Jan Ullrich still has it!!!

[roundabout]

I have to find the place in Germany yet where that is standard. When it comes to bottles, 500ml is standard and in cafes that seems to be the standard most of the time as well.

It shouldn't however matter how many beers he drank, the fact he drank some beers at all before getting inside a car is what caused the problem. I sincerely hope those others didn't sustain any lasting damage at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_drink

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

When you knowingly put yourself behind the wheel having had a few drinks, you're incredibly reckless and apparently at that moment you're showing little concern for other people's and your own safety.

Sure. He did a mistake. It just annoys me when people call out others for a minor offence (like drink driving just a lit over the old freedom standards of the 80s at 1.2 promille).
Let´s face it: Personally I don´t know a single person who never drove drunk. Life is dangerous, driving is, cycling is. But that doesn´t mean everybody is a scum bag because ascetic persons like "arvc" think so.

(1) Well think twice and you might find out that he drove to fast because he had alcohol in himself (2) And then you'll change you point of view.

(1) No doubt about it. The most likely reason for the accident. But...
(2) ... no that doesn´t change my mind. Sober hobby motorbike riders with crazy speeds are wayyy more dangerous for all of us than just a little drunk car drivers. Heck, even cyclists under influence of Tramadol are more dangerous for themselves and the people around them.

Unbelievable !. There is nothing to debate on this. You do not drink and drive.

You know, I don´t like "owners of a final truth"...

I really don't see how he is doing this. He did make mistakes, big ones like this for example, but he's never once that I can remember been self righteous and I haven't heard of him bullying or abusing power as a habit. Feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.

His behavior, sadly, is mostly excepted in Germany too. Famously once a Bavarian prime minister claimed one could safely drive having drunk 2 liters of beer.

Not to be misunderstood. I think his behavior is unacceptable, but a big part of Germans don't think so. It's not crossing a big line in our culture, so the awareness of doing something wrong is limeted. Some even see it as rebellion for their own freedom (which is nuts, but so is the FDP idea of freedom which is solely the freedom of onceself not theother. And they got 14% of the vote once)

Good post. He did a mistake. But to throw him in the dustbin of LA just because of this, is grotesque (mildly saying).
But I am sure "arvc" is in a tiny minority group here...

I have to find the place in Germany yet where that is standard. When it comes to bottles, 500ml is standard and in cafes that seems to be the standard most of the time as well.

It shouldn't however matter how many beers he drank, the fact he drank some beers at all before getting inside a car is what caused the problem. I sincerely hope those others didn't sustain any lasting damage at all.

Standard beer for us Germans is 0.4 in bars, between 0.3 and 0.5 in bottles and cans. Anyway, no big deal. Let´s face it; he got some drinks (but was far from lights out drunk), and made the mistake of stepping in his car.

 

[Kokoso]

A standard. 330ml @ 4.6%

Here where I live 500 ml is standard.

 

[Kokoso]

Sure. He did a mistake. It just annoys me when people call out others for a minor offence (like drink driving just a lit over the old freedom standards of the 80s at 1.2 promille).
Let´s face it: Personally I don´t know a single person who never drove drunk. Life is dangerous, driving is, cycling is. But that doesn´t mean everybody is a scum bag because ascetic persons like "arvc" think so.



(1) No doubt about it. The most likely reason for the accident. But...
(2) ... no that doesn´t change my mind. Sober hobby motorbike riders with crazy speeds are wayyy more dangerous for all of us than just a little drunk car drivers. Heck, even cyclists under influence of Tramadol are more dangerous for themselves and the people around them.



You know, I don´t like "owners of a final truth"...



Good post. He did a mistake. But to throw him in the dustbin of LA just because of this, is grotesque (mildly saying).
But I am sure "arvc" is in a tiny minority group here...



Standard beer for us Germans is 0.4 in bars, between 0.3 and 0.5 in bottles and cans. Anyway, no big deal. Let´s face it; he got some drinks (but was far from lights out drunk), and made the mistake of stepping in his car.

You act really stupid. For instance the thing with cyclist on Tramadol...of course drunk car driver is far more dangerous than that cyclist. My god. Car weights like 20 times more and goes much faster.

 

[Jagartrott]

Sure. He did a mistake. It just annoys me when people call out others for a minor offence (like drink driving just a lit over the old freedom standards of the 80s at 1.2 promille).
Let´s face it: Personally I don´t know a single person who never drove drunk. Life is dangerous, driving is, cycling is. But that doesn´t mean everybody is a scum bag because ascetic persons like "arvc" think so.

Hey, once upon a time it was OK to burn wicked women. Does that make it OK today? The rules are very clear, the dangers of drunk driving are very clear, and your way of thinking is very clearly apologetic and therefore dangerous.

 

[Race Radio]

minor offence like drink driving just a lit over the old freedom standards of the 80s

It is 2014, not 1970. The level was reduced for a reason, because the level in the 70's was nonsense.

In many countries Jan would be considered twice the legal limit. He is in trouble. He will lose his license for at least 3 months as well as pay a big fine. In Switzerland the fine is base on how rich you are......this will be a big fine and perhaps some time in jail due to the property damage

 

[GJB123]

I stand corrected on the mount of beers he probably had. I got my numbers mixed up and thought he and blown 0.67 pro mille which equates to about 3 beers. 1.4 pro mille or 0.67 mg/l is indeed more in the vicinity of 6-8 beers and that is just plain way too much to even get near a car anywhere other than in the backseat. Very stupid thing to do and he will have to live with the consequences as anybody else would have to.

 

[arvc40]

I really don't see how he is doing this. He did make mistakes, big ones like this for example, but he's never once that I can remember been self righteous and I haven't heard of him bullying or abusing power as a habit. Feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.

His behavior, sadly, is mostly excepted in Germany too. Famously once a Bavarian prime minister claimed one could safely drive having drunk 2 liters of beer.

Not to be misunderstood. I think his behavior is unacceptable, but a big part of Germans don't think so. It's not crossing a big line in our culture, so the awareness of doing something wrong is limeted. Some even see it as rebellion for their own freedom (which is nuts, but so is the FDP idea of freedom which is solely the freedom of onceself not theother. And they got 14% of the vote once)

Was not making comparisons to Armstrong with regards to bullying and the like. Just saying he's a Tour winner making big mistakes in his life.

 

[arvc40]

Why? Because he had 1.4 promille? Back in the 80s the alcohol limit was 1.2 in Germany (I guess it was similar in CH). So that doesn´t qualify him being a LA or scum bag. What is bad is that he drove too fast. OTOH, others do it too, he only drove 20 km/h too fast.
Actually it comes down to a accident that happens when speed is involved. Like it is on downhill skiing or road cycling. So is the majority of people scum bags?
True scum bags maybe those crazy motorbike riders who endanger everybody on streets (cyclists, car drivers, pedestrians) with their dumb extreme high speed hobby.

So before calling out somebody, better be sure what your are talking of. Otherwise you might end up as the sole scum bag involved.

Does not matter what angle you come at me on this.

I am not interested in what the legal limits for alcohol are either. In the UK there is a legal limit but I set my own. Its called ZERO.

You want to go out on the **** then best leave the car behind !. I would hope that most would agree this is the sensible approach.

 

[neineinei]

What is it about former top athletes and Audis this May?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

You act really stupid. For instance the thing with cyclist on Tramadol...of course drunk car driver is far more dangerous than that cyclist. My god. Car weights like 20 times more and goes much faster.

Well... that´s an opinion. I was on Tramadol after Ibuprofen and Dicflo didn´t work anymore. It´s heavy, you get dizzy different ways than under some beers, I was unable to ride my bike. OTOH, I was all kinds of drunk. Only when lights out, it was more dangerous than being on Tramadol. So my opinion is: Riding bikes on Tramadol is far more dangerous than being slightly drunk. Especially if you go downhill 70 km/h.

Hey, once upon a time it was OK to burn wicked women. Does that make it OK today? The rules are very clear, the dangers of drunk driving are very clear, and your way of thinking is very clearly apologetic and therefore dangerous.

Opinions are not dangerous, but US drone wars against innocent people are for example. You see, I can also bring up absurd examples.

It is 2014, not 1970. The level was reduced for a reason, because the level in the 70's was nonsense.

In many countries Jan would be considered twice the legal limit. He is in trouble. He will lose his license for at least 3 months as well as pay a big fine. In Switzerland the fine is base on how rich you are......this will be a big fine and perhaps some time in jail due to the property damage

He will get some punishment. That´s ok, since he did hurt others. But prison is over the top: 7.5% of accident deaths happened in Germany were when alcohol was involved. That means 92.5% had other reasons. The thing Ullrich should be punished for is speeding (by no more than 20 km/h). While it´s likely the alc had a influence on the accident, it isn´t the main reason. It´s about chance/(un)luck, speeding, circumstances... just like that. Driving is dangerous in itself.

Was not making comparisons to Armstrong with regards to bullying and the like. Just saying he's a Tour winner making big mistakes in his life.

... like everyone else does. So what´s the point to call him scum bag?

 

[Race Radio]

While it´s likely the alc had a influence on the accident, it isn´t the main reason. It´s about chance/(un)luck, speeding, circumstances... just like that. Driving is dangerous in itself.

6 beers in an hour is not "Luck"

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Yesterday it was 3/4 beers, today it grew to six ... No matter, the issue is; Ullrich was at the wrong place in the wrong time (I call that chance/(un)luck) driving a machine that wasn´t made for mankind. As it wasn´t with bikes going 70 km/h, motorbikes going 200 km/h, or airplanes going at 800+...
I repeat again: The mere act of stepping into a car driving it faster than the human body was made for, accidents happen, Alcohol or not...

 

[Netserk]

Yesterday it was 3/4 beers, today it grew to six ... No matter, the issue is; Ullrich was at the wrong place in the wrong time (I call that chance/(un)luck) driving a machine that wasn´t made for mankind. As it wasn´t with bikes going 70 km/h, motorbikes going 200 km/h, or airplanes going at 800+...
I repeat again: The mere act of stepping into a car driving it faster than the human body was made for, accidents happen, Alcohol or not...

Do the math yourself. It was never 3/4 beers. 6 beers is a minimum. 7 or 8 are more likely, could be more. (beer=33cl@4.6%)

 

[RiccoDinko]

2nd time he's got charged with this, no excuse, learn your lesson Jan.

 

[Walkman]

Yesterday it was 3/4 beers, today it grew to six ... No matter, the issue is; Ullrich was at the wrong place in the wrong time (I call that chance/(un)luck) driving a machine that wasn´t made for mankind. As it wasn´t with bikes going 70 km/h, motorbikes going 200 km/h, or airplanes going at 800+...
I repeat again: The mere act of stepping into a car driving it faster than the human body was made for, accidents happen, Alcohol or not...

Uhm…time to wake up?

You don't drink 6 beers and just happen to get into your car and drive away. It's a conscious choice. Ullrich chose to drink and drive.

And to be frank, you trying to make excuses for him makes me think you are somewhat of an idiot. What if he were to hit your sister? Your kid? Still just unlucky?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Uhm…time to wake up?

You don't drink 6 beers and just happen to get into your car and drive away. It's a conscious choice. Ullrich chose to drink and drive.

And to be frank, you trying to make excuses for him makes me think you are somewhat of an idiot. What if he were to hit your sister? Your kid? Still just unlucky?

Who is the idiot? The one with a different opinion, or those who can´t discuss without offending? Same as in the clinic. It´s disgusting. All those little guys thinking they own the final truth. Such people are dangerous.
Ok, that´s only a internet forum, but in the bigger picture, that´s why the world is filled with bad people from bottom to top.
Anyway, I always talk in the name of freedom. Because it´s going downhill fast all over the world.
What if it had been my siz? What if it happened to your kid? But just assume it was a sober woman behind the wheel... Happened to someone I know. The judge didn´t gave a penalty. It was a accident. Now if the same woman had a glass of wine, hell would have broken lose... all those phucking double standards... Ullrich was wrong place, wrong time. Period. My opinion.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Looks like we have a bit of competition going.

Ricco for bodybuilding and Jan for Pétanque.

 

[pastronef]

But just assume it was a sober woman behind the wheel... Happened to someone I know. The judge didn´t gave a penalty. It was a accident. Now if the same woman had a glass of wine, hell would have broken lose..

must agree with that. If you have an accident (and you are NOT DRUNK) just hope you had no wine or beer for lunch/dinner. because, if you are NOT DRUNK but just over the 0.5, you'll be in BIG trouble. you can get over 0.5 with 1 grappa/schnaps

 

[Netserk]

must agree with that. If you have an accident (and you are NOT DRUNK) just hope you had no wine or beer for lunch/dinner. because, if you are NOT DRUNK but just over the 0.5, you'll be in BIG trouble. you can get over 0.5 with 1 grappa/schnaps

Not even a 50kg woman would get over 0.5 with a single grappa(4ml).

 

[Alpechraxler]

Well... that´s an opinion. I was on Tramadol after Ibuprofen and Dicflo didn´t work anymore. It´s heavy, you get dizzy different ways than under some beers, I was unable to ride my bike. OTOH, I was all kinds of drunk. Only when lights out, it was more dangerous than being on Tramadol. So my opinion is: Riding bikes on Tramadol is far more dangerous than being slightly drunk. Especially if you go downhill 70 km/h.

The thing with opiods and driving is much different. If you are used to an opiod and on a steady dose after an individual time there are no side effects lefts beside miosis and constipation.
Due to an autoimmune disease with damages to certain nerves i was in bad pain and took oxycodon for a half a year. Never affected my car or bike handling skills or work performance.

 

[kingjr]

2nd time he's got charged with this, no excuse, learn your lesson Jan.

Forget it. We're talking about Ullrich here.

 

[arvc40]

Over and out on this one people. Let's see if the Judge agrees with FOXYBROWN !.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

must agree with that. If you have an accident (and you are NOT DRUNK) just hope you had no wine or beer for lunch/dinner. because, if you are NOT DRUNK but just over the 0.5, you'll be in BIG trouble. you can get over 0.5 with 1 grappa/schnaps

Good. Finally there is somebody who thinks a little farther. I thought I am in a hopeless kindergarten.

Not even a 50kg woman would get over 0.5 with a single grappa(4ml).

And still: If you have the slightest amount of alc in your blood and having a accident (not even a must you drove wrong, but the other party), you are in trouble (at least in Germany. I guess in police state USA it´s even worse. You are certainly doomed for the rest of your life). Thus; still phucking double standards.

The thing with opiods and driving is much different. If you are used to an opiod and on a steady dose after an individual time there are no side effects lefts beside miosis and constipation.
Due to an autoimmune disease with damages to certain nerves i was in bad pain and took oxycodon for a half a year. Never affected my car or bike handling skills or work performance.

I think it works both ways. I didn´t took Tramadol too long, b/c I got nightmare off them. So I don´t know if one can get used to it. But it seems from your experience talking.
OTOH, alc users also can get used. It´s not too far fetched that it seems Ullrich likes to party now and then (I am the last one on this forum that begrudge him of that), thus it´s possible he was still able to drive. The problem was speeding + bad luck it seems.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Over and out on this one people. Let's see if the Judge agrees with FOXYBROWN !.

... yeah, and you would make a good dictator. Either with you, or against... Let´s flush Ullrich down the toilet with LA, just because for living a life of freedom (which OFC includes many stupid things we all did) the ascets are just jealous of.