Jan Ullrich

[stainlessguy1]

How high up does it go

Interesting week in the pursuit of justice...

Contador is caught in July 2010 and loses the Tour and all subsequent results but his 2 year ban starts in August 2010 - shouldn't the ban start from the day of the positive test? Maybe I'm just being picky but I'd like to know the reason for the apparent discrepancy.

Ullrich loses all results from May 2005 - June 2006 (not to mention not being unable to start the Tour in July 2006). He is effectively banned for that period. However, he then gets an official ban of two years, starting in August 2011. The evidence presented to CAS must have showed clearly that Ullrich started his doping (for this case) in May 2005, hence annulling his results from that time onwards. Okay, but given he's been retired since 2007, why the additional ban? Why not just ban him for life and give the UCI what they want? Is CAS making an example of him because his lawyers managed to use the rules to delay the case for 4+ years?

And Armstrong - well, the less said about that the better...at least his fans will feel vindicated. Good for them!

BTW: I'd really love it if Ullrich made a full confession. Hearing the truth from a pro cyclist would be a refreshing change.

Well reading all the new posts from what has just happened in cycling in general , leads me to think , there is a grave inconsistancy to all the punishments that have been dished out .
There is a thought that keeps comming back to mind, the silence through all of this might have to do with other people being implicated that are more powerful than Ulle, and the monetary losses from revenues that could fall apart when that house of cards comes tumbling down . So possible, the extra suspension to keep Ulle from riding is extra punishment for him as all the test authorities and media and sports organizations and what not ( wada and uci etc) , that need to tie it all together cant do so . Ulle wont give them what they want to hear.
The idea might be a far fetched one , but maybe not. There is more to this story than we are led to believe. I think if the USDA goes after pharmastrong and finds nothing just like he was cleared of any fraud so far then Ulle can speak , but it will be pointless .
AS long as the foundation funds keep rolling in funds and people keep donating all is good.
Its probably best if everyone just lets sleeping dogs lay.

 

[Trev_S]

Has the UCI commented on Ullrich? Their silence is deafening.

I find this rather ironic.

from here in relation to Armstrongs case being dropped.

“We took notice of the announcement in relation to the conclusion of the investigation. We are obviously very happy to learn it, bearing in mind how much cycling has suffered over the last two years, especially in terms of image and credibility," UCI President Pat McQuaid said.

"I think our sport didn’t deserve it – just like in many other similar situations – and today I can only say that the past is finally behind us.
We just want now keep looking forward to the bright future of cycling!”

and here we are with the UCI having taken Ullrich to CAS.

The CAS partially upheld the UCI's appeal of the Swiss Olympic decision to dismiss its doping investigation into Ullrich after his retirement, and ruled that he was guilty of a doping offence.

from an article published a couple of hours ago.

The UCI, which described Contador's sanction as a "sad day" for cycling, declined to comment on Ullrich's case before studying the ruling of the CAS panel.

hmmm.............
It will be interesting to hear what the UCI have to say.
On one had saying the past is the past and looking to the future all whilst sitting in a court room dealing with the past.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Truly a strange day. A strange day to add to a very strange last 7 days. Who would have said that this time last week we would be looking at Contador & Ullrich banned, but Armstrong getting away with it? Not me, that's for damn sure.

The Ullrich case really is the icing on a pretty tasteless cake. To think that possibly the most naturally talented cyclist of this or any generation goes down because his only choice was to compete in the arms-race, that stirs my soup big-time. And to add to that, the bloke who was no doubt contributing to Ullrich's bad choices walks away free. Rich and free. Smug, rich and free.

It's been an awful week for all of us who've loved cycling within the last 20 years. Jan Ullrich could have been the greatest GT rider of all time, but the game changed around him and he was never cynical enough to fully exploit the horrible new world in which he found himself.

The guy will always have my respect. He feels shame for what he did and now competes in Grand Fondo races for fun rather than paying $1m to get a pro slot at Kona. Anyone with half a clue about cycling knows that the career of Jan Ullrich was a career of gloriously unfulfilled potential, not because it was his fault, but because he was working in a world where right and wrong no longer mattered.

The UCI slowed itself today. I'm ashamed, TRULY ashamed that Pat McQuaid is an Irishman. He doesn't repsesent me or my countrymen.

My only hope is that Jan spills the beans now. There's some soup which needs some spit in.

1+ Agree with everything, but the last two sentences. Why should he talk? To give victory to the hypocrites?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

He is not going to talk. I like that.

Because honestly we all know: Talking don´t help you (see Landis, Hamilton, Jaksche, etc., etc.). Not the way the UCI works. There is no advantage to talk, it would only please the hypocrites.

http://www.welt.de/sport/article13860454/Jan-Ullrich-gibt-Kontakt-zu-Dopingarzt-Fuentes-zu.html

 

[The Plediadian]

Truly a strange day. A strange day to add to a very strange last 7 days. Who would have said that this time last week we would be looking at Contador & Ullrich banned, but Armstrong getting away with it? Not me, that's for damn sure.

The Ullrich case really is the icing on a pretty tasteless cake. To think that possibly the most naturally talented cyclist of this or any generation goes down because his only choice was to compete in the arms-race, that stirs my soup big-time. And to add to that, the bloke who was no doubt contributing to Ullrich's bad choices walks away free. Rich and free. Smug, rich and free.

It's been an awful week for all of us who've loved cycling within the last 20 years. Jan Ullrich could have been the greatest GT rider of all time, but the game changed around him and he was never cynical enough to fully exploit the horrible new world in which he found himself.

The guy will always have my respect. He feels shame for what he did and now competes in Grand Fondo races for fun rather than paying $1m to get a pro slot at Kona. Anyone with half a clue about cycling knows that the career of Jan Ullrich was a career of gloriously unfulfilled potential, not because it was his fault, but because he was working in a world where right and wrong no longer mattered.

The UCI slowed itself today. I'm ashamed, TRULY ashamed that Pat McQuaid is an Irishman. He doesn't repsesent me or my countrymen.

My only hope is that Jan spills the beans now. There's some soup which needs some spit in.

Great results by Ullrich, definitely the most natural talented GT rider, 1997-2005.
Jan failed in his head, not in his heart or talent. Getting a positive for Ecstasy was just ridiculous.He rode with the non team mate Vinoqurov and was coached by the Tmobile doping coaches, who never gave Ullrich proper support, even though having truly doped domestiques.
To top it off it took a little extra for Ullrich to oust Lance, he was stupidly caught in a massive doping ring, and he could never whet out the punishment to crush Armstrong.
A truly pathetic waste of talent Jan was. On top of that the German journalists dissect his life and spit Jan out like flotsam and jetsam.

 

[Wallace]

Great results by Ullrich, definitely the most natural talented GT rider, 1997-2005.
Jan failed in his head, not in his heart or talent. Getting a positive for Ecstasy was just ridiculous.He rode with the non team mate Vinoqurov and was coached by the Tmobile doping coaches, who never gave Ullrich proper support, even though having truly doped domestiques.
To top it off it took a little extra for Ullrich to oust Lance, he was stupidly caught in a massive doping ring, and he could never whet out the punishment to crush Armstrong.
A truly pathetic waste of talent Jan was. On top of that the German journalists dissect his life and spit Jan out like flotsam and jetsam.

I'm sorry, but this is just wrong on a number of levels. Vinokourov was an excellent and selfless domestique for Ullrich in 2001 and 2002. It wasn't until 2005, after having come in 3rd in 2003 when Ullrich was riding for Bianchi, and when Vino was told he could ride for himself, that chaos came to the team leadership at T-Mobile and Vino was made out to be a bad team mate. This just isn't the case.

Also: at Telekom and T-Mobile Ullrich had a number of excellent and loyal team mates. He was generous in that he was willing to have the team also work for Zabel, going against the standard logic that you can't have a team working for both sprints and the overall, but that was actually his call. The idea that Ullrich didn't have adequate team support is just a fiction.

 

[The Plediadian]

I'm sorry, but this is just wrong on a number of levels. Vinokourov was an excellent and selfless domestique for Ullrich in 2001 and 2002. It wasn't until 2005, after having come in 3rd in 2003 when Ullrich was riding for Bianchi, and when Vino was told he could ride for himself, that chaos came to the team leadership at T-Mobile and Vino was made out to be a bad team mate. This just isn't the case.

Also: at Telekom and T-Mobile Ullrich had a number of excellent and loyal team mates. He was generous in that he was willing to have the team also work for Zabel, going against the standard logic that you can't have a team working for both sprints and the overall, but that was actually his call. The idea that Ullrich didn't have adequate team support is just a fiction.

It deems that T-Mobile was a strong a team, Look who he had, Aldag, Kloden, Vino, as strong as Armstrongs' teams,
Ullrich was a stronger rider than Armstrong and Basso.
Ullrich should have crushed skinny little Armstrong, and yet he did not.
No way Lance should beat Jan in an ITT. Makes no sense to me, the big cat Jan was a superior to Armstrong, Jan just cruising along in his Big Ring a rider of incredible power and grace. Maybe Jans' head and coaches held him back.

 

[Wallace]

It deems that T-Mobile was a strong a team, Look who he had, Aldag, Kloden, Vino, as strong as Armstrongs' teams,
Ullrich was a stronger rider than Armstrong and Basso.
Ullrich should have crushed skinny little Armstrong, and yet he did not.
No way Lance should beat Jan in an ITT. Makes no sense to me, the big cat Jan was a superior to Armstrong, Jan just cruising along in his Big Ring a rider of incredible power and grace. Maybe Jans' head and coaches held him back.

The difference between Ullrich and Armstrong is summed up in the name of one very high-powered sports car.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Not sure if this is already posted.

A statement from Jan is up here on his website - I am relying on google traslate, but he admits to making a mistake and visiting Fuentes and that he now has drawn a line in the story.

 

[The Plediadian]

The difference between Ullrich and Armstrong is summed up in the name of one very high-powered sports car.

Oh yeah, Dr. Lancia.

 

[offbyone]

Other than armstrong, this is about the definition of captain obvious. Of course he doped. I am glad ullrich isn't feeding the circus and simply moving on. I am so tired of the media and obsessive fandom feeding the fire of the search for dopers past. I would rather focus on today and the future (u23) than digging up the skeletons of the past.

 

[mewmewmew13]

He is not going to talk. I like that.

Because honestly we all know: Talking don´t help you (see Landis, Hamilton, Jaksche, etc., etc.). Not the way the UCI works. There is no advantage to talk, it would only please the hypocrites.

http://www.welt.de/sport/article13860454/Jan-Ullrich-gibt-Kontakt-zu-Dopingarzt-Fuentes-zu.html

You are right Foxxy. Jan wouldn't talk. Now he is free.

 

[Wallace]

Other than armstrong, this is about the definition of captain obvious. Of course he doped. I am glad ullrich isn't feeding the circus and simply moving on. I am so tired of the media and obsessive fandom feeding the fire of the search for dopers past. I would rather focus on today and the future (u23) than digging up the skeletons of the past.

I would be delighted to agree with you, if only so many of the team managers and doctors of the past dopers weren't managing the teams and serving as doctors of the future and present riders.

 

[Race Radio]

From Jan's Website

STATEMENT BY JAN ULLRICH TO JUDGMENT CAS - FINAL LINE IN THE PAST
Scherzingen (Switzerland) - The Court of Arbitration has now blocked me for two years. This award brings disciplinary proceedings to an end, which has lasted almost three years. This sport legal tug of war was unsatisfactory for all concerned for myself as for the public. It is incomprehensible to me why we all had to wait so long for this judgment.

I accept the award and will not challenge him. Not because I agree with all points in the court's opinion, but because I want to finish the issue definitively. Personal consequences, I've pulled back in 2007 with the retirement from professional cycling. I confirm that I had contact with Fuentes. I know that that was a big mistake that I regret very much. For this behavior, I would like to sincerely apologize to everyone - I'm very sorry. Looking back, I would act in certain situations during my career differently.

I wanted to get out of the Tour 2006 everything again. After my tour victory in 1997 and five second places in the public, sponsors and also my own pressure was immense. Everyone wanted a second tour victory, especially after the retirement of Lance Armstrong.

Shortly before the 2006 tour, it then makes a big impact: Suspension, headlines, ostracism, house searches, criminal complaints. I felt abandoned, fallen like a sieve. The whole world wanted to put me against the wall and then I went instinctively to cover, have retired for now. As I said, I will not complain that not everything was good reason. I was even then, shortly after my suspension, the mistake I made, to admit publicly, but my hands were tied. On the advice of my lawyers, and as is usual in such cases, I have been silent on the allegations. Ultimately, this issue has me for years so polluted that I was sick and I eventually broke down.

I am glad that finally a decision was made. For me it is the capital of my active career in cycling finalized and it is very personal for me and my family for years to come the end of a difficult time. Today's award is for me and my future plans to change anything. I never thought in any capacity to return to active professional cycling. This statement is from my side all is said on this subject and I would like to make any further statements, statements or interviews in public. I hope for your understanding. I hereby draw a line.

I owe a lot to cycling and will continue to further express my joy and passion for the sport to others. In the future I will therefore also in various functions and departments in everyman cycling to be active. I look back on my cycling career and accomplishments with pride and look forward to my new career.

Jan Ullrich

 

[Neworld]

Big fan of Jan since the early 90's but I don't think we've ever seen a clean Jan Ullrich racing. Specifically about Fuentes I don't suppose we'll ever know exactly; 2003 would be a good guess because he'd just left Telekom who may have been using their own separate programme. But equally maybe ever since the epo test came out. Or maybe he switched from a different supplier at the start of 2005, the period which today's judgement refers to.

With an avatar like "VO2Max" and being a lifelong fan you may have an answer for me. What is/was Jan's VO2Max? Are you privy to any of his biometric data?

Cheers.

NW

 

[Neworld]

Truly a strange day. A strange day to add to a very strange last 7 days. Who would have said that this time last week we would be looking at Contador & Ullrich banned, but Armstrong getting away with it? Not me, that's for damn sure.

The Ullrich case really is the icing on a pretty tasteless cake. To think that possibly the most naturally talented cyclist of this or any generation goes down because his only choice was to compete in the arms-race, that stirs my soup big-time. And to add to that, the bloke who was no doubt contributing to Ullrich's bad choices walks away free. Rich and free. Smug, rich and free.

It's been an awful week for all of us who've loved cycling within the last 20 years. Jan Ullrich could have been the greatest GT rider of all time, but the game changed around him and he was never cynical enough to fully exploit the horrible new world in which he found himself.

The guy will always have my respect. He feels shame for what he did and now competes in Grand Fondo races for fun rather than paying $1m to get a pro slot at Kona. Anyone with half a clue about cycling knows that the career of Jan Ullrich was a career of gloriously unfulfilled potential, not because it was his fault, but because he was working in a world where right and wrong no longer mattered.

The UCI slowed itself today. I'm ashamed, TRULY ashamed that Pat McQuaid is an Irishman. He doesn't repsesent me or my countrymen.

My only hope is that Jan spills the beans now. There's some soup which needs some spit in.

Excellent post on many counts. I too hope that Ulle Spits straight into McQuaid's winking eye. What has Ulle have to lose now, nothing. If he implicates in any way his 2000 Olympic medals it will take the bletherers at UCillyI and CAS another 6 yrs to figure it out. Full *** manouvering.

NW

 

[Neworld]

The idea that Ullrich didn't have adequate team support is just a fiction.

I don't want to split hairs with you but the TdF is about percentages, small ones, over hours and hours of racing. Having 5 teammates leading you up the 3rd HC on one stage while your nearest rivals (Jan) had maybe one, can certainly be an undeniable advantage.

Jan had adequate support yet, but he didn't have all encompassing, totally devoted support made up of 6-7 riders that all could be captains of any other team. He didn't have a team built to win the early TTTs to put 2 minutes into his chief rival, and ergo on the defensive. That was never there.

I cannot recall the stage in the 1998 TdF, but I recall Jan being completely isolated at the base of a climb after puncturing and most of his team was ahead of him. Pantani attacked him as soon as he rejoined the group after an unbelievable ascent of that climb.

Jan had far more obstacles than most team leaders and the bunk about 'it was all in his head' is mostly propaganda.

NW

 

[thehog]

From Jan's Website

Thanks for posting and well said by Jan. I'm happy to draw the line also and leave it at that. He's a legend.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

From Jan's Website

Good to see him man up and apologize and say all that needed to be said. Maybe someday he'll spill his guts, maybe he won't. But for me to hear him say he's sorry on this day is enough, and far more than any number of nameless cowards will likely ever have the integrity to do.

Legend indeed.

 

[mr. tibbs]

[...] for me to hear him say he's sorry on this day is enough, and far more than any number of nameless cowards will likely ever have the integrity to do.

Legend indeed.

Quoted for truth.

I realize this post adds nothing to the conversation, but I want to voice my support of Ulle, and this is really kinda my only venue by which to do it.

So there. ;P

 

[Old&slow]

The Ullrich decision shows how corrupt he Contador decision was. Contador gets his results vacated and credit for the time served. But Ullrich gets his results vacated but no credit. Not to mention they wrote the Contador decision to paint him in the best light possibile.

The give a convicted cheater and liar like Contador a slap on the wrist but end up wasting their time harassing Ullrich for no reason. Just a complete waste of time. They should just get rid of all drug controls if the system will be so biased.

 

[leftover pie]

Good to see him man up and apologize and say all that needed to be said. Maybe someday he'll spill his guts, maybe he won't. But for me to hear him say he's sorry on this day is enough, and far more than any number of nameless cowards will likely ever have the integrity to do.

Legend indeed.

:concur:

10 charrrrr . . . .

 

[sniper]

:concur:

10 charrrrr . . . .

I found the part of his admission where he says that his lawyers had adviced him to deny the allegations (knowing they were true) to be quite revealing. Tells us alot about why so few cyclists actaully admit. Apparently, from a legal point of view, it is still alot more beneficial to deny and stay silent than to admit.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Our local newspaper (Aachener Nachrichten) had a huge Ullrich story on the first page of the sports section. It was so full of errors I was totally disgusted.....

Susan

 

[SiAp1984]

Also: at Telekom and T-Mobile Ullrich had a number of excellent and loyal team mates. He was generous in that he was willing to have the team also work for Zabel, going against the standard logic that you can't have a team working for both sprints and the overall, but that was actually his call. The idea that Ullrich didn't have adequate team support is just a fiction.

I totally agree. Team support never was the problem (except for the 1999 Vuelta, which he still won; it is in the CN archive where he is quoted that he does not know if his team which had not been set up for overall contention would be able to help him win the race), leaving aside the weak TTTs by TMO. Guys like Bölts, Guerini and even Riis have always been strong helpers. Ullrich had an obvious lack of discipline in the winter which caused him problems in the Tour. And he - for reasons I don't know - gave up his dynamic style of 1997 to this more grinding, static style. In 1997, he was able to counter attacks by guys like Pantani and Virenque. From 1998 on, he wasn't able to do that any more. In 2004 and 2005, his ability to accelerate in the mountains was completely gone. Had he kept his 1997 abilities, he would have at least followed the USP-train in the mountains, therefore not needing an exceptionally strong team for himself.

As to his "statement", it is what I expected. He has absolutely no reason to speak out about the time before 2005. And he "confessed" to a minimal account, showed some pieces of self-criticism and that's it. I am quite sure he will return as a DS one day, and I am looking forward to it.