Jonas Vingegaard: Something is Rotten

[Netserk]

Slightly inaccurate, the carbon re- breathing is not against the rules currently

Not if used to measure haemoglobin mass (like how Vingegaard says they are using it). It is however currently banned if used to provoke a physiological response, as it functions like xenon in that regard and fall under the same rule.

The haemoglobin measurement that they openly confess to use is not doping. When used as a hypoxia-inducible factor activating agent (S2.1.2), then it's banned just like xenon and cobalt are. The prohibited list doesn't have to name the substance for it to be banned ("Including, but not limited to:").

 

[Berniece]

Not if used to measure haemoglobin mass (like how Vingegaard says they are using it). It is however currently banned if used to provoke a physiological response, as it functions like xenon in that regard and fall under the same rule.

Can they check for that?

 

[Netserk]

Can they check for that?

Directly? Probably not. Just like that they can't check if you used a blood bag.

 

[Peyroteo94]

He is asking to ban carbon monoxide rebreather.
I don't like when riders act like they are defending a clean sport specially when they are doped to the gills

 

[Netserk]

I don't know what is the norm for French journalists when it comes to direct quotes and paraphrase, you should be better able to interpret the original article (judging by the formatting of the article, it seems to me that it's all paraphrase). The final question and answer is about CO.

Original source: https://www.lemonde.fr/sport/articl...sage-du-monoxyde-de-carbone_6503602_3242.html

Full article: https://archive.ph/uNOIe

Original exchange (well, after Le Monde's translation from English to French, I assume):

ChatGPT:

Visma-LAB rejects Le Monde's paraphrase and translation of his answer.

Afviser Vingegaard-historie: 'Det har han aldrig sagt'

Læs mere her

ekstrabladet.dk

Visma afviser
Ifølge Vingegaards hold - Visma Lease a-Bike - er de ord dog aldrig kommet ud af hans mund.

'Det er tydeligvis en fejlfortolkning og forvirring mellem sprog. Han har aldrig sagt det. Jonas er ikke typen, der anklager andre - det ved du,' skriver Vismas pressechef Sander Kleikers i en besked til Ekstra Bladet.

Ekstra Bladet har kontaktet Le Monde via mail og forsøgt at ringe til dem for en kommentar og for at se interviewet eller høre en eventuel lydfil med interviewet. De har endnu ikke svaret.

Translated:

Visma Denies
According to Jonas Vingegaard's team, Visma Lease a-Bike, those words were never spoken by him.

"It is clearly a misunderstanding and confusion between languages. He never said that. Jonas is not the type to accuse others—you know that," wrote Visma’s press officer, Sander Kleikers, in a message to Ekstra Bladet.

Ekstra Bladet has contacted Le Monde via email and attempted to call them for a comment, as well as to access the interview or listen to a possible audio recording of it. They have yet to respond.

As usual, sensational paraphrase is unreliable. If it's not a direct quote (and preferably with an accessible recording), such brief statements that doesn't sound like what the interviewee would ever say live are pretty much worthless.

 

[Rackham]

Visma-LAB rejects Le Monde's paraphrase and translation of his answer.

Afviser Vingegaard-historie: 'Det har han aldrig sagt'

Læs mere her

ekstrabladet.dk

Translated:


As usual, sensational paraphrase is unreliable. If it's not a direct quote (and preferably with an accessible recording), such brief statements that doesn't sound like what the interviewee would ever say live are pretty much worthless.

Either Le Monde got their interview wrong... or Visma is doing damage control.

It's an interesting story because Le Monde is a huge newspaper (& a 'respected' one, to an extent, i.e. even more so than L'Equipe these days). So... where's the truth? I guess we'll wait for Le Monde's response now.

Ekstra Bladet has contacted Le Monde via email and tried to call them for a comment and to see the interview or hear a possible audio file of the interview. They have not yet responded.

 

[Netserk]

Either Le Monde got their interview wrong... or Visma is doing damage control.

It's an interesting story because Le Monde is a huge newspaper (& a 'respected' one, to an extent, i.e. even more so than L'Equipe these days). So... where's the truth? I guess we'll wait for Le Monde's response now.

If the direct quote of Vingegaard had been that juicy, I don't think they would have gone with a paraphrase of all of his answers.

 

[Rackham]

If the direct quote of Vingegaard had been that juicy, I don't think they would have gone with a paraphrase of all of his answers.

I don't think they did paraphrase though? I saw the original article and it's not formatted in a paraphrased way, unless I'm mistaken. https://archive.ph/uNOIe#selection-2529.0-2537.261

Bolded = question, then Vinge's answer, at least according to le Monde.

Depuis plusieurs mois, l’inhalation de monoxyde de carbone fait polémique. Confirmez-vous avoir eu recours à cette méthode et, si oui, pouvez-vous expliquer en quoi cela consiste ?​

Mon équipe utilise le monoxyde de carbone pour mesurer le volume sanguin et la masse totale d’hémoglobine. On inhale le monoxyde une première fois, avant d’effectuer un stage en altitude. A la fin de celui-ci, on réitère l’opération pour calculer notre capacité maximale d’absorption d’oxygène.
Mais certaines équipes détournent son usage en inhalant régulièrement de faibles doses de monoxyde de carbone, ce qui provoque un gain significatif de performance de leurs coureurs. Ce n’est pas juste et il faudrait que l’Agence mondiale antidopage l’interdise.

So if it's incorrect... they've put literal words in his mouth. It's not presented as paraphrased.

 

[Netserk]

In all big media I read and am familiar with, it's not a direct quote if it isn't inside quotation marks (or with other typographical markings of a quote).

The language of his answers is just clearly not his own. I've never heard him phrase his answers like that. His answers in that article are all much tighter and sharper than how he usually speaks.

 

[YellowSocks]

In all big media I read and am familiar with, it's not a direct quote if it isn't inside quotation marks (or with other typographical markings of a quote).

Le Monde doesn't use quotation marks if the whole article is an interview, with no paraphrase.
They of course offer a right to reply if they think they may have published inaccurate information.

 

[kingjr]

Newspaper interviews are usually edited for things like clarity, readability, and style conformity, rather than presented as direct, verbatim quotes. And perhaps also to make it juicier, if they can get away with it.

 

[YellowSocks]

to make it juicier

Not Le Monde's style, but the interview was made by a special correspondant, so who knows.

I don't understand why Visma would use a danish newspaper as an intermediate (and what danish newspaper... I went to their website and... WOW ). If they directly write to Le Monde, they will get an answer. I am not sure they really want one. It feels like their usual sneaky communication here.

 

[Rob5091]

Visma press officer Sander Kleikers "talking it back" (in other words, you didn't hear what you just heard) as they say. Was he the one trying to stop Vingegaard talking?