Jayco al-'Ula and its GreenEdge predecessors

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Posted at the time, that Orica losing Matthews was disappointing - Though Matthews received an offer too good to refuse.

I think it was best for both team and rider, Orica have different priorities and Matthews always seemed like a square peg in a round hole at the team, he looks a better fit at a euro team.

Yes and no; Orica was for the most part good for Matthews and his development and in his final years, he wasnt called back to race in AUS. The Gerrans issue may've cost him one race win in Orica colours (Amstel) but in the long run was probably of little importance given Gerrans is likely to collect his superannuation at the end of this season.

Bling DID want to race cobbles but they already had a cobbles crew. He probably would've had to wait until Hayman retires before he ever got an outright leaders spot in those races.

The sticking point was his Green Jersey ambitions. Had he been willing to remain classics oriented and just targetting stage wins at GT (esp Tour), then Orica would've probably gone far stronger to keep him as he is not a sprinter overly reliant of a full train; is mountain survivable; is a major asset for a TTT plus some assistance to a GC man. But a serious Green Jersey assault alongside a serious GC campaign is nigh impossible to bring off successfully and will only become more so with the reduction in team numbers to 8.

The problem for Bling is that he's most likely to come across this same issue at Sunweb the moment that TomD says "this year I'm targetting the Tour"

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

White jersey is barely a consolation. Yates is riding on his own most of the time. He's a talented rider but he's going nowhere with this team.
Orica havent been protagonists in any of the significant moves nor been in the mix to win any of the stages.

They've kept him out of trouble in the bunch and made sure he was well placed today when Postal instigated the crosswind move. Very few teams have had numbers present when its "got down to business" in the mountains and on most Kreuziger has been there for as long as possible. They're clearly less bothered about a stage win this year when a Top 5 may be in the offing .... their focus has changed, end of story.

IF he had already won a White Jersey then, maybe, yes there would be a "so what" factor ... but he hasn't so I think HE, and his team, would think it worthwhile.

Going nowhere ?? Another top 10 at a GT; 2nd at a major WT one-weeker this season ?? Please illuminate us with just WHAT team he should go to to progress ?? SKY ..... not sure he'd think being drafted into the Froome support train a positive career move ? BMC ..... since when have they ever got it together at a GT since Evans ? The other English speaking teams Cannondale & DD havent the budget nor the resources. What non-English speaking teams would give him GT leadership or if so, have the resources to make those promises a reality ?

 

[Lupi33x]

Re: Re:

White jersey is barely a consolation. Yates is riding on his own most of the time. He's a talented rider but he's going nowhere with this team.
Orica havent been protagonists in any of the significant moves nor been in the mix to win any of the stages.

They've kept him out of trouble in the bunch and made sure he was well placed today when Postal instigated the crosswind move. Very few teams have had numbers present when its "got down to business" in the mountains and on most Kreuziger has been there for as long as possible. They're clearly less bothered about a stage win this year when a Top 5 may be in the offing .... their focus has changed, end of story.

IF he had already won a White Jersey then, maybe, yes there would be a "so what" factor ... but he hasn't so I think HE, and his team, would think it worthwhile.

Going nowhere ?? Another top 10 at a GT; 2nd at a major WT one-weeker this season ?? Please illuminate us with just WHAT team he should go to to progress ?? SKY ..... not sure he'd think being drafted into the Froome support train a positive career move ? BMC ..... since when have they ever got it together at a GT since Evans ? The other English speaking teams Cannondale & DD havent the budget nor the resources. What non-English speaking teams would give him GT leadership or if so, have the resources to make those promises a reality ?

BMC would be a good fit actually, or Sky. Froome wont be around forever and Landa is moving on already.

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

Posted at the time, that Orica losing Matthews was disappointing - Though Matthews received an offer too good to refuse.

I think it was best for both team and rider, Orica have different priorities and Matthews always seemed like a square peg in a round hole at the team, he looks a better fit at a euro team.

Yes and no; Orica was for the most part good for Matthews and his development and in his final years, he wasnt called back to race in AUS. The Gerrans issue may've cost him one race win in Orica colours (Amstel) but in the long run was probably of little importance given Gerrans is likely to collect his superannuation at the end of this season.

Bling DID want to race cobbles but they already had a cobbles crew. He probably would've had to wait until Hayman retires before he ever got an outright leaders spot in those races.

The sticking point was his Green Jersey ambitions. Had he been willing to remain classics oriented and just targetting stage wins at GT (esp Tour), then Orica would've probably gone far stronger to keep him as he is not a sprinter overly reliant of a full train; is mountain survivable; is a major asset for a TTT plus some assistance to a GC man. But a serious Green Jersey assault alongside a serious GC campaign is nigh impossible to bring off successfully and will only become more so with the reduction in team numbers to 8.

The problem for Bling is that he's most likely to come across this same issue at Sunweb the moment that TomD says "this year I'm targetting the Tour"

I'm not saying Orica was bad for him or he was bad for Orica but I believe he was always going to be better fit at a Euro team and in one where he would get leadership and chances to ride in races he wanted, Orica wouldn't of taken him to the Tour and yeah he wouldn't get to much experience on the cobbles. I don't see many issues with Matthews racing the Tour alongside Dumoulin, he won't get a full team behind him and chasing the Green would be a no no but he would be given freedom to target stages and be a help to Dumoulin in some stages . Sunweb won't have the budget to recruit that many top shelf domestiques for when Dumoulin decides to have a real go at the Tour GC.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

White jersey is barely a consolation. Yates is riding on his own most of the time. He's a talented rider but he's going nowhere with this team.
Orica havent been protagonists in any of the significant moves nor been in the mix to win any of the stages.

They've kept him out of trouble in the bunch and made sure he was well placed today when Postal instigated the crosswind move. Very few teams have had numbers present when its "got down to business" in the mountains and on most Kreuziger has been there for as long as possible. They're clearly less bothered about a stage win this year when a Top 5 may be in the offing .... their focus has changed, end of story.

IF he had already won a White Jersey then, maybe, yes there would be a "so what" factor ... but he hasn't so I think HE, and his team, would think it worthwhile.

Going nowhere ?? Another top 10 at a GT; 2nd at a major WT one-weeker this season ?? Please illuminate us with just WHAT team he should go to to progress ?? SKY ..... not sure he'd think being drafted into the Froome support train a positive career move ? BMC ..... since when have they ever got it together at a GT since Evans ? The other English speaking teams Cannondale & DD havent the budget nor the resources. What non-English speaking teams would give him GT leadership or if so, have the resources to make those promises a reality ?

BMC would be a good fit actually, or Sky. Froome wont be around forever and Landa is moving on already.

And would the other SKY riders who may have GC aspirations who have been slaving away for Froome suddenly step aside amicably to grant precedence to either of the Yates twins ?? Thats a bit of an assumption to make.

BMC have bags of money but they don't seem to be able to get their acts together come GT time. Frankly I don't think Porte has what it takes nor TJVG .....nor do I think Dennis but neither has their mega budget been able to put together a GT GC line-up anywhere near the quality of SKY or Movi at their best. Orica's best GT line-up would be stronger than BMC's

The future of either Yates come end of next season will be interesting. I think one can co-habit with Chaves but I'm not sure that both can so we may see them part company. As to where is hard to say; whilst the 2 teams you named look obvious, I don't think either are necessarily surefire bets to pay off for them career-wise (esp BMC)

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Posted at the time, that Orica losing Matthews was disappointing - Though Matthews received an offer too good to refuse.

I think it was best for both team and rider, Orica have different priorities and Matthews always seemed like a square peg in a round hole at the team, he looks a better fit at a euro team.

Yes and no; Orica was for the most part good for Matthews and his development and in his final years, he wasnt called back to race in AUS. The Gerrans issue may've cost him one race win in Orica colours (Amstel) but in the long run was probably of little importance given Gerrans is likely to collect his superannuation at the end of this season.

Bling DID want to race cobbles but they already had a cobbles crew. He probably would've had to wait until Hayman retires before he ever got an outright leaders spot in those races.

The sticking point was his Green Jersey ambitions. Had he been willing to remain classics oriented and just targetting stage wins at GT (esp Tour), then Orica would've probably gone far stronger to keep him as he is not a sprinter overly reliant of a full train; is mountain survivable; is a major asset for a TTT plus some assistance to a GC man. But a serious Green Jersey assault alongside a serious GC campaign is nigh impossible to bring off successfully and will only become more so with the reduction in team numbers to 8.

The problem for Bling is that he's most likely to come across this same issue at Sunweb the moment that TomD says "this year I'm targetting the Tour"

I'm not saying Orica was bad for him or he was bad for Orica but I believe he was always going to be better fit at a Euro team and in one where he would get leadership and chances to ride in races he wanted, Orica wouldn't of taken him to the Tour and yeah he wouldn't get to much experience on the cobbles. I don't see many issues with Matthews racing the Tour alongside Dumoulin, he won't get a full team behind him and chasing the Green would be a no no but he would be given freedom to target stages and be a help to Dumoulin in some stages . Sunweb won't have the budget to recruit that many top shelf domestiques for when Dumoulin decides to have a real go at the Tour GC.

Fair points. I will agree that he is one AUS rider who would fit in reasonably well at a number of Euro teams and I DO think that M.White's innate conservatism as a DS served occaisionally to his detriment; but neither did he part company with Orica on acriminious terms. I think both parties are fully cognisant that you never know how things may play out in future and they just might find themselves potentially doing business together in future.

I think that Cort (if he stays) and Edmondson will be the fast guys Orica looks to bring on over the next few years (Ewan a real non-fit) but there may be some openings on the puncheur side of things with some of that crew getting on in years and likely to move on over the next few years. Had he not been wanting to chase Green, I' think he may have been taken to the Tour by Orica but I will accept that it would've been no certainty.

I do, however, think that the potential clash of priorities with TomD is a very real one as I think that for at least the next 2 seasons, the Green Jersey will be front and centre of Matthew's season objectives. Put against that, the reality that TomD is already a GT winner .... and that has to carry some weight when it comes to who has precedence with regards to precedence, team selections and recruitment.

 

[yaco]

Lupi seems to have a problem with Gerrans,Matthews, Orica and Keenan - A common theme.

Of course Matthews would have been selected for the TDF if still at Orica - You can fight for the green jersey and GC, though it's harder to fight for GC and have a leading sprinter.

Anyway we are seeing a trend where sprint trains are less relevant in GT's - Even with Gt teams being reduced to eight riders you can still a GC contender and sprinter/green jersey in the one team - GC guy needs two strong mountain domestics and sprinter/green jersey needs one lead out rider, which leaves you with three riders to fill utility roles.

 

[yaco]

Doubt S.Yates will ever end up at Sky. Still bad blood after BA leaked Yates positive back in 2016.

Anyway interestingly Ewan is down to ride the Tour of Poland at the end of the month.

Orica named a strong team for Ordinika Classika one day race which is a lead in to San Sebastian.

Hope Orica give Edmondson and Cort plenty of opportunities to sprint in the second part of the year.

 

[Frankschleck]

they should send kreziguer in the break in one of the next stages. He looks pretty solid and was pretty good in massif central stage.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

Lupi seems to have a problem with Gerrans,Matthews, Orica and Keenan - A common theme.

Of course Matthews would have been selected for the TDF if still at Orica - You can fight for the green jersey and GC, though it's harder to fight for GC and have a leading sprinter.

Anyway we are seeing a trend where sprint trains are less relevant in GT's - Even with Gt teams being reduced to eight riders you can still a GC contender and sprinter/green jersey in the one team - GC guy needs two strong mountain domestics and sprinter/green jersey needs one lead out rider, which leaves you with three riders to fill utility roles.

It seems Australians in general ! Some Australian must've crossed him in a bad way at some point ... lets face it there is as big a quota of profoundly unlikeable Australians as there are in any nationality but our friend seems to carry it over to all.

The issue with Green Jersey alongside GC is not so much potential reallocation of a few riders to help at stage finishes but rather the need to also sprint for intermediates and the utilisation/burning of resources this can often involve. At times this will run counter to what your plans may be for later in the stage.

Doubt S.Yates will ever end up at Sky. Still bad blood after BA leaked Yates positive back in 2016.

Anyway interestingly Ewan is down to ride the Tour of Poland at the end of the month.

Orica named a strong team for Ordinika Classika one day race which is a lead in to San Sebastian.

Hope Orica give Edmondson and Cort plenty of opportunities to sprint in the second part of the year.

Yes, it does appear that the Yates twins aren't necessarily sold on going to SKY and whilst it may happen at some point, for at least one of them, it would need to be on their terms.

Where are these team announcements as I haven't seen anything actually official out of Orica ? DID see the Tour of Poland supposed start list (SY, Ewan, Keukeleire, Haig, Tuft, Mezgec, Docker & Bewley). A few make sense (Ewan, Mezgec); SY riding here might suggest that White's 3 GC men to Vuelta was pure smoke and mirrors; maybe a useful pre Vuelta hit out for Haig & Bewley.

Definitely would like to see Cort given some really serious racing. Edmondson .... would be nice but given its his first real pro year, no need to go OTT

Sending Kreuziger up the road ? Not the worst idea but they may want to keep him alongside Yates for as long as possible. Other options could be Chaves or Howson

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

Sending Kreuziger up the road ? Not the worst idea but they may want to keep him alongside Yates for as long as possible. Other options could be Chaves or Howson

I guess Chaves is saving himself for the break. Kreuziger would be good option too and, as his fan, I'd like to see him in the break more than Chaves and Kreuziger deserves that more.

Howson? Why Howson? The guy has crap form at the Tour. He's useless at the mountains.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Sending Kreuziger up the road ? Not the worst idea but they may want to keep him alongside Yates for as long as possible. Other options could be Chaves or Howson

I guess Chaves is saving himself for the break. Kreuziger would be good option too and, as his fan, I'd like to see him in the break more than Chaves and Kreuziger deserves that more.

Howson? Why Howson? The guy has crap form at the Tour. He's useless at the mountains.

What is this business about "deserving this/deserving that" ? Team directors will make call with regards to what will best suit the team's ultimate goals for both the race and/or the stage. Whilst we can guess that their peak goal is to fully secure SY's White Jersey and GC top ten; nobody on these pages are privy to what the instructions may be for this stage.

Howson would be allowed in the break with absolutely zero question and Chaves was ultimately let go .... Kreuziger at 25th may be given slightly less leeway from those who may be wanting to ensure their top20 (and larger swag of WT points), silly as that may sound those points can be vital for WT teams lower in the point standings and for riders who may be going off contract. It may also be the case that Kreuziger's primary designated role for the Tour is to be Kreuziger's main man in the mountains. It may not be ..... I'm just putting forward an alternate viewpoint.

I do take issue with your remark that Howson is "useless in the mountains" as his record at last year's Giro & Vuelta clearly demonstrated this was not the case. Is he in poor form at this Tour or, given that Chaves is primarily riding for race miles going into the Vuelta, he may also be being "backed off" and told to ride with less intensity on many stages with the Vuelta in mind ? There is a case that can be made for either ..... he was clearly in sufficient form/condition to ride a long turn on the front of the peleton yesterday when the team was riding hard to set SY for the crosswind action.

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

Sending Kreuziger up the road ? Not the worst idea but they may want to keep him alongside Yates for as long as possible. Other options could be Chaves or Howson

I guess Chaves is saving himself for the break. Kreuziger would be good option too and, as his fan, I'd like to see him in the break more than Chaves and Kreuziger deserves that more.

Howson? Why Howson? The guy has crap form at the Tour. He's useless at the mountains.

He's actually improved his climbing over the last couple of seasons, he may not have shown up much this Tour but to say he's useless in the mountains is simply not true.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

Sending Kreuziger up the road ? Not the worst idea but they may want to keep him alongside Yates for as long as possible. Other options could be Chaves or Howson

I guess Chaves is saving himself for the break. Kreuziger would be good option too and, as his fan, I'd like to see him in the break more than Chaves and Kreuziger deserves that more.

Howson? Why Howson? The guy has crap form at the Tour. He's useless at the mountains.

He's actually improved his climbing over the last couple of seasons, he may not have shown up much this Tour but to say he's useless in the mountains is simply not true.

Can you read? I said at the Tour and by that I mean this Tour.

He was decent at the rest of the season, but at the Tour, he's useless at mountains until now.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Sending Kreuziger up the road ? Not the worst idea but they may want to keep him alongside Yates for as long as possible. Other options could be Chaves or Howson

I guess Chaves is saving himself for the break. Kreuziger would be good option too and, as his fan, I'd like to see him in the break more than Chaves and Kreuziger deserves that more.

Howson? Why Howson? The guy has crap form at the Tour. He's useless at the mountains.

He's actually improved his climbing over the last couple of seasons, he may not have shown up much this Tour but to say he's useless in the mountains is simply not true.

Can you read? I said at the Tour and by that I mean this Tour.

He was decent at the rest of the season, but at the Tour, he's useless at mountains until now.

That may be what you intended to say, and we will now accept that to be the case but that is not how it reads. Being in two separate sentences they read as two separate statements with no clear connections to one another.

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

Sending Kreuziger up the road ? Not the worst idea but they may want to keep him alongside Yates for as long as possible. Other options could be Chaves or Howson

I guess Chaves is saving himself for the break. Kreuziger would be good option too and, as his fan, I'd like to see him in the break more than Chaves and Kreuziger deserves that more.

Howson? Why Howson? The guy has crap form at the Tour. He's useless at the mountains.

He's actually improved his climbing over the last couple of seasons, he may not have shown up much this Tour but to say he's useless in the mountains is simply not true.

Can you read? I said at the Tour and by that I mean this Tour.

He was decent at the rest of the season, but at the Tour, he's useless at mountains until now.

Yes I can read which is why I responded the way I did, maybe if it read like this "Howson? Why Howson? The guy has crap form at the Tour and been useless in the mountains" then I would of agreed with you.

 

[yaco]

Interesting that Cort is out of Orica - I suspect Edmondson got the nod because he will be a better classics rider, though Cort is slightly quicker in a sprint. Of course with Trentin coming to Orica this boosts the classics squad - Orica never comments on transfer speculation so bank the Trentin rumours.

Interested to see how S.Yates goes in the next two stages - I doubt him in multi mountain stages - Wait and see.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

Sending Kreuziger up the road ? Not the worst idea but they may want to keep him alongside Yates for as long as possible. Other options could be Chaves or Howson

I guess Chaves is saving himself for the break. Kreuziger would be good option too and, as his fan, I'd like to see him in the break more than Chaves and Kreuziger deserves that more.

Howson? Why Howson? The guy has crap form at the Tour. He's useless at the mountains.

What is this business about "deserving this/deserving that" ?

That business is called one's opinion. As you have yours opininions, I have mine.

Team directors will make call with regards to what will best suit the team's ultimate goals for both the race and/or the stage.

Don't you say. I thought I will decide that, make call to the Orica DS and tell him "do this, don't do that" I've seen you speculate here who will take part on what race; and now you are talking this... You seem acting contradictory.

Whilst we can guess that their peak goal is to fully secure SY's White Jersey and GC top ten; nobody on these pages are privy to what the instructions may be for this stage.

Yep. What do you want to say by this? You could spare us this mentoring.

and Chaves was ultimately let go ....

yep, my guess was right.

Kreuziger's primary designated role for the Tour is to be Kreuziger's main man in the mountains.

I Agree with that 100% Anyway, only DS know what is riders role, right?

It may not be ..... I'm just putting forward an alternate viewpoint.

You aren't. It has crossed my mind, too.

I do take issue with your remark that Howson is "useless in the mountains"as his record at last year's Giro & Vuelta clearly demonstrated this was not the case.

I was talking about this Tour. Record at ast year's Vuelta and Giro doesn't demonstrate he is not useless at the mountains at the Tour.[/quote]

Is he in poor form at this Tour or, given that Chaves is primarily riding for race miles going into the Vuelta, he may also be being "backed off" and told to ride with less intensity on many stages with the Vuelta in mind ? There is a case that can be made for either ..... he was clearly in sufficient form/condition to ride a long turn on the front of the peleton yesterday when the team was riding hard to set SY for the crosswind action.

Doesn't make a sense to me. Simon is often alone at the mountains, because (sadly) Kreuziger is pretty subpar, at least until now. Because of that I think if they had someone able to stay with Simon at the mountains, he would. On top of that, I guess team has enough moutain helpers for the Vuelta even without Howson.
People who are able to take long turn on the flat are often bad at mountains; proves nothing.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

Sending Kreuziger up the road ? Not the worst idea but they may want to keep him alongside Yates for as long as possible. Other options could be Chaves or Howson

I guess Chaves is saving himself for the break. Kreuziger would be good option too and, as his fan, I'd like to see him in the break more than Chaves and Kreuziger deserves that more.

Howson? Why Howson? The guy has crap form at the Tour. He's useless at the mountains.

He's actually improved his climbing over the last couple of seasons, he may not have shown up much this Tour but to say he's useless in the mountains is simply not true.

Can you read? I said at the Tour and by that I mean this Tour.

He was decent at the rest of the season, but at the Tour, he's useless at mountains until now.

Yes I can read which is why I responded the way I did, maybe if it read like this "Howson? Why Howson? The guy has crap form at the Tour and been useless in the mountains" then I would of agreed with you.

It's pretty clear from the context that I meant Tourr IMHO. Dirkrpovin understood that. Anyway, glad you agree at the end.

 

[StryderHells]

@Kokoso. Dirk read it the same way as I did "That may be what you intended to say, and we will now accept that to be the case but that is not how it reads. Being in two separate sentences they read as two separate statements with no clear connections to one another." but it doesn't matter and yes I do agree with you about Howson so we are on the same page now

 

[StryderHells]

Re:

Interesting that Cort is out of Orica - I suspect Edmondson got the nod because he will be a better classics rider, though Cort is slightly quicker in a sprint. Of course with Trentin coming to Orica this boosts the classics squad - Orica never comments on transfer speculation so bank the Trentin rumours.

I wonder if they chose Edmondson over Cort or if Cort is getting other offers in which he gets more money and or more opportunities to ride for himself, he's shown enough for other teams to be interested in him. Trentin would be a big signing and a great addition to the classics squad.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

Interesting that Cort is out of Orica - I suspect Edmondson got the nod because he will be a better classics rider, though Cort is slightly quicker in a sprint. Of course with Trentin coming to Orica this boosts the classics squad - Orica never comments on transfer speculation so bank the Trentin rumours.

Interested to see how S.Yates goes in the next two stages - I doubt him in multi mountain stages - Wait and see.

On the surface, somewhat disappointing but then again, I suspect that he was always going to attract some significant market interest once he came off contract .... and he may've received an extremely attractive offer from elsewhere. As yet, he had not fully locked down a cobbles leader's role and whilst I forsee some reshuffling of personnel on that front, he still may've only been option B/C at many of those races.

Edmondson's excellent first full year should certainly see him given some advanced opportunities next season; however Cort's reported exit should not mean that Orica just automatically keeps Ewan ..... he's just completely incompatible with the path Orica seems to be pursueing. Trentin .... will be very interesting to see just where he fits in as regards racing program ..... and how he fits into an English speaking team. Gerrans departing; one assumes to retirement; comes as little surprise given his age and diminishing returns with crashes in recent years.

Yates .... certainly gave up some real time today yet neither did he completely fall in a heap. How it plays out tomorrow as regards the White Jersey will be interesting as Meintjes appears the better attritional survivor but he will also be banking on Yates really falling apart as Yates is the superior TTer.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Interesting that Cort is out of Orica - I suspect Edmondson got the nod because he will be a better classics rider, though Cort is slightly quicker in a sprint. Of course with Trentin coming to Orica this boosts the classics squad - Orica never comments on transfer speculation so bank the Trentin rumours.

I wonder if they chose Edmondson over Cort or if Cort is getting other offers in which he gets more money and or more opportunities to ride for himself, he's shown enough for other teams to be interested in him. Trentin would be a big signing and a great addition to the classics squad.

My guess it's more a case of keeping Keukeliere who is the rock of the classics squad and can also do jobs in GT's and getting Trentin who will be given a protected role at races like Gent Warelgem and KBK, while believing Edmondson can win a classic.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Interesting that Cort is out of Orica - I suspect Edmondson got the nod because he will be a better classics rider, though Cort is slightly quicker in a sprint. Of course with Trentin coming to Orica this boosts the classics squad - Orica never comments on transfer speculation so bank the Trentin rumours.

Interested to see how S.Yates goes in the next two stages - I doubt him in multi mountain stages - Wait and see.

On the surface, somewhat disappointing but then again, I suspect that he was always going to attract some significant market interest once he came off contract .... and he may've received an extremely attractive offer from elsewhere. As yet, he had not fully locked down a cobbles leader's role and whilst I forsee some reshuffling of personnel on that front, he still may've only been option B/C at many of those races.

Edmondson's excellent first full year should certainly see him given some advanced opportunities next season; however Cort's reported exit should not mean that Orica just automatically keeps Ewan ..... he's just completely incompatible with the path Orica seems to be pursueing. Trentin .... will be very interesting to see just where he fits in as regards racing program ..... and how he fits into an English speaking team. Gerrans departing; one assumes to retirement; comes as little surprise given his age and diminishing returns with crashes in recent years.

Yates .... certainly gave up some real time today yet neither did he completely fall in a heap. How it plays out tomorrow as regards the White Jersey will be interesting as Meintjes appears the better attritional survivor but he will also be banking on Yates really falling apart as Yates is the superior TTer.

Yates was a bit unlucky that he had no GC guy with him for the final 28kms, and he shipped half the 90 seconds in the last 6km which were flat - I suspect his best GT race will be the Vuelta which has shorter climbs.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Interesting that Cort is out of Orica - I suspect Edmondson got the nod because he will be a better classics rider, though Cort is slightly quicker in a sprint. Of course with Trentin coming to Orica this boosts the classics squad - Orica never comments on transfer speculation so bank the Trentin rumours.

I wonder if they chose Edmondson over Cort or if Cort is getting other offers in which he gets more money and or more opportunities to ride for himself, he's shown enough for other teams to be interested in him. Trentin would be a big signing and a great addition to the classics squad.

My guess it's more a case of keeping Keukeliere who is the rock of the classics squad and can also do jobs in GT's and getting Trentin who will be given a protected role at races like Gent Warelgem and KBK, while believing Edmondson can win a classic.

I think its possibly a case of Cort receiving a very good offer from elsewhere and Orica saying, "whilst we'd like to keep you, that we cannot offer you outright leadership for those cobbled races". What may also be an issue is the reduction in GT team sizes from 9 to 8 which, at a GC oriented team, may've made his GT selection at Orica more tenuous whereas another team may've been able to say 'we're not after GC, if you're fit you get the ride". Conversely, Edmondson's big engine & TT capacity would serve in his favour re GC selection.

Probably correct re Orica and cobbles. I can see Hayman collecting his superannuation after next year's PR ... if not at the end of this season but I'd have Keukeleire (who in essence has been another development project by Orica) and Durbridge as the peak cobbles leaders with Edmondson being the peak development project. Trentin can certainly enter the equation as perhaps could Mezgec at certain races (I'd be happy re-signing him no matter what they intend doing re Ewan next year).