Jail time for Lance? Thoughts peeps?

[Darryl Webster]

Should Lance go to Jail?. When Marion Jones received 6 months for her part in the BALCO scandal some might argue justice was served.
By comparison with Armstrong I,d argue Marion,s crimes were quite minor league.
If you agree Armstrong should serve time what kind of sentence would forum members deem appropriate ?.
If you don't agree he should serve time what reasons would you give for that conclusion?

 

[Franklin]

Trafficking drugs in France? Hard to proof even with this report.

Criminal justice is a lot more demanding in it's evidence (that's a good thing).

 

[The Hitch]

I don't think lance has perjured himself like Jones did. He hasn't been given the opportunity.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I don't think lance has perjured himself like Jones did. He hasn't been given the opportunity.

What about the SCA case?

 

[cineteq]

- He should go to jail since he's the biggest fraud in sports.
- He took advantage of Cancer people and made loads of money at the expense of them.
- He was a drug trafficker and ringleader.

I don't understand the comparison to Marion Jones, no contest.

Should Lance go to Jail?. When Marion Jones received 6 months for her part in the BALCO scandal some might argue justice was served.

 

[Franklin]

- He should go to jail since he's the biggest fraud in sports.

Is that criminal or simply morally deplorable?

- He took advantage of Cancer people and made loads of money at the expense of them.

Not criminal (and hugely morally deplorable)

- He was a drug trafficker and ringleader.

The evidence for either seems relatively thin. Keep in mind that criminal courts have higher standards of evidence. Also, Lance was rider, JB was manager. His doctors gave him the juice.

I'm not a lawyer, but there is quite a lot of room to shift blame or feign ignorance.

The only hard evidence is the payments to Ferrari. And yeah, that should be enough to get him sanctioned. and considering these things are usually arbitration the testimonials will be enough to bury him. But in a court of law this will be fought tooth and nail to a different tune.

No, I'm not seeing jailtime as a possible outcome yet.

 

[Bosco10]

I don't think lance has perjured himself like Jones did. He hasn't been given the opportunity.

Marion Jones actually committed perjury twice: once about her PED use, and once about her role in a check-cashing scheme. Jones is a fascinating character in her own right. She is charismatic, well-spoken, bright, cheerful.. and a pathological liar. Marion still claims she thought the steroids were flaxseed oil, and that she was essentially an innocent lamb at the mercy of her coach. Hinky Meter alert.

 

[Old School]

Jones was a part of the Balco crew...and being that I remember some detailed proof in that fiasco, I believe there was more hard evidence against her, and folks who testified who had pulled time (Conte, Bond's fall guy too)....

So, I think the courts had more to convict her on, and the check cashing thing (which her husband at the time went down for as well) was pretty strong...don't know if the evidence is as strong against Pharmstrong...they would need detailed (written) doping schedules with his name I would think....

And the trafficking conviction would need more proof.....not that I don't think it's out there.

If they can get the Hog to roll over (take a plea) then I believe they COULD get Liar Lance to go behind bars.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Trafficking drugs in France? Hard to proof even with this report.

Criminal justice is a lot more demanding in it's evidence (that's a good thing).

800 pages are yet missing. I hope he goes to jail for this. one thing is sure. he will never become president

but even more so I hope bruyneel goes to prison

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

- He should go to jail since he's the biggest fraud in sports.
- He took advantage of Cancer people and made loads of money at the expense of them.
- He was a drug trafficker and ringleader.

I don't understand the comparison to Marion Jones, no contest.

exactly. aren't their the rico laws in usa? this seems some serious organized crime, set up by bruyneel and lance. nothing short of maffia

 

[Cloxxki]

If his crimes don't deserve jail time, we need to let a lot of people go and compensate them for the mistake we make locking them up.

 

[Franklin]

800 pages are yet missing. I hope he goes to jail for this. one thing is sure. he will never become president

but even more so I hope bruyneel goes to prison

* Note that I certainly think the guy is guilty as sin on all charges written here and that the affidavits are mostly correct.

Unless I'm completely misstaken it's corroboration on the condensed version. The best hard evidence are the Ferrari payments, everything else are lab results and sworn affidavits.

Consider we don't have the contraband (gone and used), we don't have an explicit picture of Lance smuggling stuff and unless I missed it the only case of trafficiking was when Lance posted Epo to known liar Hamilton. Every other case was either Moto-man or Pepe Marti doing the actual smuggling. I'm seeing quite some grounds for a good fight if they are claiming he organized smuggle.

On the Lance pulling the strings we have more, but even then it's "It was clear to me he was the boss"; all in all they gave people a choice (yes, with the proverbial gun at their head)and did it behind closed doors.

I personally see that clearly Lance is the kingpin, but once again I also see him roll it all towards the management and the doctors.... and it's damned hard to proof. Considering all we read about the doctors and Bruyneel he can make the story he was just being pulled along.

All big fat lies if you consider his character, but it's an extremely difficult case to close. Perhaps if the French start a case against him using drugs when in France they could make it stick.

The doping case is much easier: Ferrari payments, arbitration with the sworn affidavits. Slam-dunk.

 

[kurtinsc]

I think the only thing that can get him put in jail in the US is if there is enough proof to show that he was the one behind the trafficing of the drugs... distributing prescription drugs illegally.

Barring that, it's unlikely. Simply using (or telling others to use) is not going to get him arrested. All of the dopers in the US who've gone to jail (or even just gone to trial) have been relating to lying under oath... not actual use of PED's.

If a doctor writes a prescription, there's nothing illegal for an athelete to use PED's. It may be against the rules of their sport, but not against US law.

 

[pelodee]

Should Lance go to Jail?...
If you don't agree he should serve time what reasons would you give for that conclusion?

If he served time that would mean numerous books about how HE survived prison-life because of HIMSELF (despite evidence that he was helped by prison governors and staff as HE 'worked HIS way to the top').

It would also mean starting up a charity to help raise awareness of prison conditions (despite evidence that it serves himself, wastes money and diverts valuable time and money away from organizations which have years of experience).

And it would mean people wearing bits of plastic around their wrists (despite evidence they were made with prison labour...which he could of course make people aware of by setting up another laundering service).

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Marion Jones actually committed perjury twice: once about her PED use, and once about her role in a check-cashing scheme. Jones is a fascinating character in her own right. She is charismatic, well-spoken, bright, cheerful.. and a pathological liar. Marion still claims she thought the steroids were flaxseed oil, and that she was essentially an innocent lamb at the mercy of her coach. Hinky Meter alert.

Agreed, if Lance emerges as the singlets biggest fraud in sports history Jones would push her close.

 

[kurtinsc]

If you don't agree he should serve time what reasons would you give for that conclusion?

In the end I don't really care if he serves time or not.

While cheating at sports bothers me as a fan of sports... as a tax paying citizen it doesn't register as that big a priority.

Yes, things like perjury and trafficing illegal drugs do need to be punished. But I put crimes relating to cheating at a sport way down the list in terms of stuff I want the US law enforcement system to work hard at cracking down on. When I see the government spending millions on trying to put a Barry Bonds or Roger Clemmens in jail for lying about drug use... I do wonder if those dollars could be better spent going after people committing sex crimes, people pushing drugs on children or companies that are comitting unethical practices that screw people out of their retirements.

If it's a slam dunk... then yeah, prosecute him and put him away. If it's going to cost 50 million dollars to prosecute the case... then just let it drop. Punishing him for cheating while riding his bike (and helping others cheat while riding their bikes) is not worth that kind of expenditure.

 

[cineteq]

Yes, things like perjury and trafficing illegal drugs do need to be punished. But I put crimes relating to cheating at a sport way down the list in terms of stuff I want the US law enforcement system to work hard at cracking down on. W

So being a thieve doesn't get punished in the USA? I guess being the new Robin Hood exempt him from serving time.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

In the end I don't really care if he serves time or not.

While cheating at sports bothers me as a fan of sports... as a tax paying citizen it doesn't register as that big a priority.

Yes, things like perjury and trafficing illegal drugs do need to be punished. But I put crimes relating to cheating at a sport way down the list in terms of stuff I want the US law enforcement system to work hard at cracking down on. When I see the government spending millions on trying to put a Barry Bonds or Roger Clemmens in jail for lying about drug use... I do wonder if those dollars could be better spent going after people committing sex crimes, people pushing drugs on children or companies that are comitting unethical practices that screw people out of their retirements.

If it's a slam dunk... then yeah, prosecute him and put him away. If it's going to cost 50 million dollars to prosecute the case... then just let it drop. Punishing him for cheating while riding his bike (and helping others cheat while riding their bikes) is not worth that kind of expenditure.

Agreed, coming from the UK, there is a huge scandal about a TV personality raping young boys and girls, I heard there is something similar with Jerry Sandusky stateside which to me puts this thing into perspective.

Sure Betsy Andreu might be ****ed along with some people who ride the tour clean to come in 88th but if you ask the victims of these perverts then what Lance did isn't that bad.

 

[Cloxxki]

I think the only thing that can get him put in jail in the US is if there is enough proof to show that he was the one behind the trafficing of the drugs... distributing prescription drugs illegally.

Barring that, it's unlikely. Simply using (or telling others to use) is not going to get him arrested. All of the dopers in the US who've gone to jail (or even just gone to trial) have been relating to lying under oath... not actual use of PED's.

If a doctor writes a prescription, there's nothing illegal for an athelete to use PED's. It may be against the rules of their sport, but not against US law.

Lance can only hope to live the day his sins have been erased by due punishments. Doping and trafficing are just what got him on a roll. USADA could not be bought, so the first proper results we see on the doping side of things. By the time people are really done with him, he'll be drowning in the puke of his former supporters. Swim in THIS, con boy!
Cheating in sports is petty theft compared to the rest.

 

[purcell]

The greatest likelihood of any criminal charges, and I think the chances are slim, will come out of an IRSinvestigation of Livestrong/Livestrong, Tailwind, Armstrong, etc.

Tax fraud actually does get punished.

 

[Orinda8]

Bernie Madoff is serving jail time for his ponzi scheme;he did not put anyone's health at risk with inappropriate use of prescription drugs, he did not threaten anyone's buisness or bully critics. Lance should be put in jail right next to Madoff and not released until Madoff is released.

 

[purcell]

Bernie Madoff is serving jail time for his ponzi scheme;he did not put anyone's health at risk with inappropriate use of prescription drugs, he did not threaten anyone's buisness or bully critics. Lance should be put in jail right next to Madoff and not released until Madoff is released.

Madoff committed a financial crime, he committed tax fraud, and he pled guilty.

See the differences?

 

[kurtinsc]

So being a thieve doesn't get punished in the USA? I guess being the new Robin Hood exempt him from serving time.

I don't think cheating to win a sporting event is the same thing as stealing a car. Sports in the end is a form of entertainment. You may view cheating as a way of stealing a prize from someone who wasn't cheating, but the prizes in the end come from advertisers who pay to reach us... the fans.

Those advertisers reach us regardless of if the participants cheated or not to win the event. The events determine the rules as to who gets what prizes from participation in their event. They are the ones who determine what is cheating and what is not. There is no theivery if the event allows one contestant to break those rules and still take the prizes.

Think of it this way. Let's say we have one of those stupid contests where a group of people put their hand on a car, and the last one to take their hand off the vehicle wins it (and yes, these sort of stupid promotions do exist). If someone takes their hand off but puts it back on before the judges of the contest notice and ends up winning... did they cheat? Absolutely. Did they steal the car from the other contestants? No, they didn't. The car was owned by the group giving it away... and they gave it to someone who cheated. There's no theft from the other contestants.

In sports like soccer, football or baseball, umpires and refs make a lot of mistakes. And most of the time, when they get it wrong the team/player that benefits from that error does not speak up to correct it. They are CHEATING. That cheating can lead to players and coaches getting more money due to the results of their actions. But it's foolish to view that sort of behavior as theft in a legal sense. If you do, you open a big stinking can of worms that makes every sporting event a legal mess.

 

[barn yard]

jail time may be possible for the witness tampering/intimidation if the fed investigation goes live again

the fraud thing i am not so sure they would get him into jail for, but the witness tampering... quite possible

 

[meat puppet]

what about the material gains derived from cheating? not stealing per se, but IMO the metaphor is very misleading.

as though sports and economics did not interpenetrate