MacRoadie said:
The fact that the Op had a question about Joe, in and of it's self, is not the issue. Certainly, there is a connection between Joe and doping at Rock Racing, and Rock Racing is certainly a prominent part of the Novotzky investigation. In that regard, the nature of Joe's activities certainly is an appropriate Clinic topic.
While Joe has friends and supporters here, no one is suggesting that what he did wasn't wrong or that he should be applauded for his actions.
The point of contention I have is with the specific nature of the OP's question: it had nothing to do with what he sold, how he sold it, or to who he sold it: all questions of a highly probabtive nature and geared towards forwarding the discussion of the greater case.
Ok. as a relative newcomer here and someone who has read about Mr. Papp, Rock, Landis, etc., (and so as not to disappoint TFF who fully expects me to "feign detachment"--how about if I'm not feigning it, but am really detached? Does that count?), let me ask those questions which thus far, I don't think anyone, including Mr. Papp, has answered on this forum:
1. We know what he sold. According to the stories in Velo News and other print media, we've also read about "how" he sold HGH and EPO, i.e., over the internet. We've also read that he kept a relatively complete list of customers. So, that beng the case,
2. Who did he sell it to?
3. Perhaps also of more probative value to the current ongoing investigation, I've also read reports (e.g., in Velo News) from the time of the plea deal in 2/2010, where Mr. Papp was quoted as saying to the media something like, "I've done a lot to try to clean up the sport" and he referred to things he had done publicly (such as speaking before groups, etc.), and also "things I cannot reveal publicly" (or words to that effect). The latter comments caused many of those who covered the 2/2010 court hearings to speculate that this was an indication that Mr. Papp had been or was "cooperating" for some time prior to the plea deal with the investigation into Rock Racing specifically and in U.S. cycling in general, and possibly even that he had worked undercover with the federal investigators following his reported meeting with the U.S. Attorneys' office, which I believe was reported to have taken place in 2008 (I could be mistaken about the exact timing but that is what I recall...at any event it was sometime well before he struck the plea bargain which was the subject of the court hearings in Feb. 2010). So the question is, was Mr. Papp also working with the Feds in some sort of undercover operation and how might that play into the current investigation?
I ask these questions in all sincerity and because they involve doping in cycling, which is what I understand this part of the forum has been created to discuss. If anyone can shed any light on the questions I've posed, please do so. If you can't then either don't respond or simply say that you can't.
And please, I respectfully request that whoever responds refrains from asking me to e-mail Mr. Papp directly. I'm not interested in a private response. This is a matter of public importance. He has become a public figure, just as every other cyclist who has been mentioned here in the Clinic in connection with doping is a public figure. If he wants to respond, I know he's a member here, and can do so. Please also don't tell me that this topic has been covered previously at some other time or somewhere else in the forum, or that I should use the "search" function. I've done that and I have not seen direct answers to those questions anywhere else.
We have all read about how Rock Racing and perhaps its connections to Mr. Papp may have a link to the current investigation. We know Mr. Papp also testified at the Landis CAS arbitration and that Landis was reportedly a "consultant" to Rock Racing. There are a lot of dots, but as far as I know, the may or may not be connected or purely coincidental. I think it's therefore highly probative and relevant to ask whether there really is any connection between information that Mr. Papp may possess or may have provided to the federal investigators or which has been reported in other places that I and others may not know about has any bearing on the current reported investigation of the use of doping products and/or methods that may have occurred with other teams, other cyclists, whether here or in Europe, South America, Cuba, Australia, etc. Such information could give us all better insight into what the real scope is of the current investigation that we've all been talking about, and might also put to rest some of the speculation.
And just as an aside, I really don't know why this topic should have created such a firestorm or why someone didn't just simply answer the OP's question, rather than creating a war about what his "motivation" was for asking the question. If we can all just stop insulting each other long enough to provide some relevant or useful information, that might go a long way towards informing the rest of us who aren't "insiders" about what's real and what's just speculation at best, or libelous and baseless allegations at worst.