Johan gets served

[mewmewmew13]

I'm suspicious that it is not him tweeting this stuff. Why would he ? ..and the bit about the 'chemistry set'?

smokescreen

 

[Polish]

That contest has been promoted for a month. It would be silly if they pretend that they always planned for Johan to blow off all his meetings and disappear

And the meeting at the airport was planned too - probably for at least a month. Remember a month ago you were saying that Johann would be looking for an excuse not to show up?

The part that was un-planned was the Leak. That threw a spanner in the works. No leak, Johann would still be here imo.

 

[BotanyBay]

And the meeting at the airport was planned too - probably for at least a month. Remember a month ago you were saying that Johann would be looking for an excuse not to show up?

The part that was un-planned was the Leak. That threw a spanner in the works. No leak, Johann would still be here imo.

Why would he abandon just because of that? Johan climbed out of a friggin ravine in the TDF. I figured he was tougher than this.

 

[Polish]

Why would he abandon just because of that? Johan climbed out of a friggin ravine in the TDF. I figured he was tougher than this.

That was a Great Stage! But it was not a "ravine", it was a steep rocky forested mountainside. "Where's Johhan?" "Where is he?" When he climbed up and out onto the road - Phil almost wet his pants while announcing. Johan just looked around quickly for a new bike and continued on in a flash. Johann is not one to dilly dally around. Task master.

 

[mthead14]

What if he actually intended to take the feds in the team car on Tuesday? And then send THEM to Italy?

 

[mewmewmew13]

And the meeting at the airport was planned too - probably for at least a month. Remember a month ago you were saying that Johann would be looking for an excuse not to show up?

The part that was un-planned was the Leak. That threw a spanner in the works. No leak, Johann would still be here imo.

Good diversionary practices...
but what do you think the 'pre-planned meeting' might have been about?

let's see....

 

[Polish]

Good diversionary practices...
but what do you think the 'pre-planned meeting' might have been about?

let's see....

I have answered that a few times already...but again.
I think it was questions regarding...
1) Ongoing Floyd Fraud case
or
2) Possible WhistleBlower Case
or maybe
3) Motion/Leak Case
But certainy NOT the Lance case. Thats' closed. Cleared.
And certainly NOT a New Johann case. There are enough cases already fcol.

 

[Caruut]

I have answered that a few times already...but again.
I think it was questions regarding...
1) Ongoing Floyd Fraud case
or
2) Possible WhistleBlower Case
or maybe
3) Motion/Leak Case
But certainy NOT the Lance case. Thats' closed. Cleared.
And certainly NOT a New Johann case. There are enough cases already fcol.

The idea of Lance Armstrong's former team manager having a meeting which has anything to do with Lance or himself is, as you say, absurd.

 

[Elagabalus]

And the meeting at the airport was planned too - probably for at least a month. Remember a month ago you were saying that Johann would be looking for an excuse not to show up?

The part that was un-planned was the Leak. That threw a spanner in the works. No leak, Johann would still be here imo.

You know what else was preplanned? The entire ToC which Johan had plans to attend. Sorry, Polish, he bailed out because of widow' ol weak. Hogwash. He got waylaid at the airport and now he's a pig in a poke.

 

[MarkvW]

I'll bet Johan, if and when he finally comments, will say something simple like he has no comment on a private legal matter not relating to his Team.

That puts up a very good stone wall. If it really is an ongoing federal investigation, the feds will remain quiet and there will never be any person available to corroborate VeloNation's source, unless Bruyneel himself gets leaky.

Doesn't federal service of a subpoena on Bruyneel tend to strongly indicate that the feds are making their OWN investigative decisions without the influence of Lance/Fabiani, and the other bad guys?

I can understand RR's argument about the "good feds" and the "influenced feds" because that can happen when different agencies (like DEA, FBI, and the USAG) are working at cross purposes, but when you talk about a subpoena (like Bruyneel's), you are talking about the almost certain involvement of the United States Attorney's Office. US Attorneys are not going to be working at cross purposes with other US Attorneys--especially in a high profile case like Armstrong/Tailwind/USPS, etc., that almost surely has involvement from the very top. In other words: Either the feds are conducting their independent investigation, or their investigation is being influenced by Armstrong and his buddies.

I've never bought the improper influence theory. It is based on the flimsiest basis and it vastly overstates Armstrong's political sway. At any event, Bruyneel's receipt of a federal subpoena (if true) totally kills the improper influence argument. Now, it seems obvious that the feds are trying to do the right thing (although reasonable minds may differ over what the 'right thing' is).

I don't think this is "clogging the toilet," as one poster crudely suggested. Informed speculation on where the feds are going to go is aided by knowing what animates the feds. If the feds are animated by Lance Armstrong and his buddies, they will go in one direction; if they are animated by honest law enforcement, they will go in another.

I don't buy that Johan was subpoenaed about the FFF. If he was subpoenaed by the feds, something else must be afoot. I can't think of anything else that didn't involve Tailwind-related bike racing. And Tailwind involves Weisel, Armstrong, and the whole motley crew.

A subpoena indicates less that the feds want to "get" the person served, and more that they want information. That's the whole idea of the subpoena. Inferring that Johan is the target of the investigation is premature. What do they want to know? Seems like the only good candidate is Tailwind-related doping? Any other ideas? What other useful stuff would Johan know?

If Johan was asked about Tailwind doping under oath, he'd be like a frog staked out on paraffin. He couldn't lie without a fearsome risk of perjury. A horde (of unknown size) of other Posties and Postie support personnel have surely already testified about his dope saturated teams. Surely Johan would take the 5th--otherwise he'd either perjure or incriminate himself up to his eyeballs. I doubt that the feds would bring Johan before the GJ just to hear him take the 5th--they subpoena because they want to learn stuff. My guess is that if Johan was subpoenaed, he got immunity, and he sang like a tweety bird. But we can hope Johan lied! It would make for a fabulous perjury indictment!

Then there's Lance. If all the team, including its boss Bruyneel, got immunity and testified, why wouldn't Lance (co-boss?) get immunity, too? And how would Lance respond?

The idea that Lance might have testified under immunity has already gotten me flamed. But if one of the feds' goals is recovering Postal Service money, what would work better to help build a case than immunized testimony backed by a meaningful threat of perjury? And who knows what potential perjury prosecutions the feds may already hold in their pockets?

 

[Race Radio]

 

[ElChingon]

So any sign of Joe-Han at the ToC? Haven't see a pic or heard a peep.

 

[scribe]

I don't understand what is going on.... I figured Johan would be locked away in a federal pen. :-?

 

[Race Radio]

I don't understand what is going on.... I figured Johan would be locked away in a federal pen. :-?

What gave you that idea?

 

[mewmewmew13]

I'll bet Johan, if and when he finally comments, will say something simple like he has no comment on a private legal matter not relating to his Team.

That puts up a very good stone wall. If it really is an ongoing federal investigation, the feds will remain quiet and there will never be any person available to corroborate VeloNation's source, unless Bruyneel himself gets leaky.

Doesn't federal service of a subpoena on Bruyneel tend to strongly indicate that the feds are making their OWN investigative decisions without the influence of Lance/Fabiani, and the other bad guys?

I can understand RR's argument about the "good feds" and the "influenced feds" because that can happen when different agencies (like DEA, FBI, and the USAG) are working at cross purposes, but when you talk about a subpoena (like Bruyneel's), you are talking about the almost certain involvement of the United States Attorney's Office. US Attorneys are not going to be working at cross purposes with other US Attorneys--especially in a high profile case like Armstrong/Tailwind/USPS, etc., that almost surely has involvement from the very top. In other words: Either the feds are conducting their independent investigation, or their investigation is being influenced by Armstrong and his buddies.

I've never bought the improper influence theory. It is based on the flimsiest basis and it vastly overstates Armstrong's political sway. At any event, Bruyneel's receipt of a federal subpoena (if true) totally kills the improper influence argument. Now, it seems obvious that the feds are trying to do the right thing (although reasonable minds may differ over what the 'right thing' is).

I don't think this is "clogging the toilet," as one poster crudely suggested. Informed speculation on where the feds are going to go is aided by knowing what animates the feds. If the feds are animated by Lance Armstrong and his buddies, they will go in one direction; if they are animated by honest law enforcement, they will go in another.

I don't buy that Johan was subpoenaed about the FFF. If he was subpoenaed by the feds, something else must be afoot. I can't think of anything else that didn't involve Tailwind-related bike racing. And Tailwind involves Weisel, Armstrong, and the whole motley crew.

A subpoena indicates less that the feds want to "get" the person served, and more that they want information. That's the whole idea of the subpoena. Inferring that Johan is the target of the investigation is premature. What do they want to know? Seems like the only good candidate is Tailwind-related doping? Any other ideas? What other useful stuff would Johan know?

If Johan was asked about Tailwind doping under oath, he'd be like a frog staked out on paraffin. He couldn't lie without a fearsome risk of perjury. A horde (of unknown size) of other Posties and Postie support personnel have surely already testified about his dope saturated teams. Surely Johan would take the 5th--otherwise he'd either perjure or incriminate himself up to his eyeballs. I doubt that the feds would bring Johan before the GJ just to hear him take the 5th--they subpoena because they want to learn stuff. My guess is that if Johan was subpoenaed, he got immunity, and he sang like a tweety bird. But we can hope Johan lied! It would make for a fabulous perjury indictment!

Then there's Lance. If all the team, including its boss Bruyneel, got immunity and testified, why wouldn't Lance (co-boss?) get immunity, too? And how would Lance respond?

The idea that Lance might have testified under immunity has already gotten me flamed. But if one of the feds' goals is recovering Postal Service money, what would work better to help build a case than immunized testimony backed by a meaningful threat of perjury? And who knows what potential perjury prosecutions the feds may already hold in their pockets?

Mark, I totally agree with you on the first bolded. It's not anything as flimsy as the FFF that they would subpoena Johan for.

The second bolded I disagree....Lance has been at the helm of everything, even though he likes to say he was 'just a rider' .
He wouldn't have 'lawyered up' so hugely if he had nothing to fear...he knows how dirty his dealings have been.

 

[MarkvW]

Mark, I totally agree with you on the first bolded. It's not anything as flimsy as the FFF that they would subpoena Johan for.

The second bolded I disagree....Lance has been at the helm of everything, even though he likes to say he was 'just a rider' .
He wouldn't have 'lawyered up' so hugely if he had nothing to fear...he knows how dirty his dealings have been.

I'd say Bruyneel and Armstrong were each managing the enterprise. And I'd agree that, at least after Armstrong's first win, that nothing happened without his say so. But I do think Bruyneel and Armstrong were partners, probably with Armstrong as the senior partner later on.

 

[scribe]

What gave you that idea?

How do they let him get away to Italy? Isn't that is what just happened?

 

[Race Radio]

How do they let him get away to Italy? Isn't that is what just happened?

I have not heard anything about him being charged or being the target of a possible criminal charge so he is free to go once he responds to the subpoena and talks to the friendly men from the government.

 

[mewmewmew13]

G-Men!

http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi3147040025/

 

[thehog]

I have not heard anything about him being charged or being the target of a possible criminal charge so he is free to go once he responds to the subpoena and talks to the friendly men from the government.

I think his hiding in the bus was so he wouldn't be pressured to change his statements. The long arms of Lance would have got to him somehow. I hope he told the truth.

On that note.... any word from Mr. 600?

 

[BotanyBay]

Maybe Hog was in SF because Weasel's federal prosecutorial district is ALSO in SF.

Food 4 thawt

 

[BotanyBay]

I have not heard anything about him being charged or being the target of a possible criminal charge so he is free to go once he responds to the subpoena and talks to the friendly men from the government.

I imagine he beat it out of town so that he'd be "less available" to them in the future.

 

[thehog]

So Johan acknowledged bring a chemistry set to help Frank at the Giro. Nice

Well if he did go to Italy it was a bad idea. Frank is about to abandon the Giro.

Chemistry set?

The words of a man going mad.

That team is toxic.

 

[andy1234]

Well if he did go to Italy it was a bad idea. Frank is about to abandon the Giro.

Chemistry set?

The words of a man going mad.

That team is toxic.

Why is Schleck about to abandon?

 

[doolols]

I'd say Bruyneel and Armstrong were each managing the enterprise. And I'd agree that, at least after Armstrong's first win, that nothing happened without his say so. But I do think Bruyneel and Armstrong were partners, probably with Armstrong as the senior partner later on.

You suspect that, and I suspect that, but legally Bruyneel was the Team Manager. Armstong was a rider. Maybe leader of the team, but he could argue that his responsibilities started and ended on the road. So any questions the feds may have regarding the running of the team as a whole, they'll go to the Hog.