Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[shadowrider]

But he also had more time to come back from that injury.

Look, I'm not trying to say that he will be at 100%. I just think that this nonsense about how he can enter the tour at whatever% and than get better by the third week is a bunch of crap. Not in todays cycling when they go full gas every day.

Bad preparation has a tendency to show late into the GT. I believe he will start and if he does his numbers will be good enough for him to think he can win it all. The real problem IMO will be sustaining that form for 3 long weeks with the kind of preparation he had.

There is a risk Vingegaard will fade or have a breakdown. But not automaticaly. Van Aert proved it a few years ago. After appendicitis and surgery, the recovery, starting to ride carefully and finally training during the second half of June, Van Aert went to the Tour without Dauphiné or Tour de Suisse. Performing moderate the first week, and then start riding astonishingly strong. Resulting in three stagewins and great helper work.
So, everything is possible. Being destroyed by Pogacar, maybe even Roglic and others. But equally hurt the weakening Pogacar (because of his Girofatigue) during the last week.

 

[Rob5091]

Cyrille Guimard gives his 2 cents worth on Vingegaard & Visma -
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...-a-espana-instead-for-recovering-visma-leader

"To be honest, and even if we don't have all the facts, I don't see how he could play a leading role in the Tour de France."

"You can't get back to the top level in a month and a half, there's no such thing," Guimard concludes his assessment. "Overall, the team is in great difficulty, but that's not down to them, it's down to events. There are years when it happens like that. We just have to sit tight and wait."

Original article in French at
https://www.cyclismactu.net/news-td...91.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

[Froome]

There is a risk Vingegaard will fade or have a breakdown. But not automaticaly. Van Aert proved it a few years ago. After appendicitis and surgery, the recovery, starting to ride carefully and finally training during the second half of June, Van Aert went to the Tour without Dauphiné or Tour de Suisse. Performing moderate the first week, and then start riding astonishingly strong. Resulting in three stagewins and great helper work.
So, everything is possible. Being destroyed by Pogacar, maybe even Roglic and others. But equally hurt the weakening Pogacar (because of his Girofatigue) during the last week.

Well, according to the coach of Visma if Vingegaard starts the Tour, he will not fade during the 3 weeks.

I believe if Visma let him start the Tour, that's because he will be in good shape. If not, he will not go the Tour.

 

[CyclistAbi]

From what I've read and reading between the lines, it seems the crash and recovery have been a strain on the family. Vingegaard's family are like a safety valve from his "autistic spectrum" type behaviour. It would be unusual if there were not problems (just think of Pogacar and his wanting to leave the Tour when Urska was in hospital). These are human beings after all and not cycling automatons.

Could be but this IMHO wouldn't explain on why forcing Tour and not doing Vuelta would make that much sense.

Well, according to the coach of Visma if Vingegaard starts the Tour, he will not fade during the 3 weeks.

I believe if Visma let him start the Tour, that's because he will be in good shape. If not, he will not go the Tour.

Based on all that was said, especially that Vuelta is not an option, they will likely force the Tour participation and when it backfires nobody to take responsibility for it. Besides obviously Jonas that won't be able to avoid the scrutiny and will be affected the most. But OK, it's life. In such case i do believe Giro to be a possibility, for the 2025 season. Giro did wonders in regards to Rogla and Pogi. Jonas could be next in line, then Remco? We'll see.

 

[AmRacer]

Could be but this IMHO wouldn't explain on why forcing Tour and not doing Vuelta would make that much sense.



Based on all that was said, especially that Vuelta is not an option, they will likely force the Tour participation and when it backfires nobody to take responsibility for it. Besides obviously Jonas that won't be able to avoid the scrutiny and will be affected the most. But OK, it's life. In such case i do believe Giro to be a possibility, for the 2025 season. Giro did wonders in regards to Rogla and Pogi. Jonas could be next in line, then Remco? We'll see.

Remco has tried the Giro twice already.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Remco has tried the Giro twice already.

Yeah, but as main goal, not after being sidetracked and for its healing powers.

 

[CyclistAbi]

If Jonas does participates, then Pogi likely to go in full revenge mode at Galibier, Rogla profiting from it the most. In my opinion Rogla could benefit from a hard first week, so fingers crossed i guess. Although said that i would prefer to see Rogla beating healthy and in form Jonas at Vuelta. So to tackle Pogi at the Tour and Jonas at Vuelta.

I know, you can't have everything.

 

[YavorD]

Could be but this IMHO wouldn't explain on why forcing Tour and not doing Vuelta would make that much sense.



Based on all that was said, especially that Vuelta is not an option, they will likely force the Tour participation and when it backfires nobody to take responsibility for it. Besides obviously Jonas that won't be able to avoid the scrutiny and will be affected the most. But OK, it's life. In such case i do believe Giro to be a possibility, for the 2025 season. Giro did wonders in regards to Rogla and Pogi. Jonas could be next in line, then Remco? We'll see.

If he doesn't do any GT this year, I don't think he'll force it to try the double next year.
He will most probably go to the Tour in order to claim back his title and got to the Vuelta.

Then he'll try the Giro in 2026

 

[CyclistAbi]

If he doesn't do any GT this year, I don't think he'll force it to try the double next year.
He will most probably go to the Tour in order to claim back his title and got to the Vuelta.

Then he'll try the Giro in 2026

I don't believe he won't do a GT in 2024 season. So if they ruled Vuelta out, that leaves the Tour, on where he will likely suffer. That likely pushing him to compete at Giro 2025. We'll see.

 

[Rob5091]

So Matxin gets into the mind games too -
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...-matxin-laughs-off-vismas-talk-of-5050-chance
"No, I am sure Jonas will be at the start of the Tour. In top form. And even if he is only 95 per cent ready at the start, that doesn't say much. Jonas is the type that grows at the Tour.

but ..."The level in cycling is so high that anyone who cannot finish his preparation one hundred per cent pays a price," Matxin recalls. "Then Tadej was not in perfect form. He is going to be now."

 

[Peyroteo94]

So Matxin gets into the mind games too -
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...-matxin-laughs-off-vismas-talk-of-5050-chance
"No, I am sure Jonas will be at the start of the Tour. In top form. And even if he is only 95 per cent ready at the start, that doesn't say much. Jonas is the type that grows at the Tour.

but ..."The level in cycling is so high that anyone who cannot finish his preparation one hundred per cent pays a price," Matxin recalls. "Then Tadej was not in perfect form. He is going to be now."

It is all about Jonas. For them, Roglic doesn't even exist. This is how confident they are in Pogacar, only peak Jonas can avoid Giro-Tour double.

 

[CyclistAbi]

It is all about Jonas. For them, Roglic doesn't even exist. This is how confident they are in Pogacar, only peak Jonas can avoid Giro-Tour double.

They indeed both seem to be preoccupied with each other. A day doesn't go by on where Visma doesn't say something in the lines of Jonas won't fade in third week, like Pogi did. Or UAE saying Jonas will be 100% and we look forward to the fights, similar to last year. Same stuff on the forums, social media, bookies ... Rogla likely rather pleased with the whole situation, training hard.

 

[shadowrider]

Well, according to the coach of Visma if Vingegaard starts the Tour, he will not fade during the 3 weeks.

I believe if Visma let him start the Tour, that's because he will be in good shape. If not, he will not go the Tour.

Well, even the coach of Vingegaard is not a sorcerer. The coach of Pogacar was thinking the same two years ago. The rest is history. I'm convinced the team will allow Vingegaard to participate. Not at his top, but close. But anyway declare that Vingegaard will not fade during during the 3 weeks is a kind of arrogant. Mainly intended to mislead the opponents. Hoping to prevent attacks from the early start of the Tour. But I'm sure that Pogacar doesn't believe any of that. He's gonna attack, to start with day one. The second time on the Galibier. By than, we will know who is bluffing.

 

[YavorD]

Well, even the coach of Vingegaard is not a sorcerer. The coach of Pogacar was thinking the same two years ago. The rest is history. I'm convinced the team will allow Vingegaard to participate. Not at his top, but close. But anyway declare that Vingegaard will not fade during during the 3 weeks is a kind of arrogant. Mainly intended to mislead the opponents. Hoping to prevent attacks from the early start of the Tour. But I'm sure that Pogacar doesn't believe any of that. He's gonna attack, to start with day one. The second time on the Galibier. By than, we will know who is bluffing.

That makes sense but in order to do that, they have to confirm him for TdF sooner rather than later. The later they confirm him the more reasons they give the other teams to attack early.
Not that they will wait otherwise but Visma and Vingegaard doesn't gain anything from "he's not sure yet" unless they plan to counter attack on Galibier.

 

[Froome]

Well, even the coach of Vingegaard is not a sorcerer. The coach of Pogacar was thinking the same two years ago. The rest is history. I'm convinced the team will allow Vingegaard to participate. Not at his top, but close. But anyway declare that Vingegaard will not fade during during the 3 weeks is a kind of arrogant. Mainly intended to mislead the opponents. Hoping to prevent attacks from the early start of the Tour. But I'm sure that Pogacar doesn't believe any of that. He's gonna attack, to start with day one. The second time on the Galibier. By than, we will know who is bluffing.

'It’s Possible He Will Try the Giro-Tour Double in the Future’: Will Jonas Vingegaard Take on Same Lofty Goal as Tadej Pogačar?

Vingegaard's coach weighs in on Tour de France 2024 prospects, his mental and physical attributes and more.

velo.outsideonline.com

Better show you the article to see the context of what he said. I don't think he wanted to sound arrogant.

 

[shadowrider]

That makes sense but in order to do that, they have to confirm him for TdF sooner rather than later. The later they confirm him the more reasons they give the other teams to attack early.
Not that they will wait otherwise but Visma and Vingegaard doesn't gain anything from "he's not sure yet" unless they plan to counter attack on Galibier.

The later they confirm him the more reasons they give the other teams to attack early. A good point. But I think they will confirm it in one or two days.

 

[Froome]

That makes sense but in order to do that, they have to confirm him for TdF sooner rather than later. The later they confirm him the more reasons they give the other teams to attack early.
Not that they will wait otherwise but Visma and Vingegaard doesn't gain anything from "he's not sure yet" unless they plan to counter attack on Galibier.

What if they want that? It is also a possibility.

 

[YavorD]

What if they want that? It is also a possibility.

They may want it if they plan to counter attack. How likely is that, everyone can decide for himself. But even you seem to think he'll start undercooked and get better throughout the race.

If they plan to defence early in the race they should claim he's very strong.

 

[Froome]

They may want it if they plan to counter attack. How likely is that, everyone can decide for himself. But even you seem to think he'll start undercooked and get better throughout the race.

If they plan to defence early in the race they should claim he's very strong.

That's my take on what will happen, but in reality only Visma knows how he is at the moment and in what kind of shape he will be in the Tour.

 

[Froome]

If Jonas does participates, then Pogi likely to go in full revenge mode at Galibier, Rogla profiting from it the most. In my opinion Rogla could benefit from a hard first week, so fingers crossed i guess. Although said that i would prefer to see Rogla beating healthy and in form Jonas at Vuelta. So to tackle Pogi at the Tour and Jonas at Vuelta.

I know, you can't have everything.

Well, Roglic can takle on Pogacar and Vingegaard at the same time in the Tour.

 

[CyclistAbi]

That's my take on what will happen, but in reality only Visma knows how he is at the moment and in what kind of shape he will be in the Tour.

If Jonas won't have it in week one, then in my opinion he won't recover from that, going deeper into the race.

 

[Rob5091]

It is interesting that there's not a peep about Roglic from UAE. If Bora can keep Roglic on Pogacar's wheel for the first week then it'll be fun watching.

 

[Froome]

It is interesting that there's not a peep about Roglic from UAE. If Bora can keep Roglic on Pogacar's wheel for the first week then it'll be fun watching.

Emirates knows very well that Pogacar can beat Roglic in normal conditions, that's why they are not worried with him or Remco.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Emirates knows very well that Pogacar can beat Roglic in normal conditions, that's why they are not worried with him ...

You do realise that this is the exact same scenario from the Tour 2020, and we all know on how that ended.

 

[Froome]

You do realise that this is the exact same scenario from the Tour 2020, and we all know on how that ended.

Pogacar was better than Roglic, that's why he won in 2020.