Jan Ullrich

[thehog]

Maybe he should move to Switzerland, or Austria, or Italy. This is ridiculous.

He lives in Swizterland not Germany.

I don't think he cares to be honest. Why ride in a country which has betrayed you?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

But i have another intersting story. Jan said that the day before his ban from the 2006 Tour, his resting heart rate was measured at 28! The lowest ever in his career. I think this gives a hint that Ullrich really would have been in in super dooper shape for the 06 Tour.

All the dopers handled in different ways:

What a farce we´ve got.

Instead of an epic battle between Basso who just won the Giro by 9 mins., and Ullrich in best ever shape; we got Floyd Landis´ positive, thus Pereiro Sio a blood doper won b/c of a lucky break in front of another blood doper Klöden.

The comish: The best riders got DQed, the "2nd stringers" were/are allowed to ride on.

And nothing is better in 2012. The best is gone, and the All-Time-Über-Doper is turning another sport into a mess (Epo-Lance Pharmstrong i speak of).

UCI/ASO/CAS/WADA/"Doping-Jäger"-like-Dr.-Franke: All the same BS and hypocrites. Quote Metallica in a sarcastic way: "Kill´em all", and start anew.

 

[personal]

He lives in Swizterland not Germany.

I don't think he cares to be honest. Why ride in a country which has betrayed you?

Because he loves riding?

It seems that he is well recieved among people and he would probably enjoy riding as amateur.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Can´t be deleted by the double standard operators of the UCI/CAS.

TdS 2006, Jan Ullrich on the Podium.

 

[Anonymous]

This is a loooong thread so i didn't really read it thoroughly. So can anyone please explain me how come Jan Ullrich got 2yrs starting from recently, even though CAS deleted his 2last years or so of competition results but didn't calculate that deleted period into his suspension. For Alberto Contador however they've deleted his results starting from the 2010 Tour and calculated that deleted period into his suspension so he has to serve only 6months. I'm not sayin' anything against AC, but i just don't understand objective differences in those 2 cases...

 

[webvan]

Because they can!

 

[Cloxxki]

The hard part will be to come up with yet another solution for the next doper to come along and have a dragging case. One certainty in life: they'll find a new way to treat the next doper.

While I sortof like Jan's consistency in saying nothing, I'd appreciate a tell-all more. We all agree he's a good guy, but when others before him admitted and said nothing (Dekker for instance?) we tended to hate them for it. We need to be consistent also.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

This is a loooong thread so i didn't really read it thoroughly. So can anyone please explain me how come Jan Ullrich got 2yrs starting from recently, even though CAS deleted his 2last years or so of competition results but didn't calculate that deleted period into his suspension. For Alberto Contador however they've deleted his results starting from the 2010 Tour and calculated that deleted period into his suspension so he has to serve only 6months. I'm not sayin' anything against AC, but i just don't understand objective differences in those 2 cases...

That is what most of us wonder. Look, the UCI/CAS/WADA are purely arbitrary.
The most eye popping example next to Ullrich is Rasmussen: He got DQed in the TdF without a positive, yet his successor AC got handed the TdF-Victory in 2007, even tough he was on the Fuentes-List. It´s not only double standards applied, no, it´s bizar, a complete farce.

In (at least for his cortico positives) 1999 Armstrong is covered up by the UCI. Basically they handed him the TdF-Victory.

Now: Aldag is still in business, yet he confessed to have doped. No ban at all.
Klöden is connected to blood doping in Freiburg, he´s still racing. Ullrich in retirement is handed a ban.



Man, until Festina it was fairer. All the dopers got handled the same way: no bans. It was fairer back then. That´s the amazing thing about this mess called UCI.

My reason to boycott everything connected to this totally corrupt organization.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

While I sortof like Jan's consistency in saying nothing, I'd appreciate a tell-all more. We all agree he's a good guy, but when others before him admitted and said nothing (Dekker for instance?) we tended to hate them for it. We need to be consistent also.

I understand your point. But now ask yourself: Would you confess to anything more than what is proved? He could lose everything, since we know nothing is sure with rulings of UCI/CAS. He would only please Dr. Franke and other witch hunters. He can´t win anything. And those who hate him won´t change there minds anyway. No matter what Ullrich does.

Conclusion: The way he did talk now, he did it absolutely perfectly.

 

[Von Mises]

That is what most of us wonder. Look, the UCI/CAS/WADA are purely arbitrary.
The most eye popping example next to Ullrich is Rasmussen: He got DQed in the TdF without a positive, yet his successor AC got handed the TdF-Victory in 2007, even tough he was on the Fuentes-List. It´s not only double standards applied, no, it´s bizar, a complete farce.

It was not UCI who DQ-d Rasmussen, it was Rabobank who fired Rasmussen during TDF. And btw, Danish Cycling Union had already banned Rasmussen form olympics and world road race, this decision was made already in June, but came to public during TDF.

I am not saying that UCI is not corrupt or UCI does not mismanage things, but sometimes there are also other parties involved.

 

[Stingray34]

This is a loooong thread so i didn't really read it thoroughly. So can anyone please explain me how come Jan Ullrich got 2yrs starting from recently, even though CAS deleted his 2last years or so of competition results but didn't calculate that deleted period into his suspension. For Alberto Contador however they've deleted his results starting from the 2010 Tour and calculated that deleted period into his suspension so he has to serve only 6months. I'm not sayin' anything against AC, but i just don't understand objective differences in those 2 cases...

Very good point...and welcome to the forum!

I guess the Court of Arbitration for Sport really specialise in the arbitrariness. Perhaps this abridged suspension in the deal everyone suspected. The ban you get when you're not really getting a ban. Like Basso, Contador has been allowed to race in every season, therefore keeping his racing chops. By contrast, what they're subjecting Ullrich to smacks of spiteful scapegoating.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

It was not UCI who DQ-d Rasmussen, it was Rabobank who fired Rasmussen during TDF. And btw, Danish Cycling Union had already banned Rasmussen form olympics and world road race, this decision was made already in June, but came to public during TDF.

I am not saying that UCI is not corrupt or UCI does not mismanage things, but sometimes there are also other parties involved.

AFIR, actually it was ASO who forced Rabo to fire him during the TdF. I have nothing against Clerc, but if he was consequently, he would have thrown out AC too. By not doing it, many of us felt pranked!

Maybe the UCI had nothing to do with it. I guess they´d have prefered the good old "under the carpet sweep".

Whatever. They all interact together with different ways to look at things. The result is the mish mash of rulings. No matter how we (the fans) look at it: It´s a farce and we get robbed and annoyed by all those applied double standards.

Ban all (dopers) or none.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Very good point...and welcome to the forum!

I guess the Court of Arbitration for Sport really specialise in the arbitrariness. Perhaps this abridged suspension in the deal everyone suspected. The ban you get when you're not really getting a ban. Like Basso, Contador has been allowed to race in every season, therefore keeping his racing chops. By contrast, what they're subjecting Ullrich to smacks of spiteful scapegoating.

Absolutely. 1+

 

[Cloxxki]

I understand your point. But now ask yourself: Would you confess to anything more than what is proved? He could lose everything, since we know nothing is sure with rulings of UCI/CAS. He would only please Dr. Franke and other witch hunters. He can´t win anything. And those who hate him won´t change there minds anyway. No matter what Ullrich does.

Conclusion: The way he did talk now, he did it absolutely perfectly.

If Jan is as good a guy as we think he is, should be be all zen now to be done with this? No, there is a huge amount of un-fairplay that has not been properly documented nor acknowledged.
There have been some before him who told more. I prefer Landis over Ullrich at this point, even if his positive leaves some questions unanswered, within or outside his ability to explain at this stage. He cut loose, and didn't seem to hide much worth rediculing or hating him over.

Jan as a lover of the sport could do the sport a favor with an good (over)dose of truth. With a good publisher, he could share the whol truth, on his terms, putting it in the context he chooses. If he doped to be the best doper out there (which I doubt), even that's better than letting us guessing, or wait for insider to leak bit and pieces over the years.
Let Jan tell all. His feeling and thoughts as he was chasing LA much like the tortous did the hare. How it affected him mid-race, at the finish, and off-season. If he has a rich inner world, it will not only be awesome reading/viewing (by all means Jan, make your own movie, don't hold back), but also offer both the lovers, hater, crusaders and ignorant, something to learn from.
If he's such a good guy (I want to believe), let him do the right thing now, not on this deathbed such as Fignon. He really should talk to Landis, they might get along.

 

[webvan]

I'd like to say +1 but I'm afraid the harm is done, look Landis admitted to everything and more except to what took him down (too painful to admit?), misdosing of the testosterone cream/patch he put on his chest/sack, so you have to wonder what else he is still lying about...a problem, among others, for the US Attorney General apparently. These guys chose to lie at one point, certainly because it seemed to be their best option at the time, well that's too bad.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

If Jan is as good a guy as we think he is, should be be all zen now to be done with this? No, there is a huge amount of un-fairplay that has not been properly documented nor acknowledged.
There have been some before him who told more. I prefer Landis over Ullrich at this point, even if his positive leaves some questions unanswered, within or outside his ability to explain at this stage. He cut loose, and didn't seem to hide much worth rediculing or hating him over.

Jan as a lover of the sport could do the sport a favor with an good (over)dose of truth. With a good publisher, he could share the whol truth, on his terms, putting it in the context he chooses. If he doped to be the best doper out there (which I doubt), even that's better than letting us guessing, or wait for insider to leak bit and pieces over the years.
Let Jan tell all. His feeling and thoughts as he was chasing LA much like the tortous did the hare. How it affected him mid-race, at the finish, and off-season. If he has a rich inner world, it will not only be awesome reading/viewing (by all means Jan, make your own movie, don't hold back), but also offer both the lovers, hater, crusaders and ignorant, something to learn from.
If he's such a good guy (I want to believe), let him do the right thing now, not on this deathbed such as Fignon. He really should talk to Landis, they might get along.

Again, ask yourself.
If i would be Ullrich. I could not tell the whole truth now.
1.) I would be in danger to lose everything. I have no other job than the little rest of my reputation. The fans who love me, love me anyway.
2.) I would fall into another depression. The guy who forced me into the ugliest style of doping (i think it´s a big difference to get blood transfusions with all kinds of risks, than to inject some small amounts of "medicine"), is still milking millions of dollars out of naive fans. I see him being successful with lies and denies. So why should I talk? Not only that the less talented guy, who was/is obsessed with über doping, "beat" me every year; no he earned the reputation i should have get. Simply b/c i was the better rider on natural skills.
3.) I can not be free until Armstrong is fully uncovered as the biggest cheat story ever. Bigger than Ben Johnson or Marion Jones or Barry Bonds. The next day after his fall, i can give a full confession and can reasonably argue why i had to blood dope to at least gain a little bit back to how real results would have looked like. Well, i was unsuccessful, b/c i couldn´t dope as heavy as Armstrong, otherwise i would have risked death. Something that seems to be indifferent to Armstrong. Normal results should have looked like in 1996/97 when i dropped him by 28 mins in mountain stages and 6 mins in ITT´s.

 

[Cloxxki]

I'd like to say +1 but I'm afraid the harm is done, look Landis admitted to everything and more except to what took him down (too painful to admit?), misdosing of the testosterone cream/patch he put on his chest/sack, so you have to wonder what else he is still lying about...a problem, among others, for the US Attorney General apparently. These guys chose to lie at one point, certainly because it seemed to be their best option at the time, well that's too bad.

I have hopes Landis was "simply" tricked. Or made an error of some kind. Both could have been done through his transfusions.

Perhaps there will always be questions, of course we're being served the truth dish by the man we know has a history of poisoning food. It's natural and healthy to leave room for doubt, but please let it not stand in the way of truth and openness, for the betterment of the future.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Again, ask yourself.
If i would be Ullrich. I could not tell the whole truth now.
1.) I would be in danger to lose everything. I have no other job than the little rest of my reputation. The fans who love me, love me anyway.
2.) I would fall into another depression. The guy who forced me into the ugliest style of doping (i think it´s a big difference to get blood transfusions with all kinds of risks, than to inject some small amounts of "medicine"), is still milking millions of dollars out of naive fans. I see him being successful with lies and denies. So why should I talk? Not only that the less talented guy, who was/is obsessed with über doping, "beat" me every year; no he earned the reputation i should have get. Simply b/c i was the better rider on natural skills.
3.) I can not be free until Armstrong is fully uncovered as the biggest cheat story ever. Bigger than Ben Johnson or Marion Jones or Barry Bonds. The next day after his fall, i can give a full confession and can reasonably argue why i had to blood dope to at least gain a little bit back to how real results would have looked like. Well, i was unsuccessful, b/c i couldn´t dope as heavy as Armstrong, otherwise i would have risked death. Something that seems to be indifferent to Armstrong. Normal results should have looked like in 1996/97 when i dropped him by 28 mins in mountain stages and 6 mins in ITT´s.

I don't see any connection to Vietnam, Walter.

 

[The Plediadian]

That is what most of us wonder. Look, the UCI/CAS/WADA are purely arbitrary.
The most eye popping example next to Ullrich is Rasmussen: He got DQed in the TdF without a positive, yet his successor AC got handed the TdF-Victory in 2007, even tough he was on the Fuentes-List. It´s not only double standards applied, no, it´s bizar, a complete farce.

In (at least for his cortico positives) 1999 Armstrong is covered up by the UCI. Basically they handed him the TdF-Victory.

Now: Aldag is still in business, yet he confessed to have doped. No ban at all.
Klöden is connected to blood doping in Freiburg, he´s still racing. Ullrich in retirement is handed a ban.



Man, until Festina it was fairer. All the dopers got handled the same way: no bans. It was fairer back then. That´s the amazing thing about this mess called UCI.

My reason to boycott everything connected to this totally corrupt organization.

24 visits to Dr. Fuentes, payments to Doctor Fuentes, T Mobile affiliations, blood bags at the Doctors and estrogen masking agents.
No matter what, Jan is guilty, not just a little bit.
As far as nailing Armstrong to the cross, why would Jan want to do that?
Jan has always come across as a mature human being, not angry and bitter, like some who have seen cheats and been one themselves.
Remember, Jan never raced after his Fuentes ban. He was being very smart and respectful of the sport at that juncture of his career. He knew he was caught, and it would have brought shame upon him, his family and the sport of cycling to fight a ban and continue racing like Contador.

 

[Cloxxki]

24 visits to Dr. Fuentes, payments to Doctor Fuentes, T Mobile affiliations, blood bags at the Doctors and estrogen masking agents.
No matter what, Jan is guilty, not just a little bit.
As far as nailing Armstrong to the cross, why would Jan want to do that?
Jan has always come across as a mature human being, not angry and bitter, like some who have seen cheats and been one themselves.
Remember, Jan never raced after his Fuentes ban. He was being very smart and respectful of the sport at that juncture of his career. He knew he was caught, and it would have brought shame upon him, his family and the sport of cycling to fight a ban and continue racing like Contador.

In Jan's position, I'd be making F. Schleck my FloydKillsLance. Surely such a high profile account knows stuff. He'd do more good than bad to share. Yes, at the cost of himself. It's what heroes do.
Not sure what makes Jan a better man than Indurain right now. I like more yes, but why...?

 

[sniper]

24 visits to Dr. Fuentes, payments to Doctor Fuentes, T Mobile affiliations, blood bags at the Doctors and estrogen masking agents.
No matter what, Jan is guilty, not just a little bit.
As far as nailing Armstrong to the cross, why would Jan want to do that?
Jan has always come across as a mature human being, not angry and bitter, like some who have seen cheats and been one themselves.
Remember, Jan never raced after his Fuentes ban. He was being very smart and respectful of the sport at that juncture of his career. He knew he was caught, and it would have brought shame upon him, his family and the sport of cycling to fight a ban and continue racing like Contador.

True. Though I propose a rephrasing of the underscored part: "who has not had many reasons to be angry or bitter towards other cyclists, since he hadn't been screwed over tremendously by either Lance or the UCI or both, unlike several others, whose bitterness and anger is therefore merely understandable".

 

[The Plediadian]

In Jan's position, I'd be making F. Schleck my FloydKillsLance. Surely such a high profile account knows stuff. He'd do more good than bad to share. Yes, at the cost of himself. It's what heroes do.
Not sure what makes Jan a better man than Indurain right now. I like more yes, but why...?

Unfortunately for Jan, during the new marketing phase of cycling, which LeMond, Pantani, Ullrich, Lance, Frankie,(please see adds in old British cycling mags of USPS cycling team, selling CARNAC shoes) everyone of them, bar LeMond has been busted for or implicated in sporting fraud.

Frank Schleck is a marketed rider, thusly a protected rider.
Sometimes riders lose favor, sometimes riders get a pass.

For Jan to pull a Floyd would make me lose respect for Jan.
What individuals who have cheated need to realize is, they chose to cheat.
If another gets a pass, oh well, that is how the dice came up.

 

[Bavarianrider]

If Jan is as good a guy as we think he is, should be be all zen now to be done with this? No, there is a huge amount of un-fairplay that has not been properly documented nor acknowledged.
There have been some before him who told more. I prefer Landis over Ullrich at this point, even if his positive leaves some questions unanswered, within or outside his ability to explain at this stage. He cut loose, and didn't seem to hide much worth rediculing or hating him over.

Jan as a lover of the sport could do the sport a favor with an good (over)dose of truth. With a good publisher, he could share the whol truth, on his terms, putting it in the context he chooses. If he doped to be the best doper out there (which I doubt), even that's better than letting us guessing, or wait for insider to leak bit and pieces over the years.
Let Jan tell all. His feeling and thoughts as he was chasing LA much like the tortous did the hare. How it affected him mid-race, at the finish, and off-season. If he has a rich inner world, it will not only be awesome reading/viewing (by all means Jan, make your own movie, don't hold back), but also offer both the lovers, hater, crusaders and ignorant, something to learn from.
If he's such a good guy (I want to believe), let him do the right thing now, not on this deathbed such as Fignon. He really should talk to Landis, they might get along.

He can't say the whole truth. If he does, he will get civil cases from all sides, and would eventually lose millions

 

[webvan]

Yep, unlike Landis he still has a lot to lose.

As for not shaming the sport after being busted in 2006...well let's say no one wanted to hire him so that helped him with this choice.

 

[timmers]

He can't say the whole truth. If he does, he will get civil cases from all sides, and would eventually lose millions

In my country truth is a valid defence. Is this not the case in Germany/Switzerland (I am not sure where Ullrich resides these days)?

Why not come clean and admit what you know and why you cheated? I think he could regain some of the respect that he had prior to 2006.