sub-titled: "It's all Erik Saunders' Fault"
Here's the interview, and Erik Saunders' comments. Good times:
http://eriksaunders.net/?p=769
Here's the interview, and Erik Saunders' comments. Good times:
http://eriksaunders.net/?p=769
The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to
In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.
Thanks!
flicker said:Joes' arrogance filters through my computer like a 50s horror monster....
JMBeaushrimp said:I'm coming to eat your brains....
Must be nice to look cute, cheat, enable, profit, and still not be in any real trouble...
I think that may change, coming up on the current scandal and all.
Let's see...
flicker said:Let's see J you talkin bout my Lord, next Governator of Texas? Jest sayin'
We have a sayin here in Florida, we might as well win, I mean(lets' just cheat to win.) Jest sayin!
It wasn't that Joe was a cheater, everyone needs an edge. It was the despicablle manner in which he cheated, and doggone it, he got caught.
And then he makes a video about it. He might as well be contacheat or armar... ah forget it I got ahead of myself, lets try again... Lord Armstrong is not a cheat he is just mis-understood like me.
JMBeaushrimp said:Easy there, tiger. I was talking about Joe looking so cute and innocent.
If your boy was half as cute as little Joe Papp, you might have an argument. Lance is old and crusty, and not half the liar Joe is. Step it up, B*tches... It's no fun having a lying cheat for a hero...
flicker said:Your right, little Joe is pretty cute for a straight guy! I still do not understand why he would make a video like that.
My guy has a hella six-pack which is petty darn good for a crusty old guy.
Alpe d'Huez said:I conducted that interview with Joe...brevity
straydog said:Alpe firstly, much as you may find it hard to believe, I really enjoyed your interview, when I first watched it during my recent....ahem....vacation.
Secondly, can I maybe suggest that before this turns into an anonymous Papp bashing session ...
Alpe d'Huez said:I conducted that interview with Joe, over a year ago now. It's been up on the web for months.
Alpe d'Huez said:So I don't know why Erik is upset at Joe, or perhaps me.
D-Queued said:1. LOL
2. Agreed.
Joe is a friend of a very good - non-doping - friend of mine. He/Joe is high profile, obviously, and cannot avoid scrutiny even though he is nowhere near the F-factor or L-factor in importance. He is a real person, though, and he is never going to have to worry about having enough ill-gotten sporting gaints to start a save cancer foundation.
Dave.
131313 said:Sorry for the retread. I had no idea this was that old. My coach actually sent this to me, as he used to race with Saunders. He stumbled across it while looking to see if ES was talking smack yet about Chuck Coyle.
Sorry to hear about your loss(es). Obviously, that puts worrying about doping in cycling in it's proper perspective...
Well, umm....without naming him directly, he basically suggests that a doped up Erik Saunders motoring past him on a climb is what led him to believe he had to dope to be competitive. I could see Saunders taking great exception to that, since he's long had the reputation as a loud-mouthed, annoying, talented and clean bike racer. He's a better racer than he's given credit according to some who've raced with him. My coach described him as an incredibly strong guy who unfortunately wasn't really great at anything, and wasn't willing to "play ball", either politically or with a needle.
Except Joe doesn't mention him by name. Nor by team. Nor by specific event. No one really knew who he was talking about, nor could have really guessed with accuracy, nor ever even tried, until Erik alluded to it, and you pointed it out.131313 said:Well, umm....without naming him directly, he basically suggests that a doped up Erik Saunders motoring past him on a climb is what led him to believe he had to dope to be competitive. I could see Saunders taking great exception to that...
straydog said:maybe didn't articulate his rebuttal clearly. So I hope he takes the time to do so in the future. Maybe even talk to Joe about it? I just hope the insults and "you're going to prison" stuff gets edited next time, because I honestly don't think it is helping him or reflecting well on him.
Alpe d'Huez said:Except Joe doesn't mention him by name. Nor by team. Nor by specific event. No one really knew who he was talking about, nor could have really guessed with accuracy, nor ever even tried, until Erik alluded to it, and you pointed it out.
I'm not going to try to read too much between the lines on what Erik is writing, but when I do come across him, I will certainly ask him that. Why with all of cycling's problems in recent years, concentrate on Joe? I'd like to know where his focus lies, today, and his reasoning. If it upset him that much, I'm surprised he didn't talk to Joe directly about it. Or after I posted the interview make his own direct claims about doping and his beliefs. He doesn't need anyone to interview him for that.
As an aside, while Erik was using blanket language, I think it's a mistake for anyone to refer to Joe as being "stupid". He graduated summa cum laude from the University of Pittsburgh in the top 1% of his class, was granted a fellowship only offered to a few dozen people per year nationwide, is fluent in Spanish, very well cultured and knowledgeable about world affairs and history. Even the argument that he doped wouldn't make him stupid, unless one wishes to apply that same blanket rule to the other 90% of professional cyclists/athletes in the world (and many others in history). You might meet him and find him to be a complicated person with a difficult past, but you won't conclude that he's "stupid".
Alpe d'Huez said:Except Joe doesn't mention him by name. Nor by team. Nor by specific event. No one really knew who he was talking about, nor could have really guessed with accuracy, nor ever even tried, until Erik alluded to it, and you pointed it out.
131313 said:I don't know ES well at all. I was just starting doing senior racing when he was at the end of his career. I ran into him on a few training rides and did a couple of local races with him. That said, even I know him well enough to find a lot of humor in your response. This is how this guy articulates things! In a 90 minute crit he spent 60 minutes of it telling various people "you're stupid" and "you really, really suck at bike racing", etc. I think the only words he said to me were "put your training wheels back on, Opie", or something to that effect.
For good or bad, he's one of those guys who doesn't think before he speaks. It all comes out unfiltered. I'll say this; his interview will a lot funnier than Papp's interview!
But back to the Papp thing, it's a tough situation. You see guys crushing you and you start thinking "man, these guys have to be juiced". And often times, they are. OTOH, sometimes you may be looking for an excuse, and not even realizing it. An excuse to explain your own poor performance (I've been there) or an excuse to "level the playing field" (I'm not willing to go there). The seeds of doubt planted by prevalent doping end up being almost as destructive as the doping itself, until you stop worrying about it when you're on the bike.
131313 said:You're kidding me, right?
"an American sprinter, on a Swiss team, who's the same age as me (sic) in the Tour of Ireland around 2001"
really??
fatandfast said:I conclude he is stupid for beating women. Never an excuse doped or not doped. 100's of guys have ridden at his level in the US..his name remains not for wins but as a doper and snitch. Beating women is enough to toss the rest of anything else. He should have taken Zen studies at U of P