Jan Ullrich

[Benotti69]

I think there is another aspect, the idea of a Texan going to France and beating them at "their game." Hard to underestimate that factor, it's practically a romantic story to many Americans.

The last Frenchman to win TdF before Armstrong was Hinault in 1985, a good 14 years before 1999.

It was no longer their game for a long time, that is a 'Lanceism'.

 

[thehog]

The last Frenchman to win TdF before Armstrong was Hinault in 1985, a good 14 years before 1999.

It was no longer their game for a long time, that is a 'Lanceism'.

I recently saw an article titled "Now the French go after Contador" in obvious reference to the Lance era and the French.

Little do most American's know that the French had nothing to do with Contador being sidelined. It just fits the story neatly.

 

[stainlessguy1]

I think there is another aspect, the idea of a Texan going to France and beating them at "their game." Hard to underestimate that factor, it's practically a romantic story to many Americans.



There are a couple factors here that I think are important to note. First off, in parts of Europe there are some pretty harsh penalties for doping, guys have gone to jail (if I'm not mistaken, Mr. Longo sat in jail just within the last week)and that imbalance sort of forces it in to the eyes of the fans. Specifically, the French have been less competitive for a fairly long time and it's suggested by many that it has something to do with their sporting fraud laws unleveling their playing field. Fans of French riders get a different deal than fans of Spanish riders. That raises the issue in a way that makes it hard to brush it off.

The other thing of note, the American sports media isn't really media. Not like media meaning journalism at least, it's media like fans with access. It enables, and that's not an accident. Take Tiger Woods, there are guys that are paid to follow him, talk to him, and they knew his lifestyle and it was never news because he'd cut them off. Michael Jordan was famous for it, he'd hold grudges if you spoke about him the wrong way, it basically made Ahmad Rashad's career because he had access to MJ. The guys in the media have access and to avoid losing the access they avoid talking about certain things. The best you'll get in American sports as far as doping goes is a discussion about whether known dopers are worthy for the hall of fame. It's big time money and big time entertainment and there has been such a complete lack of "journalism" for ages, it won't change.

It's really unfortunate how cycling forces the issue by having inconsistent treatment of athletes. UCI is part of the problem, they tolerate it...

Very Good , and on that subject: The only thing that will bring a big money man down in America is if your caught sleeping with another women. ( Tiger Woods). The performance dopping is just a side show. So a man really has to redeem himself with a public 2 to 4 year penalty to get back in the spot light for that. In Europe , especially latin countries (according to hollywood) , tend to joke about the love at lunch , and at night going home to their wives. They have to take the 2 year penalty for doping . Kindof different perspectives . I think you can name all the politicians that were in the spot light and one by one they fell for encounters of the third kind.
Likewise in Europe you can be photographed toasting with a beer at a political meeting or the like ,But in North America this will almost never happen that a politician is photographed toasting or saluting with a real drink in his hand.
In America we salute Heros . The bigger the better. North America has the best cartoons and the best movie making abilities in the world . The ideology is enshrined in the young because we watch more TV than any other nation on the planet. WE know actors and their lives off by heart but cant do much math , WE are conditioned to accept Heros like Captain America that have a small skinny boy with heart become a super hero because he was injected with a super serum that made him so , ( and this is all ok ) Under the pretense the other bad guy also has a super serum ( Usually a Big Bad German or Big Bad Russian guy, because they are hollywoods favourite bad guys) WE come up with expressions like give it 110% , leave it on the field or taking one for the team.
So in short , nothing will become of Captain Lance America , as he is a super hero and America needed him so much at a time when Mcdonalds still spent millions of dollars supersizing people .
WE have to salute Captain L America for surviving the battle of the tours and changing the way we look at ourselves , and he lived to tell the tale no matter how much blue and green serum was pumped into him .
So That is The Great Dream. One that only celluloid can deliver .
( start credits and final feel good music here at prompt)

 

[SiAp1984]

That poor soul was just 30 seconds back after 19 stages.

It must have been something around 3:30 after that ITT That Vuelta win by Ullrich was similar to Contadors Giro 2008. Ullrich then came back from a long injury break and without long training (of course not completely without training, just as Contador who, I bet, did not arrive straight from the beach...) took GC honours and even one road stage in a kind of mass sprint minus the sprinters when he narrowly beat Olano(!)... weird race that was :-D. Ullrich rarely won sprints, the only other similar wins of his might be the first stage in the 2004 TdS and his 1993 amateur worlds title; but in the Vuelta, the group was way larger then in the other occasions mentioned here.

 

[The Plediadian]

Good point. I should have said in the "modern" era.

I think before Andersen Simpson was probably the only other English speaking rider with a chance at winning the Tour.

We digress.

I watched some of those Ullrich youTubes; now that the results don't actually mean anything you can really see who was probably the best rider going around. Fit or unfit he still looked so good on a bike.

Perhaps history will be kind and we'll look back and see that Jan was probably the true champion of that era.

The modern era began when most of the clinic haters began watching cycling, with their Dells in about 2001.

 

[Cobblestoned]

OMG, where has that thread gone.
And some certain posters, especially the one who's disgusting approach was pointed out by me several times, have really topped my worst expectations.
Make that fears.
I relatively don't really care much what they do with Lance, I just respect him, but when our Ullrich is ONLY used as a tool to satisfy their crazy obsession and to paint their world how they like it to be, when they glorify him and support his victim-approach in a manner and style that is more than just embarrassing and absurd, in a manner that can't be honest, even use lies and their usual reading between the lines and reality blurring, then, as a true, and more than active supporter over more than a a decade, it hurts me and I can't tolerate this.
It nearly upsets me more than Mr. Ullrichs statement, which was another created, not from this earth advisor-piece that was juristicly checked.

We think Jan's part on this went close to Zero. But he makes the decisions.
And believe me, it even upset most German VIP fanboys and fangirls. Those really hard ones. They feel uncomfortable and can't believe he still didn't change his approach. Still playing the victim- and several other cards.
Where was that thread gone to ?
It was really interesting and enriching to read several opinions, mostly those of some various multiple rare guests/posters who gave their clear and honest statement.....and they made a lot of sense which was calming me a little bit down.
Still thinking about the question if some posters and posts are really worth the energy and beeing decomposed into parts. I know they don't care.
But some things really have to be pointed out AGAIN.

This time, its some posters approach is so much obvious, even the tin-foil hats won't help them to ignore. Anyway, I won't and never did allow that Jan is materialized for their own perversions.
Yesterday, it really ended in perversion and goes on....
And right now, I don't post with my usual funny face on, and no smilies included.
It's not good when this happens. It often rings the "no smilie included?, so he is really upset" alarm sirens of people who know me.

I will perhaps start with page 37 later, when I am cool again. Might take a while.

 

[The Plediadian]

German media as well as sports organisations will rip Ullrich till his very last day. That's the sad thing. For them Ullrich is the big evil. Ullrich gets blamed for everything. Ullrich takes all the sins of german sports.
Everything else gets covered by the Ullrich story. Ullrich is not usefull for them anymore, he doesn't earn them money anymore. So they discredit him wherever they can.
They don't care about the truth, as least as they care about dpoing of their beloved cash cow soccer players and wintersport stars.

What really peeves me about the Ullrich issue, is the attitude the German journalists have taken to vilify and harass him.
Because they never bring up all those German Olympic medals.(East and West.)
Such denial by the German press. Just smackdown Jan, over and over. Great to see Jan man up, I look forward to seeing the German journalists embarrassed for their utter and full hypocrisy.

 

[joe_papp]

Step-off, Dr. Franke!

...BTW, the good Doctor Franke is disappointed by Ulle's statement : http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ullrichs-explanation-met-with-disappointment-in-germany - I suppose good Doctor Franke never even once broke some rules slightly ? Really a witch hunt isn't .

I personally think Dr. Werner Franke should step-off and leave Jan Ullrich alone. People like the good doctor give anti-doping a bad, persecutory, name and his obsession with breaking Ullrich verges on pathological.

What really peeves me about the Ullrich issue, is the attitude the German journalists have taken to vilify and harass him.
Because they never bring up all those German Olympic medals.(East and West.)
Such denial by the German press. Just smackdown Jan, over and over. Great to see Jan man up, I look forward to seeing the German journalists embarrassed for their utter and full hypocrisy.

I agree. I personally will not even talk to reporters like that, ones who aren't willing to acknowledge and address the complexities of the doping dilemma and the reality that you can be a nice/normal/good person and still make decisions that reflect poorly upon you - but without losing your essential goodness or humanity.

Ullrich is not necessarily any different than the rest w/ respect to the fact that he sought forbidden assistance...but it doesn't change the fact that he is still a kind, compassionate person who cares about people other than his family on a person-to-person basis. In short, he is worthy of being defended not for cheating but for not deserving to be hounded back into isolation. His "confession" will not be satisfying to anti-doping zealots but they should accept it as a partial victory and move on to actually fighting doping in real-time - not persecuting those unlucky few who were both its practitioners and its victims but escaped from that world.

Ullrich is not trying to manage a team in the Tour de France, and he's not trying to coach or be a riders' agent. Let him ride granfondo's to his heart's content and you who say you like cycling, enjoy the beauty of the spectacle of such a natural and talented athlete who never left behind his essential humanness to become a robotic machine or extraterrestrial, unlike some of his competitors...

 

[Neworld]

That poor soul was just 30 seconds back after 19 stages.

I guess I need to watch the video, which I have not.

Assuming that the start times for an ITT are either 2 or 3 minutes apart...my 'deal soul' comment was related to the fact that Jan caught him and had probably put 3 minutes into him. Not many people do that?

Anyway, Ulle is pure tranquility during ITTs. Sure wish there were Power meters available back then, so that I could review is output and biometric data.

Still searching for any clue on his VO2 max...I would think that Bavarianrider or FoxxyBrown1111 might know or could find out...maybe?

NW

 

[Neworld]

OMG, where has that thread gone.
And some certain posters, especially the one who's disgusting approach was pointed out by me several times, have really topped my worst expectations.
Make that fears.
I relatively don't really care much what they do with Lance, I just respect him, but when our Ullrich is ONLY used as a tool to satisfy their crazy obsession and to paint their world how they like it to be, when they glorify him and support his victim-approach in a manner and style that is more than just embarrassing and absurd, in a manner that can't be honest, even use lies and their usual reading between the lines and reality blurring, then, as a true, and more than active supporter over more than a a decade, it hurts me and I can't tolerate this.
It nearly upsets me more than Mr. Ullrichs statement, which was another created, not from this earth advisor-piece that was juristicly checked.

We think Jan's part on this went close to Zero. But he makes the decisions.
And believe me, it even upset most German VIP fanboys and fangirls. Those really hard ones. They feel uncomfortable and can't believe he still didn't change his approach. Still playing the victim- and several other cards.
Where was that thread gone to ?
It was really interesting and enriching to read several opinions, mostly those of some various multiple rare guests/posters who gave their clear and honest statement.....and they made a lot of sense which was calming me a little bit down.
Still thinking about the question if some posters and posts are really worth the energy and beeing decomposed into parts. I know they don't care.
But some things really have to be pointed out AGAIN.

This time, its some posters approach is so much obvious, even the tin-foil hats won't help them to ignore. Anyway, I won't and never did allow that Jan is materialized for their own perversions.
Yesterday, it really ended in perversion and goes on....
And right now, I don't post with my usual funny face on, and no smilies included.
It's not good when this happens. It often rings the "no smilie included?, so he is really upset" alarm sirens of people who know me.

I will perhaps start with page 37 later, when I am cool again. Might take a while.

Hunh? Really I'm trying to understand.

NW

 

[Cobblestoned]

You know why Jan and several other really talented, more moderate, not limitless, reasonable and still lifeloving riders/dopers
had to "face" this ? And this has nothing to do with Omerta.
Because of an untalented, unreasonable, limitless, sad and characterless guy, who nearly doped himself or made others dope him to death, who wanted to push the limit of every single word in "performance-enhancing", even only for some little glory. Even too stupid to dope, and too stupid to notice the obvious.

All this happend because we want, and because HAVE to protect such guys from themselves. What is really positive and gratifying, that such guys
are rare. Really rare.
In real life, outside of any sports, those guys would end as a so called "drugdead".
Anyway, there is a little Jesus in all of us. And sometimes even Jesus needs help.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Hunh? Really I'm trying to understand.

NW

I don't think so.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Our local newspaper (Aachener Nachrichten) had a huge Ullrich story on the first page of the sports section. It was so full of errors I was totally disgusted.....

Susan

Ok, they have no clue and no real interest in cycling. Did you really expect something else ?

Didn't see it, but I could reproduce your feeling about this when I read on this thread.
There must have been a Bavarian involved in producing that article.

 

[Sciatic]

I don't think so.

Y
Actually, Cobblestoned, I am just reading along here and it really IS hard to understand what you're saying in your last couple of long posts because they are so dense and also a bit convoluted. I obviously can't write a single sentence in what ever your native tongue is, so I'm not criticizing, but rather just trying to follow what you're trying to say about Ulle and Germany,s current opinions about him.
Thanks

 

[Christian]

Now they say Jan might not be allowed to ride the cyclosportive in Bielefeld this year. I say this is an outrage and without him there the race will be a joke. It is the Jedermann event of the year and this year's edition will forever be tainted. The winner will always have to hear "Yes, but if Jan had been there...". They are trying to take our heroes. What's next? I'm sure soon they'll say Michael Schumacher won't race anymore and Günther Grass was in the SS.

In order to protest this outrageous circumstance I am currently trying to get my grandpa to go into hungerstrike. If you are with me on this I strongly suggest you do the same. If you only have a grandma left, that's fine too. A protest march sponsored by Alpecin will be held from Bielefeld to Gütersloh some time next month so just go ahead and block your calendar. Bring your starving grandpa to voice your support!

 

[stainlessguy1]

Now they say Jan might not be allowed to ride the cyclosportive in Bielefeld this year. I say this is an outrage and without him there the race will be a joke. It is the Jedermann event of the year and this year's edition will forever be tainted. The winner will always have to hear "Yes, but if Jan had been there...". They are trying to take our heroes. What's next? I'm sure soon they'll say Michael Schumacher won't race anymore and Günther Grass was in the SS.

In order to protest this outrageous circumstance I am currently trying to get my grandpa to go into hungerstrike. If you are with me on this I strongly suggest you do the same. If you only have a grandma left, that's fine too. A protest march sponsored by Alpecin will be held from Bielefeld to Gütersloh some time next month so just go ahead and block your calendar. Bring your starving grandpa to voice your support!

Never mind the hunger strike ,

Jan can ride any unlicensed event (if he doesnt hold a racing license) , to my knowledge , fundraisers and cyclosportif events , are for all commers . Even if an amateur license were held , the minute that license is suspended the rider becomes a civilian again . So cyclo sportif away until your heart is content .
The administrative morons are all off their rocker . Jan has served enough time , every other cyclist has had time served from infraction dates as counted standard issue penalty , why does Jan have to pay for it 3 times over.

I say all the administrative morons should be made to WALK THE PLANK ,,,ARRRRgggggghhhhhhh !
Its all a crock of BS , go ahead Jan , ride for health.

 

[Bavarianrider]

I guess I need to watch the video, which I have not.

Assuming that the start times for an ITT are either 2 or 3 minutes apart...my 'deal soul' comment was related to the fact that Jan caught him and had probably put 3 minutes into him. Not many people do that?

Anyway, Ulle is pure tranquility during ITTs. Sure wish there were Power meters available back then, so that I could review is output and biometric data.

Still searching for any clue on his VO2 max...I would think that Bavarianrider or FoxxyBrown1111 might know or could find out...maybe?

NW

I am not sure i've read 85 somewhere. But i don't know if it is true.
But i have another intersting story. Jan said that the day before his ban from the 2006 Tour, his resting heart rate was measured at 28! The lowest ever in his career. I think this gives a hint that Ullrich really would have been in in super dooper shape for the 06 Tour.

 

[Neworld]

I am not sure i've read 85 somewhere. But i don't know if it is true.
But i have another intersting story. Jan said that the day before his ban from the 2006 Tour, his resting heart rate was measured at 28! The lowest ever in his career. I think this gives a hint that Ullrich really would have been in in super dooper shape for the 06 Tour.

Thank you.

Interesting. If looks counts for anything, he appeared ready to fly in the mountains and drag trains on the flats.

NW

 

[webvan]

So it's official, he's banned from any race sanctioned by the BDR http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/german-federation-bars-ullrich-from-cyclo-sportives and of course the pounding continues, there are some scary people in Germany...

 

[stainlessguy1]

So it's official, he's banned from any race sanctioned by the BDR http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/german-federation-bars-ullrich-from-cyclo-sportives and of course the pounding continues, there are some scary people in Germany...

It might be official but , I guess they better not call them races then , which they are not. If you have ever seen an episode of the events , for all commers, its a ride at best. That is all . The BDR likes to call everything races especially since they like their name tied to it all to make things super official . AS if that all matters when thousands of people leave the start line in groups of 50 or so .
I mean if it werent called something special no one would go .
Well , i guess 2 years will be up soon , just keep on riding Jan . You are still young and we are now old, and still fans , If we can come back to ride , so can you . I say dont lose any sleep over it . I wouldnt .

 

[Bavarianrider]

Especially funny considering the fact that in those "Jedermanrennen" it is a well known secret that juicing is absolutely widespread.

 

[Von Mises]

To be honest the process has made the UCI look a little silly. Their statements in regards to Armstrong and the way that Ullrich has been nailed to the wall has backfired in some ways. It’s made the sport look silly. I don’t think many care about the re-adjustment of the results but having Mancebo and Basso win stages and step onto the podium is just crazy.

Just when you think the sport is getting a little more sane this sort of stuff crops up. That’s the problem with the UCI tolerance policy on doping. By allowing some more latitude than others comes back to haunt them years down the line.

I agree, but if we have reached already to this point, what is the better solution? Drop Ullrich case too? What makes this situation unfair is not what happened to Ullrich, but that other dopers get of the hook and Armstrong is not the only (though, the most obvious) one. And I also agree with Escarabajo´s interpretation, that Ullric verdict will not help Armstrong, but shows once again what cycling was back then. Every bit of information what comes out from that era is good news.

 

[Stingray34]

How exactly will anyone stop Jan riding in his sponsor's sportif? As far as they're concerned, they just want his smiling face at the start and he can go for a ride.

I can understand the other sportifs not wanting Jan because it may affect their accreditation or what-not to some cycling institution, but really, is anyone going to stand in front of him and hold his handlebars? He's not competing in these things. His appearance is commercial not competitve.

 

[rzombie1988]

The new ban is so childlish. Seriously, does the German federation really think Jan cares? The man is loaded.

I think it's really impressive how the UCI and all of the federations hurt themselves more for banning someone than gaining from "bringing justice".

 

[personal]

Maybe he should move to Switzerland, or Austria, or Italy. This is ridiculous.