Teams & Riders Jakob Fuglsang discussion thread

[F_Cance]

Fuglsang was overrated as a Tour favorite anyways. There is always something happening to him.

 

[markene2]

Re:

Lars Michaelsen (Astana DS) being interviewed on the road, live from the Astana team car, about 2 hours into the stage:

"Our strategy is to stay up front today, because of the wind and danger of gaps appearing"

3 hours later Fuglsang has lost 1 minute 40 seconds in the crosswinds.

What is the major disconnect on this team?

They have a bunch of inept sports directors. Lots of riders not beeing in form somehow, only Fuglsang and Luts are flying this tour, its not good enough unfortunatly.

 

[RedheadDane]

So... Astana got caught by going the long way round in a roundabout shortly before the crosswinds started, and then got bottles.
And his reaction when being asked about it: "It's some real... dung!" I think he was about to use a slightly stronger word.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re:

So... Astana got caught by going the long way round in a roundabout shortly before the crosswinds started, and then got bottles.
And his reaction when being asked about it: "It's some real... dung!" I think he was about to use a slightly stronger word.

They got caught that way, because they were in the back half of the peloton and spead out all over the road.

There is no excuse, and we have seen the same day in and day out:
For the first 3/4 of every stage, they are compact and attentive.
For the last 1/4 of every stage, they are nowhere to be seen, except for Lutsenko.

It's just not good enough, for a team with no other goals than supporting their captain.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

So... Astana got caught by going the long way round in a roundabout shortly before the crosswinds started, and then got bottles.
And his reaction when being asked about it: "It's some real... dung!" I think he was about to use a slightly stronger word.

They got caught that way, because they were in the back half of the peloton and spead out all over the road.

There is no excuse, and we have seen the same day in and day out:
For the first 3/4 of every stage, they are compact and attentive.
For the last 1/4 of every stage, they are nowhere to be seen, except for Lutsenko.

It's just not good enough, for a team with no other goals than supporting their captain.

He wasn't using it as an excuse. He downright admitted that "We *** up."
Problem is; they were really strong and compact early in the race. Fuglsang even sending Cort up to help with the chasing so they'd have an alibi to be near the front and prepared for the crosswinds. Then… when the crosswinds started, they'd blown up all their matches.
It's quite easy to keep up in the crosswind when there is no crosswind.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re: Re:

So... Astana got caught by going the long way round in a roundabout shortly before the crosswinds started, and then got bottles.
And his reaction when being asked about it: "It's some real... dung!" I think he was about to use a slightly stronger word.

They got caught that way, because they were in the back half of the peloton and spead out all over the road.

There is no excuse, and we have seen the same day in and day out:
For the first 3/4 of every stage, they are compact and attentive.
For the last 1/4 of every stage, they are nowhere to be seen, except for Lutsenko.

It's just not good enough, for a team with no other goals than supporting their captain.

He wasn't using it as an excuse. He downright admitted that "We **** up."
Problem is; they were really strong and compact early in the race. Fuglsang even sending Cort up to help with the chasing so they'd have an alibi to be near the front and prepared for the crosswinds. Then… when the crosswinds started, they'd blown up all their matches.
It's quite easy to keep up in the crosswind when there is no crosswind.

Cort was the only one doing work, there is no excuse for the rest of the team being spread out all over the peloton, when they enter the final 30 K.

It's the same every damn day.

With the squad they have selected, I refuse to believe they are not strong enough..... I think they are just poorly managed.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Just stating the obvious here, but now Fuglsang will have to go on the offensive. Lets see how strong he really is and how big cojones he has on the biggest stage. Just got to find Mikel's wheel and then allez, forza, vamos. Could be a brilliant alliance.

 

[Danskebjerge]

Re:

Just stating the obvious here, but now Fuglsang will have to go on the offensive. Lets see how strong he really is and how big cojones he has on the biggest stage. Just got to find Mikel's wheel and then allez, forza, vamos. Could be a brilliant alliance.

Fuglsang overtaking several Ineos guys by three minutes in the last half of the Tour - that would be one of the biggest upsets in Tour history.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Well, he also needs to gain time in order to get on the podium..

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re: Re:

Just stating the obvious here, but now Fuglsang will have to go on the offensive. Lets see how strong he really is and how big cojones he has on the biggest stage. Just got to find Mikel's wheel and then allez, forza, vamos. Could be a brilliant alliance.

Fuglsang overtaking several Ineos guys by three minutes in the last half of the Tour - that would be one of the biggest upsets in Tour history.

You really are Mr. Negative today?

We have not seen the pyrenees or alps yet, and if anything, several main contenders losing time early, will make for a more exiting race, because fewer can afford to ride the tour defensively in the mountains.

Fuglsang, Pinot, Porte and Uran are forced on the offensive, and they all have teams which can back them up riding offensively.

You also have to remember, that with Froome and Dumoulin being absent, and Bernal probably needing another year, before he is a serious contender, all 4 of them know this is the year they have/had their chance.

I do not see any of them giving up, and I predict great stages to come

 

[Danskebjerge]

Re:

Well, he also needs to gain time in order to get on the podium..

He does. I never expected him to finish in the Top 5. I did expect him to be in contention before the big mountains though. Since he is so far down the ranking already at this point and has suffered both a crash and tactical defeats,
it all seems very difficult for him. Maybe he'll go for a stage win - that would sort of be a sad scenario.

 

[JosephK]

Re: Re:

Just stating the obvious here, but now Fuglsang will have to go on the offensive. Lets see how strong he really is and how big cojones he has on the biggest stage. Just got to find Mikel's wheel and then allez, forza, vamos. Could be a brilliant alliance.

Fuglsang overtaking several Ineos guys by three minutes in the last half of the Tour - that would be one of the biggest upsets in Tour history.

You really are Mr. Negative today?

We have not seen the pyrenees or alps yet, and if anything, several main contenders losing time early, will make for a more exiting race, because fewer can afford to ride the tour defensively in the mountains.

Fuglsang, Pinot, Porte and Uran are forced on the offensive, and they all have teams which can back them up riding offensively.

You also have to remember, that with Froome and Dumoulin being absent, and Bernal probably needing another year, before he is a serious contender, all 4 of them know this is the year they have/had their chance.

I do not see any of them giving up, and I predict great stages to come

I love Fuglsang, but starting with his crash at the beginning, there have been other setbacks (e.g., not going with Pinot over the hill on the de Gendt-winning stage) and then one big one today that have accumulated enough to put him way back not only of Thomas but also Bernal and others. I think he rallies into the top 10, but not sure how far up he can go. Nowhere near the podium I expect. . . . Trying to stay positive (ok, not really). :lol:

 

[Tonton]

There're several strong riders in his situation, the field is deep, this Ineos team seems not quite as invincible as it has been, and many hard days coming up. Alliances may form. After today, Quintana has to be the leader in his team, where is he at? Alaf and Ciccone will out of the window, if enough pressure is put, Bernal will lose time doing the job for Thomas. I see many scenarii putting Jacob in the top-5.

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Re:

So... Astana got caught by going the long way round in a roundabout shortly before the crosswinds started, and then got bottles.
And his reaction when being asked about it: "It's some real... dung!" I think he was about to use a slightly stronger word.

They got caught that way, because they were in the back half of the peloton and spead out all over the road.

There is no excuse, and we have seen the same day in and day out:
For the first 3/4 of every stage, they are compact and attentive.
For the last 1/4 of every stage, they are nowhere to be seen, except for Lutsenko.

It's just not good enough, for a team with no other goals than supporting their captain.

He wasn't using it as an excuse. He downright admitted that "We **** up."
Problem is; they were really strong and compact early in the race. Fuglsang even sending Cort up to help with the chasing so they'd have an alibi to be near the front and prepared for the crosswinds. Then… when the crosswinds started, they'd blown up all their matches.
It's quite easy to keep up in the crosswind when there is no crosswind.

I think that you combined two idioms there! :lol: Matches that blow up are not safe kids!

Like others have said, having a few guys losing time should make things more exciting if they try to get back in the race. JF should still be focusing on the podium.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Just stating the obvious here, but now Fuglsang will have to go on the offensive. Lets see how strong he really is and how big cojones he has on the biggest stage. Just got to find Mikel's wheel and then allez, forza, vamos. Could be a brilliant alliance.

Fuglsang overtaking several Ineos guys by three minutes in the last half of the Tour - that would be one of the biggest upsets in Tour history.

You really are Mr. Negative today?

We have not seen the pyrenees or alps yet, and if anything, several main contenders losing time early, will make for a more exiting race, because fewer can afford to ride the tour defensively in the mountains.

Fuglsang, Pinot, Porte and Uran are forced on the offensive, and they all have teams which can back them up riding offensively.

You also have to remember, that with Froome and Dumoulin being absent, and Bernal probably needing another year, before he is a serious contender, all 4 of them know this is the year they have/had their chance.

I do not see any of them giving up, and I predict great stages to come

Poles has been resting all week - he will tempo any rider down even thinking of attacking in week 3. No one is getting more than 20-30 seconds at best on INEOS. We’ve seen already with Landa’s attack on Stage 6, no panic and picked him up 3km later.

 

[Amazinmets87]

Re: Re:

Just stating the obvious here, but now Fuglsang will have to go on the offensive. Lets see how strong he really is and how big cojones he has on the biggest stage. Just got to find Mikel's wheel and then allez, forza, vamos. Could be a brilliant alliance.

Fuglsang overtaking several Ineos guys by three minutes in the last half of the Tour - that would be one of the biggest upsets in Tour history.

You really are Mr. Negative today?

We have not seen the pyrenees or alps yet, and if anything, several main contenders losing time early, will make for a more exiting race, because fewer can afford to ride the tour defensively in the mountains.

Fuglsang, Pinot, Porte and Uran are forced on the offensive, and they all have teams which can back them up riding offensively.

You also have to remember, that with Froome and Dumoulin being absent, and Bernal probably needing another year, before he is a serious contender, all 4 of them know this is the year they have/had their chance.

I do not see any of them giving up, and I predict great stages to come

Poles has been resting all week - he will tempo any rider down even thinking of attacking in week 3. No one is getting more than 20-30 seconds at best on INEOS. We’ve seen already with Landa’s attack on Stage 6, no panic and picked him up 3km later.

I agree; any long range solo attack by a genuine contender is hopeless

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Just stating the obvious here, but now Fuglsang will have to go on the offensive. Lets see how strong he really is and how big cojones he has on the biggest stage. Just got to find Mikel's wheel and then allez, forza, vamos. Could be a brilliant alliance.

Fuglsang overtaking several Ineos guys by three minutes in the last half of the Tour - that would be one of the biggest upsets in Tour history.

You really are Mr. Negative today?

We have not seen the pyrenees or alps yet, and if anything, several main contenders losing time early, will make for a more exiting race, because fewer can afford to ride the tour defensively in the mountains.

Fuglsang, Pinot, Porte and Uran are forced on the offensive, and they all have teams which can back them up riding offensively.

You also have to remember, that with Froome and Dumoulin being absent, and Bernal probably needing another year, before he is a serious contender, all 4 of them know this is the year they have/had their chance.

I do not see any of them giving up, and I predict great stages to come

Poles has been resting all week - he will tempo any rider down even thinking of attacking in week 3. No one is getting more than 20-30 seconds at best on INEOS. We’ve seen already with Landa’s attack on Stage 6, no panic and picked him up 3km later.

They couldn;t catch him, Kwiat was losing ground, but FDJ and Gaudu stepped in.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

Just stating the obvious here, but now Fuglsang will have to go on the offensive. Lets see how strong he really is and how big cojones he has on the biggest stage. Just got to find Mikel's wheel and then allez, forza, vamos. Could be a brilliant alliance.

Fuglsang overtaking several Ineos guys by three minutes in the last half of the Tour - that would be one of the biggest upsets in Tour history.

You really are Mr. Negative today?

We have not seen the pyrenees or alps yet, and if anything, several main contenders losing time early, will make for a more exiting race, because fewer can afford to ride the tour defensively in the mountains.

Fuglsang, Pinot, Porte and Uran are forced on the offensive, and they all have teams which can back them up riding offensively.

You also have to remember, that with Froome and Dumoulin being absent, and Bernal probably needing another year, before he is a serious contender, all 4 of them know this is the year they have/had their chance.

I do not see any of them giving up, and I predict great stages to come

Poles has been resting all week - he will tempo any rider down even thinking of attacking in week 3. No one is getting more than 20-30 seconds at best on INEOS. We’ve seen already with Landa’s attack on Stage 6, no panic and picked him up 3km later.

They couldn;t catch him, Kwiat was losing ground, but FDJ and Gaudu stepped in.

That was because Poels was rested, there will always be guys ready to protect their podium chances and given the final ramp preceded by false flat nobody would have succeeded.

 

[Danskebjerge]

Re: Re:

Just stating the obvious here, but now Fuglsang will have to go on the offensive. Lets see how strong he really is and how big cojones he has on the biggest stage. Just got to find Mikel's wheel and then allez, forza, vamos. Could be a brilliant alliance.

Fuglsang overtaking several Ineos guys by three minutes in the last half of the Tour - that would be one of the biggest upsets in Tour history.

You really are Mr. Negative today?

Negative yesterday, negative even today. And probably tomorrow as well. :lol:

If this was a brand new stage race, maybe I could see some interesting perspectives. But the Tour has its logic, and Ineos/Sky has never collapsed completely - which would be what is needed to make the race exciting again this year.

Of course we may be seeing battles for a possible place on the podium. And for stage wins. The commentators and TV hosts will be discussing how they are going to talk about the race in a way that makes the competition sound interesting. Magnus Cort will join a breakaway, and they'll say, wow, Astana is really on the offensive today, even though Cort being in a breakaway is pointless.

Maybe I've just seen too many Tours to spot the opportunities. :Neutral:

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I was wondering about the Danish rage after that stage.

Looks like they were on the wrong part of a roundabout, lost 40 positions, and immediately after it started splitting.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re: Re:

Just stating the obvious here, but now Fuglsang will have to go on the offensive. Lets see how strong he really is and how big cojones he has on the biggest stage. Just got to find Mikel's wheel and then allez, forza, vamos. Could be a brilliant alliance.

Fuglsang overtaking several Ineos guys by three minutes in the last half of the Tour - that would be one of the biggest upsets in Tour history.

You really are Mr. Negative today?

Negative yesterday, negative even today. And probably tomorrow as well. :lol:

If this was a brand new stage race, maybe I could see some interesting perspectives. But the Tour has its logic, and Ineos/Sky has never collapsed completely - which would be what is needed to make the race exciting again this year.

Of course we may be seeing battles for a possible place on the podium. And for stage wins. The commentators and TV hosts will be discussing how they are going to talk about the race in a way that makes the competition sound interesting. Magnus Cort will join a breakaway, and they'll say, wow, Astana is really on the offensive today, even though Cort being in a breakaway is pointless.

Maybe I've just seen too many Tours to spot the opportunities. :Neutral:

There are 3 tough stages in the Pyrenees, and then 3 tough stages in the Alps.
The peloton has not seen the big mountains yet, and you and others already declare the race over.
Come on, we've all watched too much cycling for that.
None of us have an idea how anyone is in the tall mountains yet.

I also think the TT in Pau may be quite interesting, because the first 17 k are very technical, and only the last 10 k for the TT specialists..... it is not a given Thomas will destroy everyone on that...... and I'm just throwing it out there: "New stiffer wheels"

I remember plenty of tours, where riders looked great on flat and intermediate stages, and then died in the big mountains, or got their GC destroyed in a crash....... and so do you

Last, but not least, we have both seen how Astana has been riding, all year..... they definitely have the team to ride aggressively (they suck at control, they are great at attacking), there is not a single weak link on that team in terms of attacking (baring injuries)..... I'm not saying they will succeed, but they will most definitely try, and test how good Ineos really are.

Obviously, odds are in Ineos' favour, but to declare the tour decided, at this point in time, seems overly negative to me.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re:

I was wondering about the Danish rage after that stage.

Looks like they were on the wrong part of a roundabout, lost 40 positions, and immediately after it started splitting.

It would not have been a problem, if the team had been compact.

They would have closed the gap in 2 minutes.

But, when the team is spread all over the peloton, with only 2 guys with Fuglsang, it suddenly becomes an impossible task.

 

[Danskebjerge]

Re: Re:

I remember plenty of tours, where riders looked great on flat and intermediate stages, and then died in the big mountains, or got their GC destroyed in a crash....... and so do you

As I've stated elsewhere, I do recognize that a crash can change things. Or illness. It's just that Ineos have TWO guys that look really strong, so at the moment not even bad luck seems a threat to their ambitions of winning the race.

In terms of Fuglsang, the problem is that there are so many strong riders ahead of him now. So even if he edges out, say, Martin and Pinot, he still has to deal with Kruijswijk, Bernal, Quintana etc. I don't see it coming.

I will be interesting to see how Fuglsang reacts later on when he realizes that he can't win. This year he has not been the type of guy who is fine with a 5th-10th place.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Just stating the obvious here, but now Fuglsang will have to go on the offensive. Lets see how strong he really is and how big cojones he has on the biggest stage. Just got to find Mikel's wheel and then allez, forza, vamos. Could be a brilliant alliance.

Fuglsang overtaking several Ineos guys by three minutes in the last half of the Tour - that would be one of the biggest upsets in Tour history.

You really are Mr. Negative today?

Negative yesterday, negative even today. And probably tomorrow as well. :lol:

If this was a brand new stage race, maybe I could see some interesting perspectives. But the Tour has its logic, and Ineos/Sky has never collapsed completely - which would be what is needed to make the race exciting again this year.

Of course we may be seeing battles for a possible place on the podium. And for stage wins. The commentators and TV hosts will be discussing how they are going to talk about the race in a way that makes the competition sound interesting. Magnus Cort will join a breakaway, and they'll say, wow, Astana is really on the offensive today, even though Cort being in a breakaway is pointless.

Maybe I've just seen too many Tours to spot the opportunities. :Neutral:

You summed it up very well. There will be some fruitless attacks to be picked up on 1-2km later by the Ineos train. Poeles has been in rest mode and will be very happy to tempo at 450w until the cows come home.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Cort gave an interview to a danish cycling podcast valled Veloropa earlier today.

Amongst the things he said:

- Astana use trainers to scout in front of the peloton on every stage...... but the information they get is largely irrelevant to the riders (he did not say it, but I am guessing those trainers are not former riders).

- Fuglsang is not nearly vocal enough as a leader during a stage, they barely hear him on the radio.

- Fuglsang said at the post stage debrief, that they now need to launch long range attacks, if he is to hit the podium.

- Valverde has lost so much weight, that he has gotten "grandma arms", time for him to retire (joking)

- The will to ride as a team is there amongst the riders (they need direction).

Later in the same podcast (from another source outside Astana, not Cort), the podcast reports that apparently Michaelsen had not been consulted about stage strategy at all....... despite being the cross wind specialist on the team.