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Jan Ullrich

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fmk_RoI

fmk_RoI

Sep 16, 2010
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Question: what's known about Jan Ullrich's doping programme?

We have the Freiburg report, which says the team was on EPO from about the same time as Motorola, and then switched to blood bags in the noughties. Throughout this time they had available to them the full range of other products.

How did he end up having to shop at the Lidl of doping that was Fuentes? Was it the prices - just €35k a year - or was it the variety of products available in the centre aisle? Was it Cecchini sent him there?

What is known of his time as a junior, within the GDR doping regime?

As some like to do the whole how-crap-would-Armstrong-have-been-without-the-doping thing, what can we say of Ullrich? That he would have been pretty bad, given his attitude to training?
 
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Merckx index

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Race Radio, long since gone from this forum, used to claim that Ullrich was a super-responder, due to having a very high density of blood vessels in his legs, or something like that. He never provided any evidence for that, though, other than some claims by some doping doctors, and stories about how in training rides, when he was presumably not doping, Ullrich appeared to be a very ordinary rider.
 
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red_flanders

red_flanders

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RedheadDane said:
cyclingtips.com

Ullrich fined for assault of escort in Germany - CyclingTips

Berlin, Aug 28, 2019 (AFP) — Jan Ullrich, winner of the 1997 Tour de France, has been fined for attacking an escort in a Frankfurt hotel room in August of 2018. In a statement, the state prosecutor in Frankfurt said without naming the accused that a former German professional cyclist had been...
cyclingtips.com cyclingtips.com
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Wow. That's some serious business. Brings up memories of several former cyclists spiraling in a morass of drugs and depression. I hope he can pull out of it, always seemed like a pretty decent guy, but wow. Shocking to read.
 
Aragon

Aragon

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The following quote is from an "instant-message" dialogue between JV and Frankie Andreu from 2005:
"hell, Kevin [Livingston] was telling me that after 2000 Ullrich never raced over 42%"
Livingston was Ullrich's Telekom teammate only for a brief time period, but JV doesn't appear to question the information in the private conversation that came to light only during the SCA hearings.
 
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roundabout

roundabout

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And Moreau finished 4th on nothing and 39% Hct.

Ullrich was doing what his rivals were doing in 1998 and 2005-2006. There is no reason for me to think that it was any different between those 2 periods.

And edit: Ullrich was likely working with Fuentes since the end of 2003
 
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Aragon

Aragon

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When Ullrich was asked to return his 2000 olympic medals, he refused and emphasized that he got no benefit from his PED use but was only doing what the others did.

Still whereas there is more or less solid information about his PED use in the 1990s from Telekom/Freiburg-report and from D'Hondt and rHuEPO retests etc., very little is known about the years 2000-2003 in which Vaughters (roughly) refers to. My reading is that JV believed the information to be true, accurate or not.

I don't know what to make of the story, because he has since also maintained that nobody of the CA riders doped when the team won the a TT at the 2001 TDF.
 
fmk_RoI

fmk_RoI

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Aragon said:
I don't know what to make of the story, because he has since also maintained that nobody of the CA riders doped when the team won the a TT at the 2001 TDF.
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He repeats that claim in the new book, but my reading of it there it was said more in hope than conviction. I mean, if others in the team weren't aware he had gone back on the hot sauce at CA, then how could he expect to know what each of them was really doing? (Plus: it'd be a bit of a miracle given elsewhere in the book he hardly allows any room for clean riders with the exception of the blessèd Bassons.)

I rate the story about the same value as much of the peloton scuttlebut repeated by Hamilton: interesting, but needs corroboration.
 
fmk_RoI

fmk_RoI

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Merckx index said:
Race Radio, long since gone from this forum, used to claim that Ullrich was a super-responder, due to having a very high density of blood vessels in his legs, or something like that. He never provided any evidence for that, though, other than some claims by some doping doctors, and stories about how in training rides, when he was presumably not doping, Ullrich appeared to be a very ordinary rider.
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As I've said before, I view the super-responder thing as similar to the Higgs constant in string theory: it's a neat explanation without proof.

The high density of blood vessels - it's not that different from saying another rider had more slow-twitch muscles.

Ullrich appearing to be a very ordinary rider in training: my feeling with Ullrich (and it's just a feeling, not fully founded on evidence) is that he needed motivation, he wasn't out there proving himself against everyone all the time. To me, there's a difference between riders like Ullrich and riders like, say, Rasmussen: the latter was massively motivated, driven to succeed, whereas Ullrich, you kind of get the feeling that once he'd proved himself and won the Tour, the desire wasn't there.
 
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geisterhome

geisterhome

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Tricycle Rider said:
Not OK.

Ullrich is well known around these places, but hopefully he's still doing somewhat well.

I don't think any rider here wishes him unwell?
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There hasn't been any news on him for over a year. He went into rehab and vanished after that. He moved back to germany somewhere close to his children they say. and is supposed to have regular contact with them. He is staying low profile. If he was still doing drugs and acting out I guess we would know. So I assume he is doing much better. Hope he isn't drinking though.
 
the delgados

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Extinction

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Anyone who thinks one can be a winner at the pro cycling level on pane e acqua is delusional. That's not how it works, especially in the blood vector enhancement era. And this is the case with all endurance sports. It's a combination of talent, while at the pro level everyone is more or less genetically gifted, and a good doping program. Unfortunately, those with the highest salaries often have access to the top doping regimens, but they get the big money, because their ability is deemed to justify it. One can only hope, perhaps in vein, that their doping doesn't provide an exaggerated advantage. However, even the super talented know that if they ride clean, they will get beaten by less talented doped riders, so they engage in the culture. It's a vicious cycle that is nearly impossible to break. I think Jan, while not a victim, has rationalized his doping, given the system, in a totally understandable manner. Everybody that rode against the guy said he was a genetic freak. The doping was the necessary evil to have a career worthy of his physical talent. Hopefully he can now find peace in life post-cycling.
 
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Extinction said:
Anyone who thinks one can be a winner at the pro cycling level on pane e acqua is delusional. That's not how it works, especially in the blood vector enhancement era. And this is the case with all endurance sports. It's a combination of talent, while at the pro level everyone is more or less genetically gifted, and a good doping program. Unfortunately, those with the highest salaries often have access to the top doping regimens, but they get the big money, because their ability is deemed to justify it. One can only hope, perhaps in vein, that their doping doesn't provide an exaggerted advantage. However, even the super talented know that if they ride clean, they will get beaten by less talented doped riders, so they engage in the culture. It's a vicious cycle that is nearly impossible to break. I think Jan, while not a victim, has rationalized his doping, given the system, in a totally understandable manner. Everybody that road against the giù said he was a genetic freak. The doping was the necessary evil to have a career worthy of his physical talent. Hopefully he can now find peace in life post-cycling.
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“One can only hope, perhaps in vein, that their doping doesn't provide an exaggerted advantage”
Click to expand...

Very clever (and perhaps unintended?) play on words there ;)
 
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Rob5091

Rob5091

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Hajo Seppelt comments on Ullrich -
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...vestigative-journalist-reacts-to-long-awaited
"But I very much doubt that the mentality in sport has changed. Rather, it is the fear of discovery, of social ostracism, of ruining one's life - especially in Germany, where such things are particularly closely pursued," concludes Seppelt. "Doping only becomes damaging to business if it becomes public. Otherwise, everyone benefits because performance improves. The collateral damage such as health risks and, in individual cases, death are suppressed or even accepted."
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