Jan Ullrich

[webvan]

Yes, I think it would be a good time for a confession. I think we know the outline :
- Yes we did what everyone was doing in 1996, 1997 and 1998, why/how couldn't we?
- We stopped EPO after Festina
- We couldn't believe our eyes when Armstrong won in 1999 then repeatedly trounced us in 2000 and 2001
- We thought things had changed in 2003
- When we saw what happened in 2004 we decided to stop being made fools of
- We went to Fuentes and got caught.

 

[SiAp1984]

Yes, I think it would be a good time for a confession. I think we know the outline :
- Yes we did what everyone was doing in 1996, 1997 and 1998, why/how couldn't we?
- We stopped EPO after Festina
- We couldn't believe our eyes when Armstrong won in 1999 then repeatedly trounced us in 2000 and 2001
- We thought things had changed in 2003
- When we saw what happened in 2004 we decided to stop being made fools of
- We went to Fuentes and got caught.

I expect he will not adress anything what happened before 2005.
- Ullrich can still plead that he won clean in 1997 and placed a clean second in 1996, 1998, 2000, 2001 and 2003.
- Ullrich can still claim he won the Vuelta clean in 1999.
- Important to him: He won clean in 2000 Olympics
Everybody knows that this is doubtful, but nobody seems to be able to prove him wrong (not even his former teammates seem ready to point the finger at him).

As to the time from May 2005 on, he will state that he was tempted by Armstrong and Basso crushing him - the greatest talent of all times *g* - in the Tour. He heard from what they did in their training time and tried to copy.
- Unfortunately - like Basso - he never actually got the blood transfused. But he intended to do so in 2006.

He said he wanted to comment on the situation today or tomorrow. Wait and see.

 

[Abstainer]

Not just the top 10, check out the top 20:

1. Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 86h 15' 02"
2. Ivan Basso (ITA) Team CSC +4' 40"
3. Jan Ullrich (GER) T-Mobile +6' 21"
4. Francisco Mancebo (ESP) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne +9' 59"
5. Alexandre Vinokourov (KAZ) T-Mobile +11' 01"
6. Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner +11' 21"
7. Michael Rasmussen (DEN) Rabobank +11' 33"
8. Cadel Evans (AUS) Davitamon-Lotto +11' 55"
9. Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak +12' 44"
10. Oscar Pereiro (ESP) Phonak +16' 04"
11. Christophe Moreau (FRA) Credit Agricole +16' 26"
12. Yaroslav Popovych (UKR) Discovery Channel +19' 02"
13. Eddy Mazzoleni (ITA) Lampre +21' 06"
14. George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel +23' 40"
15. Haimar Zubeldia (ESP) Euskaltel +23' 43"
16. Jörg Jaksche (GER) Liberty Seguros +24' 07"
17. Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC +24' 08"
18. Oscar Sevilla (ESP) T-Mobile +27' 45"
19. Andrey Kashechkin (KAZ) Credit Agricole +28' 04"
20. Giuseppe Guerini (ITA) T-Mobile +33' 02"

This list just underlines the absurdity of pointing to individuals and calling them cheats. To be a top rider in that era, you prepared with PEDS. End of story. The religious among you can be satisfied that none of the above are going to go heaven. But professional road racing (I say from 1990 to 2010, and I wouldn't bet any money that it shouldn't be from an earlier date to 2012) was never clean. So either ignore. Or accept the fact. Time for us all to move on, I think.

I'm also amazed to see people still calling Ullrich a great natural. Armstrong is often castigated (perhaps rightfully) for having boosted this talent with drugs. But Ullrich grew up in the East German drugs culture, he came to prominence in the pre-Festina madness, and he was transfusing with the best of them in the 2000s. Who is to say he was any more natural than the others? In the end, I have to say, I regard it as a closed chapter and I don't really care. But there are some peculiar views expressed here, I think.

 

[webvan]

I expect he will not adress anything what happened before 2005.
- Ullrich can still plead that he won clean in 1997 and placed a clean second in 1996, 1998, 2000, 2001 and 2003.
- Ullrich can still claim he won the Vuelta clean in 1999.
- Important to him: He won clean in 2000 Olympics
Everybody knows that this is doubtful, but nobody seems to be able to prove him wrong (not even his former teammates seem ready to point the finger at him).

As to the time from May 2005 on, he will state that he was tempted by Armstrong and Basso crushing him - the greatest talent of all times *g* - in the Tour. He heard from what they did in their training time and tried to copy.
- Unfortunately - like Basso - he never actually got the blood transfused. But he intended to do so in 2006.

He said he wanted to comment on the situation today or tomorrow. Wait and see.

No one will believe him if he says that, just like no one believed Basso's "intention to dope". His timeline has to be plausible, I think mine is, sure his 1997 is tainted, but from 1999 to 2004 he's "ok".

Based on the fact that he was depressed/burnt out last year, I don't think he'll go half-way as that would not make the "pain" go away. Either he says "fine, I'll take it like a man, no further comment" or "I'm going to clear my conscience, here's what really happened".

With Armstrong now scot free and his obvious need to do the "right thing" (he's a good unlike LA the bully), my vote is on #2 and he'll make us proud once again for having rooted for him when he was a racer.

PS - Pevenage pretty much paved the way for this plausible timeline in his L'Equipe interview from 2011 (or was it 2010 ?).

 

[craig1985]

This list just underlines the absurdity of pointing to individuals and calling them cheats. To be a top rider in that era, you prepared with PEDS. End of story. The religious among you can be satisfied that none of the above are going to go heaven. But professional road racing (I say from 1990 to 2010, and I wouldn't bet any money that it shouldn't be from an earlier date to 2012) was never clean. So either ignore. Or accept the fact. Time for us all to move on, I think.

I'm also amazed to see people still calling Ullrich a great natural. Armstrong is often castigated (perhaps rightfully) for having boosted this talent with drugs. But Ullrich grew up in the East German drugs culture, he came to prominence in the pre-Festina madness, and he was transfusing with the best of them in the 2000s. Who is to say he was any more natural than the others? In the end, I have to say, I regard it as a closed chapter and I don't really care. But there are some peculiar views expressed here, I think.

Why would 2011 all of a sudden be cleaner than 2010 or 2008?

 

[SiAp1984]

No one will believe him if he says that, just like no one believed Basso's "intention to dope". His timeline has to be plausible, I think mine is, sure his 1997 is tainted, but from 1999 to 2004 he's "ok".

Based on the fact that he was depressed/burnt out last year, I don't think he'll go half-way as that would not make the "pain" go away. Either he says "fine, I'll take it like a man, no further comment" or "I'm going to clear my conscience, here's what really happened".

With Armstrong now scot free and his obvious need to do the "right thing" (he's a good unlike LA the bully), my vote is on #2 and he'll make us proud once again for having rooted for him when he was a racer.

PS - Pevenage pretty much paved the way for this plausible timeline in his L'Equipe interview from 2011 (or was it 2010 ?).

I hope that you are right. I would like it if he really came clean. However, I just don't believe he will.

 

[Abstainer]

Why would 2011 all of a sudden be cleaner than 2010 or 2008?

In truth, I don't believe it is. But I think that it is harder to take quite the same quantities of drugs as before, which means they have a less distorting effect. Which if true, I can live with.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Could have been worse, but still is a farce.

While Contador basically is banned 1/2 year in his prime, Ullrich got stolen at least 2 years (2006-2008) and now another 2 years from 2011 to 2013. Scapegoat like Rasmussen. But the biggest joke is that the corrupt animal and Über-Doper Armstrong got cleared by UCI´s Virjam.

If i´d be Ullrich i would deny everything like Armstrong, just to pi$$ UCI and all the other hypocrites in the face.

 

[Abstainer]

But the biggest joke is that the corrupt animal and Über-Doper Armstrong got cleared by UCI´s Virjam.

I think it is an act of almost religious faith to claim that Ullrich was not an Über-Doper too.

 

[Stingray34]

Der Jan was retired for years but the UCI insisted on a pound of flesh. Armstrong was racing and the UCI regarded doping allegations as being 'in the past, we must look forward.'

Hey Kimmage, you need to take this inconsistency up and run with it.

 

[Benotti69]

Not just the top 10, check out the top 20:

1. Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 86h 15' 02"
2. Ivan Basso (ITA) Team CSC +4' 40"
3. Jan Ullrich (GER) T-Mobile +6' 21"
4. Francisco Mancebo (ESP) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne +9' 59"
5. Alexandre Vinokourov (KAZ) T-Mobile +11' 01"
6. Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner +11' 21"
7. Michael Rasmussen (DEN) Rabobank +11' 33"
8. Cadel Evans (AUS) Davitamon-Lotto +11' 55"
9. Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak +12' 44"
10. Oscar Pereiro (ESP) Phonak +16' 04"
11. Christophe Moreau (FRA) Credit Agricole +16' 26"
12. Yaroslav Popovych (UKR) Discovery Channel +19' 02"
13. Eddy Mazzoleni (ITA) Lampre +21' 06"
14. George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel +23' 40"
15. Haimar Zubeldia (ESP) Euskaltel +23' 43"
16. Jörg Jaksche (GER) Liberty Seguros +24' 07"
17. Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC +24' 08"
18. Oscar Sevilla (ESP) T-Mobile +27' 45"
19. Andrey Kashechkin (KAZ) Credit Agricole +28' 04"
20. Giuseppe Guerini (ITA) T-Mobile +33' 02"

sad thing about that list is some of these are still riding now in what are being told is a 'cleaner' era. How much cleaner 10%, 50%???

For any Evans fans, just look who he finished ahead of?

 

[guncha]

Bye bye Ullrich. Loses results from May 2005. Mancebo makes podium.

This is ridicilous because Mancebo was also involved in the same affair but has not beet targeted by the authorities.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Der Jan was retired for years but the UCI insisted on a pound of flesh. Armstrong was racing and the UCI regarded doping allegations as being 'in the past, we must look forward.'

Hey Kimmage, you need to take this inconsistency up and run with it.

Yep, and then they (UCI) had the impertinence to demand a life ban for a 5 year retired rider. Pharmstrong must have been still annoyed that Ullrich possesed the boldness to beat him by 1 1/2 minutes in the 2003 ITT. That bothered him, so hed to do something about it and intstructed his spineless twerps at the UCI.

 

[Benotti69]

if they can...

“as it is established that Jan Ullrich was fully engaged with Dr. Fuentes' doping programe at least from that date.”

....why cant they establish the rest of the riders?

More circus performances.

 

[Benotti69]

Yep, and then they (UCI) had the impertinence to demand a life ban for a 5 year retired rider. Pharmstrong must have been still annoyed that Ullrich possesed the boldness to beat him by 1 1/2 minutes in the 2003 ITT. That bothered him, so hed to do something about it and intstructed his spineless twerps at the UCI.

Yep when you look at McQuiad and squint you can just see the strings.

UCI what a joke!

 

[Stingray34]

Yep, and then they (UCI) had the impertinence to demand a life ban for a 5 year retired rider. Pharmstrong must have been still annoyed that Ullrich possesed the boldness to beat him by 1 1/2 minutes in the 2003 ITT. That bothered him, so hed to do something about it and intstructed his spineless twerps at the UCI.

I'm starting to warm to your optimism we'll see justice. Right now, things are just so asymmetrical to last. Or F.U.B.A.R is more like it.

 

[SantiBotero]

I'm stunned with the CAS, UCI and WADA, i truly believed that this institutions were working for a better cycling, but now - hell no, who the **** cares anything on Ullrich now? Why? He was retired, the results were archived, the past was done and this decision only has two consequences: destroy even more the cycling reputation and has the ironic consequence of promoting one Mancebo, Vinokourov and Landis. Ullrich has to be disgusted with this.

We have in a week a guy suspended two years because maybe he ingested a contamined suplement that had one trillionth of a gram of a not-sporting enhancing substance in his body; and now we have a guy suspended because he doped seven years ago.

What's next - maybe Merckx?

 

[Benotti69]

I'm starting to warm to your optimism we'll see justice. Right now, things are just so asymmetrical to last. Or F.U.B.A.R is more like it.

F.U.B.A.R would be a good name for the UCI.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Don't know what to think of this now.
They are always good for some surprises, regarding timelines, decisions and jurisdiction responsibility.

There is indeed a lot of arbitrariness in TAS / CAS, Tribunal Arbital du sport / Court of arbitration for sport.

It's obvious, isn't it ?

Looking forward to the new results and revolutionized podium awards.
It might especially be very ridiculous when it comes to the TdS 06, which was a pure showing of Fuente's client power.
Most of them were never sanctioned of course.

Anyway, happy they made some sense with the amphetamines. Can't have it all.

 

[roundabout]

if they can...

“as it is established that Jan Ullrich was fully engaged with Dr. Fuentes' doping programe at least from that date.”

....why cant they establish the rest of the riders?

More circus performances.

IIRC it was legally possible to hand over the information on foreign riders.

At least this is the reason I heard.

 

[Stingray34]

F.U.B.A.R would be a good name for the UCI.

And Phat Pat is SNAFU in Chief

 

[Sciocco]

What's next - maybe Merckx?

Already so.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I'm starting to warm to your optimism we'll see justice. Right now, things are just so asymmetrical to last. Or F.U.B.A.R is more like it.

Yes can´t stand like this. I´ll have to do something. I think i`ll write another letter to UCI. And just let us all write letters to UCI sponsors about boycotts until this mess is straigtened.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Der Jan was retired for years but the UCI insisted on a pound of flesh. Armstrong was racing and the UCI regarded doping allegations as being 'in the past, we must look forward.'

Hey Kimmage, you need to take this inconsistency up and run with it.

yes, that Carpani comment was really funny.
I went to bed after reading this.

 

[Benotti69]

And Phat Pat is SNAFU in Chief

Bingo !.....