Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[ppanther92]

Most likely this *** TT is an isolated incident. You don't follow yesterday if you're truly that ass.

Tend to agree but also people (even on here) drew way too much conclusions from the Dauphine ITT.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Most likely this *** TT is an isolated incident. You don't follow yesterday if you're truly that ass.

Or Vingegaard did actually empty the tank trying to keep up and over did it, maybe thinking Pogacar will have a poor TT like in the CdD.

Otherwise it was a shocking poor performance today from the TT form he’s shown previously this year. If his climbing shape hasn’t drastically improved, the Tour isn’t going to be as close as we thought/hoped.

 

[Miss Violet Smith]

I saw something completely different. Tadej hit the hill summit and saw how close MVP and company were. Not good odds and he slowed down to be in good position for the descent. Better to be in control and not get nuked by the chasers at the finish.

In Il Lombardia 2023, he waited for Vlasov on Passo di Ganda; when asked about it afterwards he looked surprised and said something along the lines of wanting to go to the top with Vlasov and work together.

Tactics, not weakness.

 

[HappyCycling]

Poor time trial but at one point in '22 he was 30 secs down on Pogi in the GC

It could be his prep has focused on high mountains with the effect of diminishing his effectiveness in flat TTs

Regarding your second statement, there is almost nothing to suggest he's focusing on his climbing. If anything, his prep has been geared towards explosiveness, which is frankly bizarre given the elevation in weeks two and three.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Regarding your second statement, there is almost nothing to suggest he's focusing on his climbing. If anything, his prep has been geared towards explosiveness, which is frankly bizarre given the elevation in weeks two and three.

Exactly, no idea what they are playing at if it's true. The equation is the same as it was 100 years ago, watts per kilogram, as funny as it was seeing them turn this guy into some weird Peter Sagan knockoff him doing a top 1 minute demonstration isn't going to look too clever when he gets dropped on the first HC Col. Been a bizarre season all round for this guy, the racing and the comms, what are Visma waiting for?

 

[Rackham]

Worst Vinge performance in the TdF since 2021, certainly relative the rest of the field.

Where's his July peak gone? It's not normal for him to be beaten by Jorgenson here. It's not an ITT setup issue either considering Affini's performance.

 

[ppanther92]

Or Vingegaard did actually empty the tank trying to keep up and over did it, maybe thinking Pogacar will have a poor TT like in the CdD.

And I also tend to agree on that. The hyperaggressive way of racing on flat stages and in crosswinds should logically hurt a rider like Vingegaard more (the speed of the Tour in general is a reason why it seems that here more rounded riders tend to perform better than pure climbers compared to other GTs).

I get that the Visma tactic is to tire out Pogacar but maybe they should rather try this uphill (not saying its possible but its Vingegaards more natural strength).

And in some sense funny that there have been comments by Visma in the past that Pogacar is wasting energy with his style.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Worst Vinge performance in the TdF since 2021, certainly relative the rest of the field.

Where's his July peak gone? It's not normal for him to be beaten by Jorgenson here. It's not an ITT setup issue either considering Affini's performance.

He & Grischa say he simply didn't have legs and was losing time gradually throughout the whole TT. Definitely a very poor performance by his standards.

Maybe it was only a day-off, we will see. He looked very good until yesterday. But the fight for Tour victory definitely got more complicated.

 

[Red Rick]

Worst Vinge performance in the TdF since 2021, certainly relative the rest of the field.

Where's his July peak gone? It's not normal for him to be beaten by Jorgenson here. It's not an ITT setup issue either considering Affini's performance.

His early 2024 TTs weren't much better.

 

[SHAD0W93]

And I also tend to agree on that. The hyperaggressive way of racing on flat stages and in crosswinds should logically hurt a rider like Vingegaard more (the speed of the Tour in general is a reason why it seems that here more rounded riders tend to perform better than pure climbers compared to other GTs).

I get that the Visma tactic is to tire out Pogacar but maybe they should rather try this uphill (not saying its possible but its Vingegaards more natural strength).

And in some sense funny that there have been comments by Visma in the past that Pogacar is wasting energy with his style.

They’re definitely hoping for a repeat of 2023 and in that race Vingegaard was always at the very front, even on flat stages until the final 2-3 kms. He’d need a huge recovery boost like he got from his rest on the second rest day since he looked absolutely exhausted after stage 15.

 

[theyoungest]

And I also tend to agree on that. The hyperaggressive way of racing on flat stages and in crosswinds should logically hurt a rider like Vingegaard more (the speed of the Tour in general is a reason why it seems that here more rounded riders tend to perform better than pure climbers compared to other GTs).

I get that the Visma tactic is to tire out Pogacar but maybe they should rather try this uphill (not saying its possible but its Vingegaards more natural strength).

And in some sense funny that there have been comments by Visma in the past that Pogacar is wasting energy with his style.

Come on, it's day 5. Vingegaard hasn't tired himself out. He's just not good enough. Like in the Dauphiné the superficial cycling media were reporting that "oh he looks so confident, oh he smiles in interviews, this is a different Vingegaard" but all of that doesn't matter. It's on the road where it's decided.

A long flat TT on day 5 is certainly not ideal for him, the same course in week 3 would already have been better, but it's clear that we don't have a Vingegaard capable of challenging Pogacar in any way. He's not suddenly going to beat Pogacar on the climbs, no way. It will be just the same like Dauphiné.

 

[Kedjan]

It was a flat stage and Vinge is a tiny guy. Vinge himself said it suited Remco and Pog better, and that he more looked forward to the mountain-tt. Maybe we hoped too much because we wanted him to be close to Pog so we could hope for a close GC battle.

Sure, he still underperformed, but maybe being within a minute to Remco was never that realistic on such a course.

Hope Vinge and the team don't magnify the setback too much.
Look forward and keep believing. Sure it's an uphill battle, but *** can happen and then he must be ready to strike.

 

[fenns]

Regarding your second statement, there is almost nothing to suggest he's focusing on his climbing. If anything, his prep has been geared towards explosiveness, which is frankly bizarre given the elevation in weeks two and three.

How do we know? Are we supposed to believe what Jumbo Visma tell us? Prior to TDF 24 they were saying his participation was in doubt - then he goes and throws in the best 2nd in the event's history.

 

[theyoungest]

It was a flat stage and Vinge is a tiny guy. Vinge himself said it suited Remco and Pog better, and that he more looked forward to the mountain-tt. Maybe we hoped too much because we wanted him to be close to Pog so we could hope for a close GC battle.

Sure, he still underperformed, but maybe being within a minute to Remco was never that realistic on such a course.

Hope Vinge and the team don't magnify the setback too much.
Look forward and keep believing. Sure it's an uphill battle, but *** can happen and then he must be ready to strike.

He's even slower than Roglic, who isn't exactly flying right now. It's just a bad performance. Yes, Vingegaard is small, and no, this course is far from ideal for him, but he should be at least half a minute closer.

Of course anything can happen, Pogacar can get struck by lightning, but that goes for everyone including Vingegaard himself.

 

[theyoungest]

How do we know? Are we supposed to believe what Jumbo Visma tell us? Prior to TDF 24 they were saying his participation was in doubt - then he goes and throws in the best 2nd in the event's history.

What do you mean, the best 2nd... his performance last year has been blown to extraterrestrial proportions by Pogi fans to illustrate how good Pogi actually was. From even looking at the guy you could see he wasn't at his very best. He had lost too much muscle mass.

I think the first time he finished runner up he actually had a better level than last year.

 

[Rackham]

I agree with @theyoungest

It's about context. It's never good when a rider is so soundly beaten by his main rival in a Tour de France, including by other riders he should be ahead of here.

It's just not something that can be handwaved. 1 minute is... big. Too big. And the visual impression was bad as well. He was suffering out there with a massive pain face beneath his helmet.

 

[Kedjan]

Vinge himself, legs were not good:

"I just didn't have the legs. I'm losing a bit of time, but my legs didn't feel good," Vingegaard admitted in a post-race interview. "So the result reflects the feeling in my legs. I was fighting my legs and my bike. I was surprised by my legs, but sometimes that's part of cycling."

Tries to keep up the morale:

"Luckily, the Tour is still long. I still believe in myself and my plan; I still believe we can win," he assured however. "Look, the difference is around a minute now. That seems like a lot at first glance, but we know from recent years that the Tour has been won with more than that.”

https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling/i-still-believe-in-myself-and-my-plan-rocky-time-trial-shakes-jonas-vingegaard-but-doesnt-take-him-out

 

[YavorD]

What do you mean, the best 2nd... his performance last year has been blown to extraterrestrial proportions by Pogi fans to illustrate how good Pogi actually was. From even looking at the guy you could see he wasn't at his very best. He had lost too much muscle mass.

I think the first time he finished runner up he actually had a better level than last year.

But Pogacar was amazingly good last year throughout the season.
On the contrary, it was Vingegaard fans who tried to diminish his performances.

Let's not forget that a lot of people claimed last year that "if Vingegaard survives the first 2 weeks within 2 minutes of Pogacar, he will destroy him in the high mountains".
And Vingegaard was considered favourite after stage 11.

 

[kamaveli]

It is now pretty obvious that he burned too many matches in the first stages when Visma was keen to give bonus seconds to Pogacar. He'll probably recover for tomorrow but Visma needs to rethink their tactics.

 

[Gargamel35]

Visma rode this TdF like they are Classics specialists against UAE hillybillies. I guess they forgot UAEs best guy is one of best Classics riders in the world.

 

[Tim Cahill]

If he's cooked this badly after 4 days of racing, 2 moderate effort stages, 1 sleepy flat stage and a 1 minute all out effort on a hill then he was never winning this race anyway.

 

[GroupDK]

This was never a TT that would be in Vingegaard's favor as the lightest of the trio... a flat windy 33km stage
Also reckon Pogacar highlighted that after the race, while also admitting that he didn't expect such a big gain on Vingegaard on this stage.
Ain't Jonas like 59.5kg 1.74cm, and Pogacar around 66kg 176cm, and Remco 62kg 171cm when this tour started.(or atleats in that ballpark)

It's Remco that really stands out, being small and light, and still being able to consistently deliver those wattages on a flat windy stage like this.
Remarkable rider..

 

[Lorzenz08]

This is only the 5th stage and it was all flat, he will get better next week in the mountains

 

[Kedjan]

Visma rode this TdF like they are Classics specialists against UAE hillybillies. I guess they forgot UAEs best guy is one of best Classics riders in the world.

There is something to this I think. I actually think Visma are a bit lost when trying to figuring out a strategy to beat Pog. A couple of years back Pog had some tiny weaknesses (and a weaker team). But now, I don't see any. He is the best classics rider, best climber, one of the best tt-riders and has a great kick. His consistency at a superhigh level is spooky, never any bad days anymore. Some years ago we thought the Giro-Tour double was impossible, Pog won it with ease last year.

Sure, Visma probably know what they are doing, but deep down I'm sure they fear it won't be enough. If Vinge manages to be within 3 minutes to Pog that's almost a win I would say...

 

[Netserk]

He says today surprised him and that he pushed fewer Watts than in Dauphiné with the same setup.