where are the footbalplayers?

I agree very much that football is dirty as hell, and dirtier than any of us can tell.
But I'm hypothesizing about a continuum here that goes from dirty (footbal/tennis), to dirtier (Spanish footbal/tennis;)), to dirtiest (cycling).
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I'll tell you where the footballers are, hiding safely behind their federation. The federation knowing full-well they are a source of many good things for governments. That's part of the calculations being made in law enforcement. Cycling is much smaller that way. Easier target. I'm okay with that though.

Your continuum includes any sport where the athletes can afford a doping program. If the sport is big enough money to fund the athlete and her agents, manager, lawyers, then I'm sure the sport has advanced doping. That's not saying 'all pro athletes dope.' That's not true. But, it's a broad continuum with some bad apples pushing the human limit with doping using an 'end justifies the means' excuse to make it okay.
 
Benotti69

Benotti69

May 26, 2010
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DirtyWorks said:
I'll tell you where the footballers are, hiding safely behind their federation. The federation knowing full-well they are a source of many good things for governments. That's part of the calculations being made in law enforcement. Cycling is much smaller that way. Easier target. I'm okay with that though.

Your continuum includes any sport where the athletes can afford a doping program. If the sport is big enough money to fund the athlete and her agents, manager, lawyers, then I'm sure the sport has advanced doping. That's not saying 'all pro athletes dope.' That's not true. But, it's a broad continuum with some bad apples pushing the human limit with doping using an 'end justifies the means' excuse to make it okay.
Click to expand...

well when you have the prime minister of Italy owning the biggest football club in the land it is not going to happen yet. But don't be surprised if they do have a go in the future when Berlusconi is gone.
 
hfer07

hfer07

Mar 17, 2009
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python said:
the reports about the police visits to just obtain bio-passport data seem light to me.

why to waste money on special trips if the data could have been transferred electronically. besides, if i was interested in the bio-passport only, i would go to the uci or wada for the records because, according to my information, the teams and the athletes have access to only one half the bio-pass TOTAL data set.

:confused:
Click to expand...

Unless what the riders get from UCI/WADA are only "parameters" to meet, so they don't go overboard with the doping. but as you said- why bother to contact the riders for that data, instead of the main source? maybe they know UCI/WADA are useless since "trafficking" is out of their jurisdiction-and somehow they try to match the dates on some riders with spikes on blood values with purchases of PED's ....
 
DirtyWorks

DirtyWorks

Feb 10, 2010
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hfer07 said:
Unless what the riders get from UCI/WADA are only "parameters" to meet, so they don't go overboard with the doping. but as you said- why bother to contact the riders for that data, instead of the main source? maybe they know UCI/WADA are useless since "trafficking" is out of their jurisdiction-and somehow they try to match the dates on some riders with spikes on blood values with purchases of PED's ....
Click to expand...

My guess is it's a jurisdiction issue first. An Italian law enforcement agency would have to be authorized to ask the Swiss-based federation and/or WADA. I imagine that to be a big deal inside an agency. They may discover 1/2 the information may be useless in building a case, but they have it. Who knows how it might be useful.
 
MarkvW

MarkvW

Aug 10, 2010
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speculation

Some theories:

The feds would never give up information to a bunch of foreign law enforcement agencies if the release would in any way hinder or harm their investigation. They are Zeus and you are an inferior being.

This tends to indicate that any USPS investigation regarding doping abroad has gone as far as the feds can take it alone. After all this time, there's either sealed indictments pertaining to team doping (and associated fraud) or nothing (my bet is nothing).

That Katusha rider's mafia reference really ****es me off. (David Stern (NBA President) would make him pay a ten trillion dollar fine for bringing his sport into such disrepute). I take the mafia reference as a direct attempt at communicating with the doctor. He is a middleman with keys to many doors. Some people respond to threats unpredictably. Anything is possible.

This is way more interesting than Festina!
 
S

skippythepinhead

Feb 22, 2011
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MarkvW said:
Some theories:

The feds would never give up information to a bunch of foreign law enforcement agencies if the release would in any way hinder or harm their investigation. They are Zeus and you are an inferior being.

This tends to indicate that any USPS investigation regarding doping abroad has gone as far as the feds can take it alone. After all this time, there's either sealed indictments pertaining to team doping (and associated fraud) or nothing (my bet is nothing).

That Katusha rider's mafia reference really ****es me off. (David Stern (NBA President) would make him pay a ten trillion dollar fine for bringing his sport into such disrepute). I take the mafia reference as a direct attempt at communicating with the doctor. He is a middleman with keys to many doors. Some people respond to threats unpredictably. Anything is possible.

This is way more interesting than Festina!
Click to expand...

The feds would give information if they knew the results would aid their investigation and corroborate their set of facts/evidence. A time factor may have come into play as well as the desire to get statements from riders who may for one reason or another not be available to American investigators.

"After all this time." It hasn't really been that long. The ink isn't dry on the office pool so it's not quite time for bets. The only limitations on time would be statutes of limitation, so if those are coming up, that might help explain the big push.

David Stern is the Don of basketball, enforcing the league-wide omerta. If you want his arbitrary limitations of speech and criticism to be the model for any other sport, I feel for you man.

Though I agree this could be way way more interesting than Festina if the house of cards falls the way it looks to be falling.
 
thehog

thehog

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Jul 27, 2009
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Looks like Ferrari and Armstrong are going down the "close family friends" route. Not like the Doctor to comment on anything. Well I never.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ca...qM5gQJvJUhCALWY9sr7cFUSIJSDvPSQ?docId=6574054

ROME — A high-ranking Italian law enforcement official tells The Associated Press that Lance Armstrong and a banned physician have met repeatedly since severing formal ties in 2004, including as recently as last year before Armstrong's final Tour de France.

The official, who is not authorized to speak publicly because the inquiry is still underway, tells the AP that Armstrong met with Ferrari frequently over the past several years, usually in St. Moritz, Switzerland, or Monte Carlo, Monaco.

Ferrari had worked with the seven-time Tour winner for several years before their 2004 split.

Reached at his home on Friday, Ferrari was asked when he last saw Armstrong. "When, last year? Look, right now I don't remember," he said, "but I haven't had a professional relationship with Mr. Armstrong for a long time."

An Armstrong spokesman had no immediate comment but planned to make a statement later. The cyclist has always denied doping.
 
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jimmypop

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Jul 16, 2010
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thehog said:
Reached at his home on Friday, Ferrari was asked when he last saw Armstrong. "When, last year? Look, right now I don't remember," he said, "but I haven't had a professional relationship with Mr. Armstrong for a long time."

An Armstrong spokesman had no immediate comment but planned to make a statement later. The cyclist has always denied doping.
Click to expand...

Emphasis on professional, I'm sure.

Settling in for some entertaining spin, wish it wasn't Friday (media black hole).

popcorn.gif
 
Benotti69

Benotti69

May 26, 2010
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really shows how the press now view Gunderson. He really has a massive fight on his hands as the media seem to have finally swung onto the idea of no smoke without fire and it will always be that way for the future. It will require a real miracle to change that now.
 
cat6cx

cat6cx

Feb 1, 2011
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"Government sources are leaking inaccurate rumors to create the false impression that this taxpayer-money-wasting fishing expedition actually has a purpose," Fabiani said.

Didn't he mean "Gubment"?

That could be the greatest single sentence talking point combo of all time. No wonder that guy get's the big bucks.
 
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