Jan Ullrich

[Cobblestoned]

It all spins around in circles about how talented anybody ever was due to PED's skewing the landscape. Saying rider X was more talented than rider Y or whatever is a stupid argument when there is no way of knowing because the baseline is not clean and we do not know what anybody was on at one time.

Who cares about PEDs ? It's all about style. Ulle was Mr.Style - der Kaiser.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Who cares about PEDs ? It's all about style. Ulle was Mr.Style - der Kaiser.

When I think of style I think of guys like Yates, Frank VandenBroucke, Wiggins even. Sorry.

Jan drank his beer with style though

 

[kingjr]

It all spins around in circles about how talented anybody ever was due to PED's skewing the landscape. Saying rider X was more talented than rider Y or whatever is a stupid argument when there is no way of knowing because the baseline is not clean and we do not know what anybody was on at one time.

Agreed.

10ch

 

[Cobblestoned]

When I think of style I think of guys like Yates, Frank VandenBroucke, Wiggins even. Sorry.

Jan drank his beer with style though

Hard to discuss taste.
But I think with your opinion...you're very much alone....alone on the waterkant.
There isn't much on the roads that is more beautiful and stylish than Ulle on a bike, especially on a TT bike. Ask TH.

Wiggins looks like a robot basketball-player riding a bobbycar.
But VDB, for sure. And Valv-piti.

 

[blackcat]

When I think of style I think of guys like Yates, Frank VandenBroucke, Wiggins even. Sorry.

Jan drank his beer with style though

Bradley Wiggins? Or his father?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Bradley Wiggins? Or his father?

He pushed the buggy with style I heard.

Boy Wiggins has a very good style. Sorry. Edit, on the TT bike that is of course.

Ullrich wasnt bad either, but I have seen much better. Lots of French.

 

[mewmewmew13]

my humble opinion but Wiggins rode like a scarecrow

Ulle poetry in motion on a bike
style he had plenty both on and off the bike.

and ChrissE.." I seem to remember LA not taking EPO until 95 or so."..if you selectively 'seem to remember' his choice of drugs and timeline this really doesn't explain that most seem to think he probably doped his palmares in his teens as well..

Ulle growing up as a talented teen/junior in East Germany is pretty well documented.

 

[ChrisE]

If you don't think JU was doped as a junior in East Germany, of all places, then that is your prerogative.

 

[roundabout]

I remember Jan saying that it really didn't bother him all that much to get second...
he had a much easier disposition and outlook than wonderboy.

Not sure Ulle was really demoralized. He did fine and was happy.
pretty sure it was shown that he had extreme amounts of talent unlike Armstrong and his jet fueled carcass

He should try being less attached to his medal first

 

[del1962]

Both LA and JU where pretty much amongst the most hard-core dopers, I don't understand this need to say either where anything but cheats

 

[coinneach]

Both LA and JU where pretty much amongst the most hard-core dopers, I don't understand this need to say either where anything but cheats

Talented, cheats, dopers, entertainers...you rate them.....

I think Lance was a greater cheat & doper, but I find the talent bit harder to evaluate.

I am pretty sure Ullrich & Pantaini were on serious stuff before Lance.

Pantani was the greatest entertainer.

Lance & Pantani made the most of their talents & opportunities; can't say the same for Ullrich

My 10cents

 

[Parker]

Lance & Pantani made the most of their talents & opportunities; can't say the same for Ullrich

I reckon Ullrich's in the best situation right now though. I'm not sure how killing yourself with cocaine at the age of 34 is making the most of your opportunities. There's more to life than races.

 

[thehog]

I reckon Ullrich's in the best situation right now though. I'm not sure how killing yourself with cocaine at the age of 34 is making the most of your opportunities. There's more to life than races.

I would disagree.

Ullrich and for some part Pantani were passengers. Corrupted by team managers and team staff.

Whereas Lance was the thug with Bruyneel, bullying and pressuring riders to dope.

Pantani and Ullrich were the ones bullied.

 

[Parker]

I would disagree.

Ullrich and for some part Pantani were passengers. Corrupted by team managers and team staff.

Whereas Lance was the thug with Bruyneel, bullying and pressuring riders to dope.

Pantani and Ullrich were the ones bullied.

You're not actually disagreeing with anything I said.

 

[thehog]

You're not actually disagreeing with anything I said.

But are you agreeing with me?

 

[Parker]

But are you agreeing with me?

Partially.

 

[thehog]

Partially.

Likewise.






..

 

[MarkvW]

I would disagree.

Ullrich and for some part Pantani were passengers. Corrupted by team managers and team staff.

Whereas Lance was the thug with Bruyneel, bullying and pressuring riders to dope.

Pantani and Ullrich were the ones bullied.

Marco Pantani as a victim of a bully? If Elefanto was alive today, he'd surely deny that!

 

[thehog]

Marco Pantani as a victim of a bully? If Elefanto was alive today, he'd surely deny that!

Nah. He was ***** whipped. Mamma whipped.

Coke whipped.

Bullied by Y chromosomes all over the place.

The white lady especially.

Just wanted to ride into the colli's. Mamma was always worried about him.

 

[42x16ss]

Nah. He was ***** whipped. Mamma whipped.

Coke whipped.

Bullied by Y chromosomes all over the place.

The white lady especially.

Just wanted to ride into the colli's. Mamma was always worried about him.

Yep, Pantani's self confidence was never strong to start with. Add pushy Team Directors, a needy, cheating girlfriend, random hangers-on and a suspension for doing the same as 90% of the peloton at the time and it's amazing that he lasted so long

 

[mewmewmew13]

If you don't think JU was doped as a junior in East Germany, of all places, then that is your prerogative.

I do think he was doped then also...
didn't imply he wasnt' ..but you said "check his palmares" like he wasn't good as a junior
If you think Lance had great talent as a cyclist and wasn't doped then that is your prerogative

 

[42x16ss]

Marco Pantani as a victim of a bully? If Elefanto was alive today, he'd surely deny that!

Only because he was too proud.

 

[ChrisE]

I do think he was doped then also...
didn't imply he wasnt' ..but you said "check his palmares" like he wasn't good as a juniorIf you think Lance had great talent as a cyclist and wasn't doped then that is your prerogative

No, that is not what I wrote.

I said check LA's palmares before 1995, which is when it is documented he started EPO. That was my response to you saying LA had no talent while praising JU, again bringing LA into a discussion off topic. I also did not say (nor do I think) LA wasn't doped when younger.

So stop lying about what I wrote, and screwing up the thread with your off topic LA hate snarks.

I have not made a comment about JU's talent. My comment on topic is that it is impossible to tell who was most talented when everybody was doped.

 

[mewmewmew13]

No, that is not what I wrote.

I said check LA's palmares before 1995, which is when it is documented he started EPO. That was my response to you saying LA had no talent while praising JU, again bringing LA into a discussion off topic. I also did not say (nor do I think) LA wasn't doped when younger.

So stop lying about what I wrote, and screwing up the thread with your off topic LA hate snarks.

I have not made a comment about JU's talent. My comment on topic is that it is impossible to tell who was most talented when everybody was doped.

Don't you dare accuse me of 'lying' just to start trouble sonny..

You're the one who had to jump all over my post in a fit of indignation that someone used your hero as a reference. I didn't direct my original post at you.

It's not my fault some of your posts are confusing...but it's a huge agressive step to accuse someone of purposely 'lying' and 'screwing up the thread' if they responded in confusion---so back off.

 

[ferryman]

As far as I can see nobody is 'lying' here. Knock that on head and don't get into a tit for tat guys.