Jan Ullrich

[MD FACG FACP]

Or perhaps this one is better...

What a loser it's all about coke and strippers.

 

[Neworld]

Does anyone have a photo of the crash(car, him, or both) where Jan was pacing his team car before the 2005 TdF ITT?

NW

 

[webvan]

Don't remember seeing a picture of the crash, but I found this : http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...s-and-cuts-in-crash-with-team-car-497231.html

Hip Hip! Yes he was fun to watch, great TT style as well. Still makes me sad and cringe when I see the video of the Tour ('03?) (my brain's going and starting to get all the years fuzzy) where it was SO close and Ulle's riding the final TT --it is raining and the roads are slick---but he is killin' it and slides in that fateful corner. ...he got up and right back on his bike and finished, but JUST short of time...bad luck.
He was ALWAYS a gracious champion....miss him greatly.

Yep and at that point he had a 5 second advantage over the "Onenut Wonder", granted he'd gotten the 5 seconds in 5 kilometers and then it had stayed there so he probably wasn't going to get the jersey, but still.

However in typical Ullrich/Pevenage "happy go lucky" strategy I remember reading that they hadn't done any reconnaissance on the stage and/or that no one from the team had been posted at the roundabouts to give warnings/help if need be, probably because they thought it was completely flat. Of course OneNut and Bruyneel had. Sorry couldn't find a link for that, it's been almost 8 years now...

 

[Neworld]

Don't remember seeing a picture of the crash, but I found this : http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...s-and-cuts-in-crash-with-team-car-497231.html

Thank you.

NW

 

[thehog]

Does anyone have a photo of the crash(car, him, or both) where Jan was pacing his team car before the 2005 TdF ITT?

NW

................

 

[stainlessguy1]

I never said I had a PhD, I asked you what 'formal' training you had and you never answered...humm suspicious?!



Saying you're wrong is not inappropriate. I think you're wrong, prove me/us otherwise. Facts are good.



SG1, This is a thread about one of the best procyclists in recent memory. This is not about some mesomorphic, never road more than 10Kms in his life, cyclist. That is so way off topic and not about Jan Ullrich...why is that even here...did you read the title at all?



Again read above. This is NOT about the recreational or commuting cyclist who I agree almost always have their seats too low, and their seat jammed way forward on the seat post, biometric data IS important. Its important to coaches of aspiring races and more importantly its important to this thread about Jan Ullrich...which is why I asked if anyone knows some data on Jan.

I havent' heard any yet so its either not available or the person who has it is not linked to this thread. Answer some of the questions I asked you and use some facts please. Otherwise your posts are hollow and devoid of worth.


No one really cares if you fire out a statement like " wow Ullrich rides like a diesel" or "I wish I had Ulle's Diesel or Turbo D"...whatever but when you rant on more than 3 long winded posts about stuff like...



...then people start to think maybe you have had some formal training in biomechanics. Or are you the kind of jack of all trades that maybe took a Social anthropology course and try to use non-evidenced based loose relationships which have outcomes that match your poor examples.

I am saying everyone here most likely will let the odd unusual opinion fly...but if you rant something that is challengeable, then you should be prepared to accept the challenge, back it up with some facts(what a concept) and/or your 'virtual' credentials.

I know what my credentials are and I am educated enough and wise enough to know that you are out of your league and also that I am no biomechanic PhD.

Just provide some facts and I will either compliment you or ask you more questions. Seems fair to me. Otherwise your unfounded rants will stand unattested on this "Ullrich" thread and someone might start to believe your stream of consciousness.

NW

_______________________________________________________________

WEll , lol , I havent figured out what you are since your not a person with a phd , but i do know you are some kind of a * Cut and Paste Specialist * that likes to pull quotes from posts that were replies to other readers ideas and not ment for general disection to which they make no sense without the previous readers post as well . You include previous posts to further an idea and to discredit one example that systematicaly intends to discredit the poster , instead of being a counter argument for the post you just read .
You seem to go to great lengths to insult people and demand proof of what they do and proof of everything that is posted . YOu seem highly argumentative when someone else has an idea that is not the norm .
So why dont you prove to me the earth is round , everybody knows the earth is flat , cause when folks go to the edge of town they dont come back .
In Short I think you see yourself as some sort of a self appointed grammer and posting police along with a few others here .
So its about Jan is it .

 

[Neworld]

_______________________________________________________________

WEll , lol , I havent figured out ...

You are a silly person. Trying to ask for details and/or answer simple questions from you is like herding mice. Sorry you see me as argumentative. I think I am trying to seek out facts to specific points you make; which is done by many other posters btw. I like most people live in a factual world...feel free to join in.

But if you post unfounded, silly, streams of consciousness be prepared to have people critique them.

Do you have any questions or interesting points about Jan Ullrich?

NW

 

[flicker]

You are a silly person. Trying to ask for details and/or answer simple questions from you is like herding mice. Sorry you see me as argumentative. I think I am trying to seek out facts to specific points you make; which is done by many other posters btw. I like most people live in a factual world...feel free to join in.

But if you post unfounded, silly, streams of consciousness be prepared to have people critique them.

Do you have any questions or interesting points about Jan Ullrich?

NW

Getting back on track, Ullrich was/is not bitter, angry, jelaous.

He is an uber nice guy, and I see lights beaming from his eyes and his rainbow aura. He also has the all important"position" on the bike.

 

[Parrulo]

jan is so awesome.

i always cheered for him.

i never really got the lance being a more likable person. only person i loved on his team was azevedo for obvious reasons.

maybe the reason i always liked jan is cus pink is one of my fav colours and vino and klodean still are some of my fav riders. and back then all 3 were together wearing pink so. . . .

 

[JPM London]

However in typical Ullrich/Pevenage "happy go lucky" strategy I remember reading that they hadn't done any reconnaissance on the stage and/or that no one from the team had been posted at the roundabouts to give warnings/help if need be, probably because they thought it was completely flat. Of course OneNut and Bruyneel had. Sorry couldn't find a link for that, it's been almost 8 years now...

Yes, don't forget that LA/JB invented reccing - nobody had thought of it before them! Well, even if not the complete truth unfortunately many didn't.
It's funny, though, that Telekom/Ullrich/Pevenage didn't do it as it's something Riis definitely did (yes, I know he's mainly famous for being good at doping, but he's actually good at other stuff too). One can wonder why they didn't think "Hey, that was actually a good idea. Shouldn't we keep it up?"

 

[mewmewmew13]

more pix ...
'THE JAN"

 

[webvan]

Yes, don't forget that LA/JB invented reccing - nobody had thought of it before them! Well, even if not the complete truth unfortunately many didn't.
It's funny, though, that Telekom/Ullrich/Pevenage didn't do it as it's something Riis definitely did (yes, I know he's mainly famous for being good at doping, but he's actually good at other stuff too). One can wonder why they didn't think "Hey, that was actually a good idea. Shouldn't we keep it up?"

I wonder is anyone remembers, or finds a link, for exactly what it is they had "forgotten" to do that day, but clearly strategy was never a strong point with them. Like in 2004 when Ulle went on the attack than got reeled in and they still had Kloden leading him out at the arrival at Villard de Lans...and Armstrong won...granted they did it the other way round two days later and Armstrong won again.

 

[stainlessguy1]

Getting back on track, Ullrich was/is not bitter, angry, jelaous.

He is an uber nice guy, and I see lights beaming from his eyes and his rainbow aura. He also has the all important"position" on the bike.

Ya , thanks Flicker ,for getting us back on track . If i wanted to have a product promoted i would pick Jan as an icon to do it .
He is an all around nice guy and has many other fine qualities that will put something back into the sport .

 

[Neworld]

...
Then you start on with VO2 max issues and cite the question "does anyone know his heart rate , stroke volume , resting rate . omg ( who cares )
Did you know that before you even put your first needle in your arm , you have to be set up on a bike to ride it . Properly .
The mechanics are the first and most basic item of performance bike riding . The mechanics of the rider position , the seat height the stem length the frame build , the crank length . Without these being right all the dope and VO2 max wont do a bit of good .(snip) .

Stainless,

Check out some recent comments by J. Vaughters.

"So then, why did this not apply to Xavier? Because I was convinced there was no way he could perform at a high level without doping. I was right, I knew. And I judged. Why bother even testing his Vo2 and cross correlating it with hematology to find out if he’s talented? Maybe that’s what I did with other athletes, but I knew I was right with Xavier. My judgment was sound. I had already connected the dots. I knew he was just a donkey made to ride fast with extra blood. I never gave him a chance. I never gave him a second thought."

These are his initial comments on how he has in the past (other riders), and could evaluate X. Tondo's, cycling abilities. No mention of technical positioning as that is something that can always be changed, the VO2 Max (genetics) etc... cannot.

Also, go to youtube and search LA-Lemond interview 2009...I think its the D. Catlin interview. Listen to Lemond talking about O2 consumption, genetics, power outputs, genetics. Although Lemond may have been presenting this to the public in 2009 as a new idea, amoungst physiologists that tenet is nothing new. That is how athlete's potential, and future value, is tested.

For joe couch-potato...raising the seat, measuring the bike frame geometry etc...and matching it to the mesomorph would make a difference...in getting to Pizza Hut for some stuffed crust.

NW

 

[webvan]

Wow, where and when did he say that about Xavier Tondo ?!

 

[biopass]

I knew he was just a donkey made to ride fast with extra blood. I never gave him a chance. I never gave him a second thought."

What do you mean?

Tondo is not a donkey who rides fast with extra blood?

 

[Neworld]

What do you mean?

Tondo is not a donkey who rides fast with extra blood?

Webvan and Biopass,

These comments are not mine...they are from JV either today or yesterday

http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/jonathan-vaughters/connecting-the-dots

NW

 

[AngusW]

Don't remember seeing a picture of the crash, but I found this : http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...s-and-cuts-in-crash-with-team-car-497231.html


Yep and at that point he had a 5 second advantage over the "Onenut Wonder", granted he'd gotten the 5 seconds in 5 kilometers and then it had stayed there so he probably wasn't going to get the jersey, but still.

However in typical Ullrich/Pevenage "happy go lucky" strategy I remember reading that they hadn't done any reconnaissance on the stage and/or that no one from the team had been posted at the roundabouts to give warnings/help if need be, probably because they thought it was completely flat. Of course OneNut and Bruyneel had. Sorry couldn't find a link for that, it's been almost 8 years now...

You're right about the reconnaissance - I remember reading all about it in a book called "Every Second Counts", by some well-known cyclist, so it must be true.

 

[AngusW]

I'm a long-time Jan fan. I remember picking up on their 'schtick' comments whenver one was about Ulle...
my favorite was Paul saying.."he's a BEAST of a man!"

Yeah, that reminds of another of Paul's descriptions of Jan Ullrich:

"...and just behind Armstrong is the HUGE German talent, Jan Ullrich."

The emphasis was all the the "HUGE". Well, I guess it would sound disrespectful to call him the FAT German talent.

 

[biopass]

Webvan and Biopass,

These comments are not mine...they are from JV either today or yesterday

http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/jonathan-vaughters/connecting-the-dots

NW

Your point is that JV wished one of his riders had the antidoping credibility of Tondo?

 

[Neworld]

Your point is that JV wished one of his riders had the antidoping credibility of Tondo?

No I was trying to back-up a point that I made to another poster a couple of weeks ago, about how trainers, coaches and various DSs in the cycling community now value the predictive 'power' of powertap meters and a persons VO2max. These devices and values are very useful in determining the success of a rider. The other poster was saying the rider positioning and the mechanics of a bike relative to the bike rider are far more important.

I disagree and it appears that JV does too.

NW

 

[thingswelike]

Too much writing - too few pics.

I miss him

 

[stainlessguy1]

No I was trying to back-up a point that I made to another poster a couple of weeks ago, about how trainers, coaches and various DSs in the cycling community now value the predictive 'power' of powertap meters and a persons VO2max. These devices and values are very useful in determining the success of a rider. The other poster was saying the rider positioning and the mechanics of a bike relative to the bike rider are far more important.

I disagree and it appears that JV does too.

NW

All the gizmos that help determine whether or not a person is strong or has the possiblity of strength still do not predict nor can they predict the success of a rider . They may predict possibilities but nothing more .
The success of a rider goes beyond that of just plucking the perfect apple out of the apple cart . A good looking apple with large lungs and vo2 max doesnt make a rider .
A rider must have riding bicycles in his bones and in his soul . He must have the spirit that can go beyond that of the thought that a diamond in the rough can be found just anywhere . Only the rider himself can seek that once he discovers it .
Once you find that so called rider , he still needs one more thing that you really cant measure at all . Only real bike racers know what that is .
I will let you figure that out on your own .

 

[Neworld]

All the gizmos that help determine whether or not a person is strong or has the possiblity of strength still do not predict nor can they predict the success of a rider . They may predict possibilities but nothing more .
The success of a rider goes beyond that of just plucking the perfect apple out of the apple cart . A good looking apple with large lungs and vo2 max doesnt make a rider . ...
Once you find that so called rider , he still needs one more thing that you really cant measure at all . Only real bike racers know what that is .
I will let you figure that out on your own .

Since this is a thread about one of the true champions in recent history(J. Ullrich), and not about some parallel with just any rider with determination and a great crank and top tube length, I would suggest that including anything less is not relevant on this post.

Jan Ullrich was a champion, who never quit, never complained and was a gentleman. He was a perfect rider, with boundless passion and determination with a near perfect VO2Max and biomechanics. In this scenario getting the perfect seat positions...would only account for say, at most, 3-5% of his success.

You believe that selecting any passionate rider out of a hat, even with average genetics, and maximizing their 'bike' for efficiency in hopes of finding a champion is simply not enough and not done at any high level of the sport today.

However, the reverse is true. If you cannot hold "x" watts for "y" minutes, with said VO2Max and endless passion and enthusiasm you may be a champion like Ullrich. The bike position can be manipulated, the genetics cannot. Why do you think so many riders are blood doping and taking EPO products? I don't know of a black market for mechanics.

I agree with the inherent need for passion for the sport and a need to endure the expanse of pain to ride, but if you cannot see the way this sport demands an inherent need for a high baseline of genetics IN RACING then you are lost on this topic.

Sorry buddy. NW

 

[stainlessguy1]

Since this is a thread about one of the true champions in recent history(J. Ullrich), and not about some parallel with just any rider with determination and a great crank and top tube length, I would suggest that including anything less is not relevant on this post.

Jan Ullrich was a champion, who never quit, never complained and was a gentleman. He was a perfect rider, with boundless passion and determination with a near perfect VO2Max and biomechanics. In this scenario getting the perfect seat positions...would only account for say, at most, 3-5% of his success.

You believe that selecting any passionate rider out of a hat, even with average genetics, and maximizing their 'bike' for efficiency in hopes of finding a champion is simply not enough and not done at any high level of the sport today.

However, the reverse is true. If you cannot hold "x" watts for "y" minutes, with said VO2Max and endless passion and enthusiasm you may be a champion like Ullrich. The bike position can be manipulated, the genetics cannot. Why do you think so many riders are blood doping and taking EPO products? I don't know of a black market for mechanics.

I agree with the inherent need for passion for the sport and a need to endure the expanse of pain to ride, but if you cannot see the way this sport demands an inherent need for a high baseline of genetics IN RACING then you are lost on this topic.

Sorry buddy. NW

Hello Nw .

Yes , you said it right there , in your last sentence . A high baseline of genetics .
Since we cant have a set of lungs ride around by themselves , i guess we need the rest of the body to be its most perfect performing part , right down to the leg length vs. thigh lenth vs. lower leg length . That matched perfectly to the arm length and upper body length in most positions , including the attack position . The attack position , the sustainable position over many miles without dope .
So here we are again , genetics , the final frontier . To go where no human has gone before . To be ever faster and stronger , jump higher all without dope .
Jan had all the right ingredients . right .
The original poster , had pics of Jan and it was his intention to prove he rode clean by looking at the pics and study riding styles on video . Yes .
So my theory of mechanics still stands , i say there is more to riding and racing than the Vo2 max , power /time output equation .
My biggest concern is that when people dont have an alternative to talk about , something that seems logical or something that might be overlooked then they immediately turn to dope , it must be dope . So the papers say .
I started the issue of mechanics so people can generate interest in the finese of bike fitting . It has taken on a new dimension . Computerized bike fitting . More and more pro and top amateur teams are doing it .
Its a Brave new world < Neworld > pun intended .