Jonas Vingegaard: Something is Rotten

[Salvarani]

he looked surprised really didnt he, that first glance the camera got after Pog finished wasnt one of sort of a rider who kind of was already beaten in the race at least, and finishing 2nd was an amazing result he could be proud of, it was really a did you just say he beat me by a minute look, and then that emotionless mask descended again. I thought that was interesting reaction

It was really the mask falling off.

The "love" wasnt enough for Jonas this time?

They need to up the dosage on the "love" for the biggest doper in history.

 

[RedheadDane]

I think the thread title is not true anymore, although we don‘t know what Vingegaard could do without a lung injury.

Technically, it's been not true since at some point before Dauphine last year. As the old title included "Rasmussen".






(Sure, the name change was only registered with the UCI at the beginning of this year, but I'm pretty sure it happened - and got registered with Danish authorities - when they got married.)

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I think the thread title is not true anymore, although we don‘t know what Vingegaard could do without a lung injury.

Pogenheimer nuked VinGodzilla. But the monster can rise from the bottom of the ocean stronger than ever, we will see next year.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

It is crazy that despite the crash, he thought he would win. Him and the team expected him to do it!

If that is not the most outrageous thing in all of this, I dont know what is.

i mean, he had his best level ever bar 1 or 2 bad days.. he wouldve won with the level in the previous years...

 

[chris_sssss]

i mean, he had his best level ever bar 1 or 2 bad days.. he wouldve won with the level in the previous years...

your´re right. Jonas didn´t lose because he was bad...it was just Pogacar who was stronger than last year and even stronger than in the Giro...numbers say that he improved 5-8% compared to May what is absolutely incredible...

 

[Cookster15]

your´re right. Jonas didn´t lose because he was bad...it was just Pogacar who was stronger than last year and even stronger than in the Giro...numbers say that he improved 5-8% compared to May what is absolutely incredible...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUfW1qJbOTc


Listen to the Visma team car [click the link below the video if you haven't seen this]. Visma genuinely believed they had Pogacar's measure right up until Pog attacked. Vingegaard's level was absurd considering the injuries and loss of training he suffered since his horrific April crash.

Before Pog's attack.

we believe he will get into problems eh

After Pog's attack..

really really good job Jonas, Pogacar is better and we have to accept it eh

On the "accept" comment, I really gained respect for Vingegaard this Tour doping or not. Knowing what he has come back from he was quite heroic in the face of Pogacar's onslaught. Last year Pogacar completely collapsed, this year despite all the setbacks Vingegaard never collapsed and also rode two super strong TTs. Kudos to him.

 

[Nick2413]

Sort of OT but still interesting. Vingegaard has gained 3 seconds on Pogacar net from 2021-2024 Tours not including bonus seconds, and lost around 2 mins including bonus. Pogacar has taken time on him 20 times and Vingegaard’s only done it 6 times.

 

[fbjim]

which tracks if you follow the racing, even before this year Pogacar was noted, and criticized for excessively attacking for small time gains on multiple stages versus going for one or two big blows.

 

[fbjim]

On the "accept" comment, I really gained respect for Vingegaard this Tour doping or not. Knowing what he has come back from he was quite heroic in the face of Pogacar's onslaught. Last year Pogacar completely collapsed, this year despite all the setbacks Vingegaard never collapsed and also rode two super strong TTs. Kudos to him.

his interview at Le Lioran was really well done, I think. in a way i was also "happy" to see him break down in tears on Isola - it was really the first time he had lost the Tour (not counting his debut year) and it's nice to see that, discounting any Clinic aspects, that the race still means a great deal to riders.

 

[ElDesordenado]

I'm curious to see how Vingegaard will do in a couple of weeks in Tour of Poland. That race is an important part of his history: the 2019 race when he was leading the GC after the penultimate stage some seconds ahead of Sivakov, then cracked in the last stage and lost more than 14 minutes in the final stage. Often cited as an example of the nerves he later managed to handle ...

Then, the year after, he finished 8th in the GC. I suppose that was one of the last times Fuglsang (2nd in GC) finished ahead of Vingegaard in a stage race. I still remember how a month before the 2021 TdF, the Danish national team coach said Fuglsang was DK's best GC rider with Vingegaard being a future prospect. That changed quickly.

Says something about the wild leap of form that happened for Vingegaard in that 2019-21 period, especially 2020-21.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Says something about the wild leap of form that happened for Vingegaard in that 2019-21 period, especially 2020-21.

Says something about how legendary and hard to win Tour of Poland is. Only real men can win it and Teddy is still too afraid to even take part.

 

[AmRacer]

Says something about how legendary and hard to win Tour of Poland is. Only real men can win it and Teddy is still too afraid to even take part.

You need big balls to win Tour of Poland.

 

[ElDesordenado]

You need big balls to win Tour of Poland.

Vingegaard couldn't win it, but maybe now that his real potential has been unlocked ...

 

[Cookster15]

his interview at Le Lioran was really well done, I think. in a way i was also "happy" to see him break down in tears on Isola - it was really the first time he had lost the Tour (not counting his debut year) and it's nice to see that, discounting any Clinic aspects, that the race still means a great deal to riders.

Yes, I felt similar sympathy. I think him breaking down was symptomatic of the pressure he felt as two time defending champion and also his team getting fully behind him. I am not a Vingegaard fan but he was expected to do the impossible. Not just beat a rampant Pogacar but to reach a higher level just three months after massive injuries.

 

[ElDesordenado]

Yes, I felt similar sympathy. I think him breaking down was symptomatic of the pressure he felt as two time defending champion and also his team getting fully behind him. I am not a Vingegaard fan but he was expected to do the impossible. Not just beat a rampant Pogacar but to reach a higher level just three months after massive injuries.

It was also the first time in several years that things didn't go according to plan for him. He'd just been improving and improving, and his team seemed in control. Suddenly all that planning went out the window

 

[Cookster15]

It was also the first time in several years that things didn't go according to plan for him. He'd just been improving and improving, and his team seemed in control. Suddenly all that planning went out the window

Yes. He and Visma were forced to confront bad luck. Like Pogacar after LBL last year.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Yes, I felt similar sympathy. I think him breaking down was symptomatic of the pressure he felt as two time defending champion and also his team getting fully behind him. I am not a Vingegaard fan but he was expected to do the impossible. Not just beat a rampant Pogacar but to reach a higher level just three months after massive injuries.

Vingo should definitely become more liked following this Tour, he showed human side. I warmed to him as well - not necessarily after this stage, more like big respect for overcoming difficulties, appearing in the Tour in great shape and making the race more interesting.

 

[ElDesordenado]

Vingo should definitely become more liked following this Tour, he showed human side. I warmed to him as well - not necessarily after this stage, more like big respect for overcoming difficulties, appearing in the Tour in great shape and making the race more interesting.

I understand that, although I suppose from a clinic perspective - now that we're in this part of the forum - this year's Vinge performance should get the alarm bells ringing as loudly as last year's ITT. Coming back from the ICU in the course of a few months and putting out his best numbers ever. In that sense, he's lucky that Pog stole the headlines this year; otherwise Vinge would have looked grotesquely good, even to the most blindly enthusiastic spectators ie the Danish TV2 Tour coverage.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

I understand that, although I suppose from a clinic perspective - now that we're in this part of the forum - this year's Vinge performance should get the alarm bells ringing as loudly as last year's ITT. Coming back from the ICU in the course of a few months and putting out his best numbers ever. In that sense, he's lucky that Pog stole the headlines this year; otherwise Vinge would have looked grotesquely good, even to the most blindly enthusiastic spectators ie the Danish TV2 Tour coverage.

The way things seems to stand right now, I am not so sure about this. The sport is clean now, there are almost no doping cases anymore (compared to what used to be), the science has improved soo much (again and again, after at least the last times with Armstrong and Sky) And so it goes.. So it's all for real, the numbers can be celebrated. There seems to be near zero awareness other than some obligatory questions. They may be raised but there are ready made answers to make them go away, to use them as a form of reassurance that everything is in order, rather than to use them as a critical instrument.
So I am really not sure if Vingegaard wouldn't have turned into a miracle story to fuel the myth of cycling. A triumph of the will over the body, a remarkable feat of work, dedication and superior training methods.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The sport is clean now

 

[Froome]

I understand that, although I suppose from a clinic perspective - now that we're in this part of the forum - this year's Vinge performance should get the alarm bells ringing as loudly as last year's ITT. Coming back from the ICU in the course of a few months and putting out his best numbers ever. In that sense, he's lucky that Pog stole the headlines this year; otherwise Vinge would have looked grotesquely good, even to the most blindly enthusiastic spectators ie the Danish TV2 Tour coverage.

If he didn't had the injuries in April, he would be around 7 w/kg in 40 minutes during the Tour, and i can safely say this when i see guys like Landa improving as much or more than him this year with 34 years and witha inferior doping programm, plus the fact i never said Vingegaard was clean.

In the spring he already did a good jump in terms of level comparing to the previous year.

What i didn't expected was Pogacar doing 6.8 w/kg in 40 minutes, but after seeing the improvement of other guys like Landa and Gee, plus the fact UAE has a lot of money and resources to do a good doping programm, then it makes all the sense in the world the perfomances he did.

 

[SHAD0W93]

If he didn't had the injuries in April, he would be around 7 w/kg in 40 minutes during the Tour, and i can safely say this when i see guys like Landa improving as much or more than him this year with 34 years and witha inferior doping programm, plus the fact i never said Vingegaard was clean.

In the spring he already did a good jump in terms of level comparing to the previous year.

What i didn't expected was Pogacar doing 6.8 w/kg in 40 minutes, but after seeing the improvement of other guys like Landa and Gee, plus the fact UAE has a lot of money and resources to do a good doping programm, then it makes all the sense in the world the perfomances he did.

We were told Pogacar would be better, he was focusing on long climbs, and he has looked better all year. Without the injury Vinge and Pog are most likely similar and if both have zero problems next year they’ll probably be pushing even higher numbers.

 

[velaso montador]

We were told Pogacar would be better, he was focusing on long climbs, and he has looked better all year. Without the injury Vinge and Pog are most likely similar and if both have zero problems next year they’ll probably be pushing even higher numbers.

Thats just wishful thinking and thats okei of course but not much else. There actually isnt much problem to reach top shape in 3months theres plenty of evidence look no further than Crass this year, crashed same time argueable worse and top form in Tour.

There is so many cases that its no problem getting in top shape in that span the problem is time and the super rest in between which time stopped him from which lays the base for the 3 week, thats it nothing else.

Vingegaard will have the same coach he has had in Tim Heemskerk AND the same program he has had so its only a .... hope I would say but who knows but far from certain and most likely not that he can gain that much cause the leap is huge lets not kid ourself -- its even more logical Pogacar would just increase it with only 1 year in with new coach, program and he is younger still only 25.

He is also tapped out in kg to lose semi. Just the bottom line. It is what it is I would look out for Evenpoel more if I was Vingegaard. But ofc course can always dream nothing wrong with that.

 

[ElDesordenado]

Vingegaard will have the same coach he has had in Tim Heemskerk AND the same program he has had so its only a .... hope I would say but who knows but far from certain and most likely not that he can gain that much cause the leap is huge lets not kid ourself -- its even more logical Pogacar would just increase it with only 1 year in with new coach, program and he is younger still only 25.

Pogacar said we'll probably see even higher numbers next year, and more records being broken. So I guess the arms race is full on! Who'll be willing to take it to the most extreme? Who's willing to take the biggest risks? And who responds the best?

He is also tapped out in kg to lose semi. Just the bottom line. It is what it is I would look out for Evenpoel more if I was Vingegaard. But ofc course can always dream nothing wrong with that.

I certainly hope Vingegaard doesn't lose more weight. He already looks almost transparent and weirdly frail.

Evenepoel, I agree, will probably come back even stronger next year. He seemed like a transformed rider compared to the guy who rode the Vuelta last year. It's still quite a step up to match Vingegaard's level this year, but if this is only the beginning of the Evenepoel transformation, he could become a serious TdF contender.

 

[Netserk]

Vingegaard was too lean this year because of the loss of muscle mass due to his hospital stay. He will be heavier and more powerful next year.