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Johan Bruyneel talks AC/LA

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Digger said:
So what would you say if Alberto had taken all the team cars to collect his family and Lance had no lift to the TT? Is this really the actions of a team player?

AC would just be mimicking LA's often misunderstood madcap antics. They'd say AC can't think for himself when playing a harmless little practical joke and has to resort on imitating His Majesty. Look, lemme break it down for you AC supporters or Lance haters. For those Lance zombies:eek: it's like this

LA = Gooooooood
AC = Baaaaaaaad

It pretty much ends there. The rest is just spin.
 
TheArbiter said:
When Contador one his first Tour, in the last time trial he asked for Armstrong to sit in the team car behind with Bruyneel. He gave him loads of advice on how to improve his time trialing.

What? There was actually a teamcar available? You mean Contador can only get the teamcar to follow if Armstrong is sitting in it. Smart move by the Kid: Tell Armstrong that he wants advice so he can actually have a car to follow him. Thats like when I tell Grandpa I like to hear his stories about the war so he lets me drive his car albeit with him in the passage seat. Just as well he's blind and deaf so I can poke my girlfriend in the backseat without him knowing.


and just a hint...... love your work but its "won" not "one". Keep it up.
 
thehog said:
What? There was actually a teamcar available? You mean Contador can only get the teamcar to follow if Armstrong is sitting in it. Smart move by the Kid: Tell Armstrong that he wants advice so he can actually have a car to follow him. Thats like when I tell Grandpa I like to hear his stories about the war so he lets me drive his car albeit with him in the passage seat. Just as well he's blind and deaf so I can poke my girlfriend in the backseat without him knowing.


and just a hint...... love your work but its "won" not "one". Keep it up.

I want to die like my Grandpa did, sleeping and peaceful, not screaming, like his passengers.
 
racerralph said:
Whoa pardner, let's slow down a little! We're talkin' Heras-1, Salvoldelli-1( and he ain't in love with JB, in case you haven't heard that one) Contador-4 (2, in '08, which were seen over by either Demol or Yates. And one which was presided over this year, by JB in a totally chaotic, very negative manner), and finally 7 by Lance, the Deputy in JB's Kingdom. The Parts(those four men), are bigger than the whole(the myth of The Hog)AC amplified what can be done without any of JB's help. Sorry, but this makes it hard for me to buy the JB= Superstar storyline.

Dude,your splitting hairs here. What difference does it make weather Salvodelli likes him or not? Did he win a Grand Tour on a Bruyneel team? Most of Ferretti's riders didn't like him either but they were glad they rode for him.

If I had a need to see Bruyneel's resume, I would expect to see these successes listed, and justifiably so. Please name another DS with a stronger record in professional cycling.

This is not a Fanboy post. I am not overly smitten with Bruyneel, but results speak for themselves. Whatever his talents are, the record is pretty compelling. Even without Lance his record would still be probably all time top 10.

It's easy to have distain for powerful teams. I hate the Yankees and the Lakers, but I can't take anything away from their accomplishments in their respective sports. Bruyneel's teams have the best record in Grand Tour history. You can argue small details, but you cannot deny the fact.
 

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Don't play dumb, guys. You know full well that Armstrong/Bruyneel transformed the training program for the Tour - a model that all top riders now try to follow. Contador at Discovery will have been a first hand benefactor of this.

And will you stop citing this mix up about some cabs as if it were fact.
 
TheArbiter said:
Don't play dumb, guys. You know full well that Armstrong/Bruyneel transformed the training program for the Tour - a model that all top riders now try to follow. Contador at Discovery will have been a first hand benefactor of this.

And will you stop citing this mix up about some cabs as if it were fact.

Okay guys, I'm done for the day...the above post has just made decide that. Not sure I could handle another post like it for today anyway. Let me be proud of the work when I wake up in the morning!! :D

Arbiter, just one question, you've not being following hte sport too long me thinks....cycling and training, and training camps did exist prior to 1999, just so you know. USP and Disco did take 'other things' to a new level though, you're right there.

Later
 
dblueroom said:
That simply means they had 8 very strong riders - I had never disputed that. Astana's winning strategy is to have a winning card (AC) that is so out of reach from the pack, and let the rest strong riders to take care of the team win. Well you have the money to pay for these riders, then you can certainly play such bullying yet effective strategy. Astana is clearly not a cohesive and unified team - no exemplary teamwork and collaboration like what team Saxo Bank did for the Schlecks and Andy for Frank. Astana's team result is much like solid ITT performance, each of its own.

Were we watching the same Tour? I recall a near flawless Team Time Trial by Astana that was almost embarrassingly better than most. I recall days of watching Astana riding tempo at the front and keeping their GC man very well protected. I recall decisive moments in the mountains when Astana out numbered al other teams in the break 2 or 3 to 1. Those would be my definition of exemplary teamwork and collaboration.

What's yours?
 
A

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Quote:
Originally Posted by richwagmn
Anyone who has a fast cadence and stands up a lot when they climb is copying LA. He invented all those things. Sheesh



hfer07 said:
wow-I guess you have never seen or known anything about Fausto Coppi....
but that's what happens when people started following cycling in 1999.....

I think the quote from Rich was with tounge firmly planted in cheek...
 
TheArbiter said:
Don't play dumb, guys. You know full well that Armstrong/Bruyneel transformed the training program for the Tour - a model that all top riders now try to follow. Contador at Discovery will have been a first hand benefactor of this.

And will you stop citing this mix up about some cabs as if it were fact.

Dude, you really should put the little <rolleyes (sarcastic)> dohicky behind a statement like that, otherwise somebody is gonna think you are really that dumb.:D
 
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VeloFidelis said:
Were we watching the same Tour? I recall a near flawless Team Time Trial by Astana that was almost embarrassingly better than most. I recall days of watching Astana riding tempo at the front and keeping their GC man very well protected. I recall decisive moments in the mountains when Astana out numbered al other teams in the break 2 or 3 to 1. Those would be my definition of exemplary teamwork and collaboration.

What's yours?


Yep. Agreed. But for the behind-the-scenes drama Astana put on a clinic. Unfortunately, this line of thinking ain't too popular 'round here.
 
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Hugh Januss said:
See, that happens when you don't use those smilie dohickies.

Is dohickies a word?

I like it... in fact I'm going to work in the word "dohickies" in as many future posts as possible.:D
 

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Digger said:
Okay guys, I'm done for the day...the above post has just made decide that. Not sure I could handle another post like it for today anyway. Let me be proud of the work when I wake up in the morning!! :D

Arbiter, just one question, you've not being following hte sport too long me thinks....cycling and training, and training camps did exist prior to 1999, just so you know. USP and Disco did take 'other things' to a new level though, you're right there.

Later

Pssst, just because it's trendy to down play the massive change in the training program for the Tour that Armstrong applied, which had the effect of making the event so hard to win that top contenders will rarely try to win another grand tour in the same year, doesn't mean it's not true. How else do you think he won seven tours in a row? And don't give me that dope crap since you know all of his competitors were just as doped up, or even more so, than he was.

It does get frustrating the way cynical internet forum fun becomes 'fact' by repetition. Some people get so into it that they've actually convinced themselves that Armstrong is not one of the all time greats that transformed tour preparation for the next generation of riders. It's bizarre. I wonder if they really stop and think about what they're saying sometimes.
 
Hugh Januss said:
So Lance's twits were really put out by his press agent?
What happened "on the road" happened because Contador was the strongest rider and not because he got any support whatsoever from LA. You don't need the press to know what was going on. Look at the sourpuss on the podium, and listen to LA's constant snipeing, that is enough.

Forget Lance's tweets. He's an ***! It's well documented. But he's not a bad team mate. I challenge you to point to one instance on the road where he rode against Contador. He clearly stated he came to win. That is not the same as " I came to f@ck over my team mate". It just means to will be decided on the road.

If more than half the people on this site could see that Contador was the strongest in the first week, do you really think the Lance, Johan, Levi, and Andreas all missed it? It might shock some of you to know that these guys are all Professionals, and they don't have to like each other to do their jobs very well. Their own financial and career best interests are in being a good team player on the winning TDF team.

All the conspiracy theorists and and dissension mongers have been played like a fiddle for almost a month, by a guy who knows how to do it all too well. The press only wants the drama and the dirt, so it is in their best interests to make some. What do you suppose these guys say to each other when they sit down to dinner together every night for three weeks? Because they do, and I guarantee that the bullsh!t level is not one tenth of what you are being told it is.

Do I think Lance and Alberto like each other? Who cares!!? But I also don't think a rider should be gifted the Tour if a team mate can contest it without working directly against him, and aside from the media barrage of BS and innuendo, no one has shown any example of that. Please ignore the headlines and the Twitter posts and give an example on the road. I'm dying to see it.

I know we all loved it when Kloden and Ullrich chased Vino down years ago, and Telecom was imploding. It was great drama and cocktail conversation, but that didn't happen with Astana. They won with three guys in the top 6 and if Levi had not broken his wrist it could have been more. No one rode against another team mate. They won the Team competition by over 22 minutes! This is not the performance of a team falling apart.

Don't forget that most of Bruyneel's teams have been singularly focused behind Lance, or Alberto, and even Levi depending on the event. This is the first time I think any team ever had 4 TDF Podium finishers on the same team. The tactics needed to be different and media controversy and hype are valuable tools to have at your disposal when you are working all angles for a TDF win.

Lance will go on to Radio Shack and Bruyneel will come with the best of the Astana riders in tow. Any other solid Pro with half a brain, and no contract will make a solid career move and sign on as well. Alberto will likely go to a Spanish team where he feels loved and respected, but he will pay a lot of attention to the details and the team make up, because he knows better than all of us that it takes a very good team to win the TDF. And if he doesn't have one nearly as good as Astana, he won't.
 
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VeloFidelis said:
Forget Lance's tweets. He's an ***! It's well documented. But he's not a bad team mate. I challenge you to point to one instance on the road where he rode against Contador. He clearly stated he came to win. That is not the same as " I came to f@ck over my team mate". It just means to will be decided on the road.

If more than half the people on this site could see that Contador was the strongest in the first week, do you really think the Lance, Johan, Levi, and Andreas all missed it? It might shock some of you to know that these guys are all Professionals, and they don't have to like each other to do their jobs very well. Their own financial and career best interests are in being a good team player on the winning TDF team.

All the conspiracy theorists and and dissension mongers have been played like a fiddle for almost a month, by a guy who knows how to do it all too well. The press only wants the drama and the dirt, so it is in their best interests to make some. What do you suppose these guys say to each other when they sit down to dinner together every night for three weeks? Because they do, and I guarantee that the bullsh!t level is not one tenth of what you are being told it is.

Do I think Lance and Alberto like each other? Who cares!!? But I also don't think a rider should be gifted the Tour if a team mate can contest it without working directly against him, and aside from the media barrage of BS and innuendo, no one has shown any example of that. Please ignore the headlines and the Twitter posts and give an example on the road. I'm dying to see it.

I know we all loved it when Kloden and Ullrich chased Vino down years ago, and Telecom was imploding. It was great drama and cocktail conversation, but that didn't happen with Astana. They won with three guys in the top 6 and if Levi had not broken his wrist it could have been more. No one rode against another team mate. They won the Team competition by over 22 minutes! This is not the performance of a team falling apart.

Don't forget that most of Bruyneel's teams have been singularly focused behind Lance, or Alberto, and even Levi depending on the event. This is the first time I think any team ever had 4 TDF Podium finishers on the same team. The tactics needed to be different and media controversy and hype are valuable tools to have at your disposal when you are working all angles for a TDF win.

Lance will go on to Radio Shack and Bruyneel will come with the best of the Astana riders in tow. Any other solid Pro with half a brain, and no contract will make a solid career move and sign on as well. Alberto will likely go to a Spanish team where he feels loved and respected, but he will pay a lot of attention to the details and the team make up, because he knows better than all of us that it takes a very good team to win the TDF. And if he doesn't have one nearly as good as Astana, he won't.

Good stuff! You don't have to like Lance to see what went down on the road.
 
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Teamwork was essential to victory

Scott SoCal said:
Yep. Agreed. But for the behind-the-scenes drama Astana put on a clinic. Unfortunately, this line of thinking ain't too popular 'round here.

The TTT was essential to both AC and LA! :40 was the margin of victory over the Schlecks in the TTT, which was also LA's final margin to Frank. Do the math! And without LA's :18 margin in the TTT over Wiggs, those mountain stages would have been much more interesting, allowing for a possible gap by Wiggs on a descent or a late attack elsewhere.

And why is it so hard to understand that someone like Johan in the public eye has to be a very good politician? Johan doesn't want the label of a DS who splits teams, or is indecisive, so his statement simply panned the conflict. He is obviously rhetorically skilled. His blog statement should be viewed as simple rhetoric. Why do people take his word at face value? Simpletons!
 
TheArbiter said:
It does get frustrating the way cynical internet forum fun becomes 'fact' by repetition. Some people get so into it that they've actually convinced themselves that Armstrong is not one of the all time greats that transformed tour preparation for the next generation of riders. It's bizarre. I wonder if they really stop and think about what they're saying sometimes.

Well said!

Hey... did you know that Obama is not really a citizen! Yeah... I read it online. No birth certificate. Wow... imagine that...
 
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Let's not forget the '85 Tour Drama:

There are many similarities, but I don't recall ever hearing DS opine about the tension.

LeMond was not a happy, blond-haired boy!

From Wikipedia:
The 1985 Tour de France was the 72nd Tour de France, taking place June 28 to July 21, 1985.

Bernard Hinault would attempt to equal the records of Jacques Anquetil and Eddy Merckx who had each won the Tour de France five times. Hinault was unable to compete due to tendinitis in 1983. In 1984 Hinault had finished second to Laurent Fignon, and was threatened by Greg LeMond who ended in third position on the final podium. In order to ensure the best support, Hinault's La Vie Claire team recruited LeMond for the 1985 tour. In return for his support, Hinault promised on television that he would support LeMond the following year in the 1986 Tour de France.

Despite crashing on a fast descent and riding with black eyes due to his injuries, Hinault won and publicly again stated his promise to help LeMond the following year.
 
Scott SoCal said:
All vitriol aside, how do you suppose JB has been able to attract such talent over the years? If he were such a piece of (fill in the blank), then would the riders in the peleton not know this and steer clear?

Do you think JB being at RadioShack or Shack (whatever they are going to call it) will have one bit of trouble attracting and fielding a team at the very top end of the sport?

Once again, the perception of the folks on this forum and the perception of the folks actually involved in the sport are (seemingly) very different.

That's what makes this forum so entertaining. Most of these dudes are WAY out there and you never know what they're going to say next.
 
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hfer07 said:
wow-I guess you have never seen or known anything about Fausto Coppi....
but that's what happens when people started following cycling in 1999.....

Fausto Coppi had far too much class to deserve mention in this thread!
 

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VeloFidelis said:
Forget Lance's tweets. He's an ***! It's well documented. But he's not a bad team mate. I challenge you to point to one instance on the road where he rode against Contador.

Contador was clearly the fastest rider on the team from day 1. Armstrong was 4th fastest on his own team.

Hincapie told Lance that Columbia was going to split the field in the cross wind. Did Armstrong relay this info to his team leader? Nope, he did everything he could to put him in the gutter.

There is only one person on Armstrong's team, his name is Lance.
 
TheArbiter said:
Pssst, just because it's trendy to down play the massive change in the training program for the Tour that Armstrong applied, which had the effect of making the event so hard to win that top contenders will rarely try to win another grand tour in the same year, doesn't mean it's not true. How else do you think he won seven tours in a row? And don't give me that dope crap since you know all of his competitors were just as doped up, or even more so, than he was.

It does get frustrating the way cynical internet forum fun becomes 'fact' by repetition. Some people get so into it that they've actually convinced themselves that Armstrong is not one of the all time greats that transformed tour preparation for the next generation of riders. It's bizarre. I wonder if they really stop and think about what they're saying sometimes.
Well, that shut 'em up.

You have a good point.
 
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