Jan Ullrich

[Cobblestoned]

So, Brajko will virtually win the TdS 2006.
Ok, I could live with him.


btw, those wiki-****ers are really impressive.
Like at Contador, results are already changed right now, just few hours after, when the dead bodys of results aren't even cold.
I think some people feel better now and get praised for their accuracy.

TdS 2006
Final General classification
1 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 38.21.36
2 Koldo Gil Perez (Spa) Saunier Duval-Prodir 0.24
3 Jorg Jaksche (Ger) Würth 1.03
4 Angel Vicioso Arcos (Spa) Würth 1.44
5 Janez Brajkovic (Slo) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 2.33
6 Frank Schleck (Lux) Team CSC 2.56
7 Linus Gerdemann (Ger) T-Mobile Team 3.31
8 Giampaolo Caruso (Ita) Würth 4.20
9 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears 4.27
10 Cadel Evans (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto 5.01

 

[MrRoboto]

Not just the top 10, check out the top 20:

1. Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 86h 15' 02"
2. Ivan Basso (ITA) Team CSC +4' 40"
3. Jan Ullrich (GER) T-Mobile +6' 21"
4. Francisco Mancebo (ESP) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne +9' 59"
5. Alexandre Vinokourov (KAZ) T-Mobile +11' 01"
6. Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner +11' 21"
7. Michael Rasmussen (DEN) Rabobank +11' 33"
8. Cadel Evans (AUS) Davitamon-Lotto +11' 55"
9. Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak +12' 44"
10. Oscar Pereiro (ESP) Phonak +16' 04"
11. Christophe Moreau (FRA) Credit Agricole +16' 26"
12. Yaroslav Popovych (UKR) Discovery Channel +19' 02"
13. Eddy Mazzoleni (ITA) Lampre +21' 06"
14. George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel +23' 40"
15. Haimar Zubeldia (ESP) Euskaltel +23' 43"
16. Jörg Jaksche (GER) Liberty Seguros +24' 07"
17. Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC +24' 08"
18. Oscar Sevilla (ESP) T-Mobile +27' 45"
19. Andrey Kashechkin (KAZ) Credit Agricole +28' 04"
20. Giuseppe Guerini (ITA) T-Mobile +33' 02"

So we have about 4 without any direct evidence of doping. Cadel, Julich, Zubeldia and Guerini. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Top 30 doesn't look too good either.

 

[Nick C.]

So we have about 4 without any direct evidence of doping. Cadel, Julich, Zubeldia and Guerini. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Top 30 doesn't look too good either.

I would have added Popo and Hincapie to your list if you don't go for guilt by association and connecting the dots.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Now, looking over to German media.
It won't be nice...
They will celebrate, and especially our usual suspects will again show, how deep mankind can sink. Declare it as personal win and achievement.
Now I go and will perhaps come back as a changed man.

Come on, cobblestoned, just do it. Uh, that was Prof.Franke on TV in the back.
Now I am feared again..

 

[luckyboy]

Der Jan was retired for years but the UCI insisted on a pound of flesh. Armstrong was racing and the UCI regarded doping allegations as being 'in the past, we must look forward.'

Yeah this is ridiculous.

Makes me so angry. The UCI are so ****ty

 

[BullsFan22]

Obviously Jan doped, pretty much like everyone else did, but I feel sorry for him because he is a genuinely nice guy. He didn't try and probably won't try to bring anyone down with him. Yes he kept denying and denying, but denying is pretty much the norm these days in pro sports when one tests positive. I am afraid Pharmstrong will be the only top rider of this era (post Indurain) that doesn't get penalized or his results wont be altered or erased. The guy has too much money, power and influence in the world of cycling (not just pro cycling) to be damaged significantly.

 

[GJB123]

I would have added Popo and Hincapie to your list if you don't go for guilt by association and connecting the dots.

You must be joking? Hincapie has been more than linked and seems to have spilt the beans on himself and the boss in the GJ-hearings. As for Popo, the Italian police don't come and take away your PC just for fun. They did that because he has been implicated in the Amtrong/Ferrari PED rackett. And then there is Cadel "I worked with Dr. Ferrari but have never doped" Evans. You can take that one of your list of non-dopers unless you are an Aussie in which case I am not even going to discuss it with you.

Regards
GJ

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

WTFahugawagads! Giving Ulle 2 year ban? Now?
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/jan-ullrich-given-two-year-ban-from-cas
they just like flexing their muscles
what good does that do?

 

[Carols]

So Mancebo, Vinokourov, Rasmussen and Landis move up a spot in the top-10. Good to finally see justice done to these athletes, who weren't given their rightfull place in the top-10 because of the cheat Jan Ullrich.

Oh the Irony of it

 

[Aguirre]

I don't buy this crap

cycling is going mad and UCI is doing nothing.

I always like to recall Erik Zabel confession of doping with tears while he was still a rider and... he continue to race!!!!

And now a court strip Jan Ulrich of results 2005, 2006!!!!

UCI be ashamed of your name!!!!!!!!

 

[roundabout]

Yeah, they should have said past is past and since everyone was doping then we should let you go.

On a slighly more serious note, why and how did it take until 2012 to ban Ullrich compared to Basso/Scarponi who were banned in 2007?

 

[Escarabajo]

I would have added Popo and Hincapie to your list if you don't go for guilt by association and connecting the dots.

Popo!! Really???

Sorry but I could not resist. He is not even ashamed of doing it while being investigated. Menchov at least is more discrete.

Unless Hincapie wants to sue Landis for defamation, he was incriminated by him.

 

[VO2 Max]

Firstly, really glad that Jan avoids a life-time ban and can go back to working in cycling as he chooses after August 2013. That's the no.1 thing I think for Ullrich fans. Of course we know he doped, and honestly today I was just hoping he didn't get off on some technicality because now of course he can talk about the time from start of 2005 onwards without any further punishment. That's great.

But cycling needs some kind of 'truth & reconciliation' process now. The results and the records are important to any sport - and now, especially after the events of the last 6 days, the whole records of the Tour de France and many other events from at least 1996 onwards are effectively meaningless. Someone important needs to be honest and say, "We're throwing all those results in the bin. The video's are still there, you can watch the races and some of them were great races. Everyone can keep their money. But the results are utterly and permanently corrupted. Let's start again."

 

[Abstainer]

Popo!! Really???

Sorry but I could not resist. He is not even ashamed of doing it while being investigated. Menchov at least is more discrete.

Unless Hincapie wants to sue Landis for defamation, he was incriminated by him.

I think the point that NickC is making is that of the twenty listed, only about six (including Hincapie, Evans, Zubeldia) have NOT been caught officially. He is not saying that there is no ground for suspicion about Hincapie et al.

 

[Nick C.]

Popo!! Really???

Sorry but I could not resist. He is not even ashamed of doing it while being investigated. Menchov at least is more discrete.

Unless Hincapie wants to sue Landis for defamation, he was incriminated by him.

I think everyone else was either on the OP list, failed a test. He said DIRECT. last I checked Popo had his house raided but unless there is some secret news that I missed.

 

[Benotti69]

So we have about 4 without any direct evidence of doping. Cadel, Julich, Zubeldia and Guerini. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Top 30 doesn't look too good either.

Cadel and Julich rode for doping teams. their results speak for themselves.

Guerini had the nickname 'Turbo' during the era. Rode for T-Mobile.

Zubeldia another Bruyneel boy.

 

[hrotha]

Cadel and Julich rode for doping teams. their results speak for themselves.

Guerini had the nickname 'Turbo' during the era. Rode for T-Mobile.

Zubeldia another Bruyneel boy.

Guerini already had that nickname the first time I heard about him during the 1995 Giro. Not saying it wasn't because of the dope, but it's hardly evidence of doping.

Still, he rode for Polti. Remember Stanga asking Jaksche about his hematocrit?

 

[The Hitch]

Yes, I think it would be a good time for a confession. I think we know the outline :
- Yes we did what everyone was doing in 1996, 1997 and 1998, why/how couldn't we?
- We stopped EPO after Festina
- We couldn't believe our eyes when Armstrong won in 1999 then repeatedly trounced us in 2000 and 2001
- We thought things had changed in 2003
- When we saw what happened in 2004 we decided to stop being made fools of
- We went to Fuentes and got caught.

Ullrich can't confess to doping in 2000 or he loses the Olympic gold.

 

[Abstainer]

As a matter of interest, when do Ullrich fans believe he started working with Fuentes?

In retrospect, he was clearly transfusing in 2003

 

[Benotti69]

As a matter of interest, when do Ullrich fans believe he started working with Fuentes?

In retrospect, he was clearly transfusing in 2003

After Armstrong hired Ferarri on an exclusive basis.

 

[The Hitch]

You must be joking? Hincapie has been more than linked and seems to have spilt the beans on himself and the boss in the GJ-hearings. As for Popo, the Italian police don't come and take away your PC just for fun. They did that because he has been implicated in the Amtrong/Ferrari PED rackett. And then there is Cadel "I worked with Dr. Ferrari but have never doped" Evans. You can take that one of your list of non-dopers unless you are an Aussie in which case I am not even going to discuss it with you.

Regards
GJ

I agree. Good post.

 

[VO2 Max]

As a matter of interest, when do Ullrich fans believe he started working with Fuentes?

Big fan of Jan since the early 90's but I don't think we've ever seen a clean Jan Ullrich racing. Specifically about Fuentes I don't suppose we'll ever know exactly; 2003 would be a good guess because he'd just left Telekom who may have been using their own separate programme. But equally maybe ever since the epo test came out. Or maybe he switched from a different supplier at the start of 2005, the period which today's judgement refers to.

 

[Cobblestoned]

As a matter of interest, when do Ullrich fans believe he started working with Fuentes?

In retrospect, he was clearly transfusing in 2003

He was working with Cecchini since 2003. That's what he said.
Since those guys are all connected, I would guess that Fuentes did the blood- and drug- part, and others did those "trainingplans" and finetuning.
It was proven by bank-accounts that Ullrich paid Fuentes in 2004 at earliest (which looked more like a bill), and that he visited Madrid several times.

Many think that he was working with those "true" experts all the time, while others think that he stopped beeing served by Freiburg clinic from a certain point on.

 

[SiAp1984]

Now, looking over to German media.
It won't be nice...
They will celebrate, and especially our usual suspects will again show, how deep mankind can sink. Declare it as personal win and achievement.
Now I go and will perhaps come back as a changed man.

Come on, cobblestoned, just do it. Uh, that was Prof.Franke on TV in the back.
Now I am feared again..

First reactions bei Sueddeutsche.de (Sueddeutsche being the newspaper that brought Fuentes and Puerto in the attention of the German public back then), Spiegel.de and FAZ.net are quite moderate.

 

[Cobblestoned]

N-TV announcement with a little smile.

"A dopingsinner, and we are now officially allowed to name him a dopingsinner!"

Congrats, guys !

Already spotted Franke's face. Waiting for Gollum Seppelt's ugly smiling face appearing on TV.