Jonas Vingegaard: Something is Rotten

[yaco]

I think Vingegaard saying pretty much the same thing as Romain Bardet (i.e. I'm doing my best numbers and can't compete anymore) makes this post worth being here.
And anyway Vingegaard really deserves his place in this part of the forum.

That is irrelevant. The post belongs in the general part of the forum. Name anything in the article that hints at doping.

 

[SHAD0W93]

That is irrelevant. The post belongs in the general part of the forum. Name anything in the article that hints at doping.

Post is fine being in both parts of the forum, leaves enough open to talk about the normal and clinical side of the article.

 

[dazaau]

That is irrelevant. The post belongs in the general part of the forum. Name anything in the article that hints at doping.

The poster wanted to discuss it in reference to doping claims. Not sure what the issue is.

 

[ElDesordenado]

That is irrelevant. The post belongs in the general part of the forum. Name anything in the article that hints at doping.

It was a feel good tv interview with Vingegaard and his wife. Both started crying at various points when talking about the crash and the following recovery process. Not the moment for questions about doping - it wasn't that kind of interview.

However, as I wrote before, I find it interesting and relevant in the context of this part of the forum to hear his own explanations of what from the outside looks like a very remarkable/incredible/unbelievable/miraculous recovery and post-crash training process.

It's like when he was asked back in 2022 about the leap in his time trial performance - from what the national team coach had called a decent (in Danish: "fornuftig") time trial ability to consistently being top 3 in the TdF - and he said he'd been working a lot on aerodynamics.

 

[ElDesordenado]

whilst the numbers are always a bit random about how much fitness you lose in only 2 weeks and whether pro athletes recover quicker because of the routine or literal muscle memory. any extended time off the bike absolutely crashes your power numbers, and it takes time to rebuild.

the only way time off the bike boosts your performance, is if you were overtraining to begin with and not allowing enough body recovery time for the efforts. but pro cyclists numbers are analysed to death by the teams, theres no way JV wouldnt have spotted that from his data.

Doesn't make sense to me either. Unless his level prior to the crash was just so outrageously high that it had enough buffer built in to allow for a long break without falling behind the other top riders.

Who knows how strong he would have been without that crash. His 2023 level was already scary

 

[Andre]

well maybe the reference to doping was in the act that Vingo had to say something about his quick return to form "less weight less muscle" or whatever. Maybe to justify it? Not sure

 

[ElDesordenado]

well maybe the reference to doping was in the act that Vingo had to say something about his quick return to form "less weight less muscle" or whatever. Maybe to justify it? Not sure

Who knows. But I think it's fair to say that there are some pretty big contradictions and paradoxes in this cycling era. We hear about this constant strive towards perfection and increasing attention to detail. Everything being optimized. Yet, apparently, Pogacar didn't know how to train properly until he changed his coach ahead of this season, and Vingegaard finished 2nd in last year's Vuelta without having studied the route before hand and, as far as I remember, with no altitude training after the Tour; then, this year, he finished 2nd in the TdF in the wake of a life threating crash and with only a month and a half-two months' training. If everything is in fact about these miniscule twists and tweaks of detail, then how are these leaps and miracles possible?

 

[Rackham]

Peter Ian Staker. Hott Fuzz fans will get the reference. I mean check out this beauty...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1880584982009094324

View: https://x.com/CyclingUpToDat3/status/1880584982009094324

In words to Le Monde, the Dane explained once again how the Dutch team claims to use it: "My team uses carbon monoxide to measure blood volume and total hemoglobin mass. We inhale the monoxide a first time, before doing an altitude training camp. At the end of it, we repeat the operation to calculate our maximum oxygen absorption capacity," or as it's more commonly known, the VO2Max.

Taken in small doses, it has been highly suggested that it could improve the riders' ability to increase their VO2Max, increasing the body's ability to turn oxygen into energy, and so be able to put out more power. Vingegaard himself has been asked about this subject several times since the Tour de France, but he hints at being concerned over the misdoing of rivals who may take advantage of the method.

"Some teams divert its use by regularly inhaling low doses of carbon monoxide, which causes a significant gain in performance of their riders," he states.

I salute this man's bullshitting skills. Bravo.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Peter Ian Staker. Hott Fuzz fans will get the reference. I mean check out this beauty...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1880584982009094324

View: https://x.com/CyclingUpToDat3/status/1880584982009094324








I salute this man's bullshitting skills. Bravo.

Da Fishy eats da Lugworms, no need for monoxide sniffing!

 

[Tim Cahill]

I don't think Visma are doing monoxide tbh, the timing isn't right.

 

[Netserk]

I salute this man's bullshitting skills. Bravo.

I don't know what is the norm for French journalists when it comes to direct quotes and paraphrase, you should be better able to interpret the original article (judging by the formatting of the article, it seems to me that it's all paraphrase). The final question and answer is about CO.

Original source: https://www.lemonde.fr/sport/articl...sage-du-monoxyde-de-carbone_6503602_3242.html

Full article: https://archive.ph/uNOIe

Original exchange (well, after Le Monde's translation from English to French, I assume):

Depuis plusieurs mois, l’inhalation de monoxyde de carbone fait polémique. Confirmez-vous avoir eu recours à cette méthode et, si oui, pouvez-vous expliquer en quoi cela consiste ?​

Mon équipe utilise le monoxyde de carbone pour mesurer le volume sanguin et la masse totale d’hémoglobine. On inhale le monoxyde une première fois, avant d’effectuer un stage en altitude. A la fin de celui-ci, on réitère l’opération pour calculer notre capacité maximale d’absorption d’oxygène.

Mais certaines équipes détournent son usage en inhalant régulièrement de faibles doses de monoxyde de carbone, ce qui provoque un gain significatif de performance de leurs coureurs. Ce n’est pas juste et il faudrait que l’Agence mondiale antidopage l’interdise.

ChatGPT:

For months, the use of carbon monoxide inhalation has been controversial. Can you confirm if you’ve used this method, and if so, can you explain what it involves?​

My team uses carbon monoxide to measure blood volume and total haemoglobin mass. We inhale carbon monoxide once before an altitude training camp. At the end of the camp, we repeat the process to calculate our maximum oxygen absorption capacity.

However, some teams misuse it by regularly inhaling small doses of carbon monoxide, which significantly enhances performance. That’s unfair, and the World Anti-Doping Agency should ban it.

 

[snipeheem]

Peter Ian Staker. Hott Fuzz fans will get the reference. I mean check out this beauty...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1880584982009094324

View: https://x.com/CyclingUpToDat3/status/1880584982009094324








I salute this man's bullshitting skills. Bravo.

Ngl he is funny guy

 

[Rob5091]

How does Vingegaard know other teams use CO for non-testing use?

 

[E_F_]

How does Vingegaard know other teams use CO for non-testing use?

He's invested all his TdF prize earnings in Big CO.

edit: Just remembered he's trying to get it banned... Then I realized this is just a ploy to get more teams to use it - raise awareness of the benefits of CO.

 

[Froome]

Pogacar will not accept the challenge Vingegaard is doing to him. He can't live now without sniffing carbon monoxide.

Vingegaard vs Pogacar Tour France 2025

without Monoxide carbon. Let's go!

 

[YellowSocks]

Vingegaard vs Pogacar Tour France 2025

without Monoxide carbon. Let's go!

Can they still use other stuff? I'm worried.

 

[Rob5091]

https://www.lemonde.fr/sport/articl...sage-du-monoxyde-de-carbone_6503602_3242.html

Googling translation gave me - which sounds unlike shy, retired, reticient etc Jonas -

... the rider of the Visma-Lease a Bike team surprised the special correspondent of Le Monde, by showing, on several occasions, derision and wishing to continue the discussion in all frankness, against the advice of his press officer.

Who's his "press officer/baby sitter" and do they still have a job at Visma?

 

[Tim Cahill]

Vingegaard throwing out doping insinuations for seemingly no reason in pre-season interviews is hilarious, things are really heating up.

Can they still use other stuff? I'm worried.

Yeah imagine if they get cold feet and suddenly start trundling up climbs at 5 w/kg, lets be honest nobody wants to see that.

 

[YellowSocks]

He even might be the one who will talk once retired. I'm preordering his 2030 Book.

 

[snipeheem]

He even might be the one who will talk once retired. I'm preordering his 2030 Book.

Zero chance

 

[Rob5091]

Vingegaard throwing out doping insinuations for seemingly no reason in pre-season interviews is hilarious, things are really heating up.

Yeah imagine if they get cold feet and suddenly start trundling up climbs at 5 w/kg, lets be honest nobody wants to see that.

Something's up with Vingegaard. New kid, near death experience last year - these things change a man.
I'd prefer to see guys actually sweating and being out of breath after beating old doping fueled climbing records.

 

[AmRacer]

CO2 smoked fish 🤔

 

[Mina.S]

I think Vingegaard needs to hire someone other than his wife to do his PR. First, that interview where his wife says the tour wasn't hard enough for him/ the team wasn't good enough now he is throwing out doping allegations for a product he himself is using?

Even if UAE are using it outside of testing, Vingegaard beat Pogacar twice and was still on a good level this year despite the crash so there is no way to say these things without implicating himself...

 

[Froome]

Can they still use other stuff? I'm worried.

Only worms because is more healthy.

 

[Unchained]

I think Vingegaard needs to hire someone other than his wife to do his PR. First, that interview where his wife says the tour wasn't hard enough for him/ the team wasn't good enough now he is throwing out doping allegations for a product he himself is using?

Even if UAE are using it outside of testing, Vingegaard beat Pogacar twice and was still on a good level this year despite the crash so there is no way to say these things without implicating himself...

Slightly inaccurate, the carbon re- breathing is not against the rules currently, and multiple riders from different teams have social media posts of them using oxygen restriction devices while training and sleeping, so yes oxygen tents or devices to simulate altitude or other devices or techniques to limit oxygen available is again not against the rules.
Her comments about the race route could be interpreted as saying race was not difficult enough, what she was likely trying to say is that grade and length of climbs were less than ideal for his skill set.
There are many, too many reasons not to be transparent, instead react to public, or professional speculation.
There is no reason other stupidity or jealousy for teams, riders, press or others implying that a rider is cheating because they are doing something different or pushing the limits of legality within the rules.. The Vingegaard's certainly have not " implicated " themselves by some form of positive deduction.. Pogacar is winning because he is cheating, therefore if Jonas won before he must have been cheating to achieve it.. Yes elite riders and teams are in an arms race but most of the information available only shows that as always, everyone except for the UCI is thinking outside the box, UCI doesn't do anything other than react, always too late, almost always misplaced and inadequate.
Carbon rebreathing, oxygen deprivation training should have been discovered and dealt with by the UCI, not social media. The UCI causes irreparable damage to bike racing by allowing open secrets.. EPO and other things were known about well in advance to any law enforcement or race relegation..
the UCI, not UAE or Vingegaards wife should be the source of early, pro active accurate information.
UCI clowns read Cycling News and other media outlets and they should be getting out in front, doing PR for the sport when the rumor mill is going full steam ahead about biggest teams, biggest stars and long established cycling records..
UCI should have made statements about what is the colored liquid riders are guzzling after stage finishes.. Not media saying teams are using atom bottles of key tone concoctions.. UCI should be asking what people are drinking, eating, breathing to break records and get faster not general public using Mrs. Vingegaard to do show and tell.
UCI has seen the sport severely, severely damaged from gotcha journalism and they still sit back and do little..
So you have limited budget and resources and you choose to spend time and money on watering down U23_races and excessive celebration and are saving carbon rebreathing for later? Who the F is in charge over there!!!!UCI busy working on seat tilt policy, if Colnago seat post frame configuration is legal, meanwhile something as fundamental, functional as how and what riders are breathing is work in progress.. Clown show!!