Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[jmdirt]

Congrats JV!

 

[Nick2413]

So what’s the official takeaway? Was he stronger than expected? Strong but showed signs of being human? Didn’t show enough to know?

 

[Big Doopie]

So what’s the official takeaway? Was he stronger than expected? Strong but showed signs of being human? Didn’t show enough to know?

the official takeaway...?

looks like froome.

 

[Summoned]

the official takeaway...?

looks like froome.

That seems the nearest comparison to me.

 

[Boehmand]

the official takeaway...?

looks like froome.

No, Vingegaard does not look like a lopsided spider trying to pedal a bike...

 

[IndianCyclist]

the official takeaway...?

looks like froome.

But doesnt do stem staring. So is not the reincarnation of Froome.

 

[Berniece]

the official takeaway...?

looks like froome.

I was thinking the same. I also have a feeling he'll win as easily as Froome did sometimes at the Tour. Really hope Pogacar will be in proper shape, otherwise it's going to be a boring Tour for the GC

 

[bNator]

I think there's a certain pressure JV feels that just wasn't there last year. It looks to me like he wants to prove/establish himself as a more persistent force in the peloton which of course affects his pre-Tour results this year.

I don't know what to expect of their duel with Pog. I rate their chances similar and the outcome may be determined by circumstance. If Pog is 100%, it will be hard to drop him anywhere. On the other hand, if Jonas has a bad day, Pog will punish it and win the Tour. And the other way around...

What I do find silly is that yield on Vinge's TDF victory is 5%. Similar to that of US bonds

Edit: And I like the fact people seem to be totally writing off Pog. If he wins, then something which shouldn't come as a surprise, will shock everyone ...

 

[Cassirer]

Edit: And I like the fact people seem to be totally writing off Pog. If he wins, then something which shouldn't come as a surprise, will shock everyone ...

Is any sane one doing that, though? Some are more concerned than others regarding the wirst, but consensus seems to be that if it doesn't hurt too much, it will be a hard fight where some favor the one, some the other. Any "pog/vinge will crush vinge/pog easily"-take is trolling

 

[CyclistAbi]

Congratulations on winning Critérium du Dauphiné.

The form seems right in regards to the Tour. Rather keen on attacking. We'll see if it will be enough to beat Pogi or not.

 

[Gigs_98]

Vingegaard was 3.8 % faster than Yates on Croix de Fer with his time of 17'53'' (which is roughly equivalent to winning on Alpe d'Huez by 1'30''). It was a fast ascent, brutally so.

He has Tour winning legs already.

Tbf, Vingegaard climbing Alpe d'Huez 1:30 faster than Yates wouldn't really be very shocking. And I think that's really his entire Dauphine performance in a nutshell. Every time I saw the results I thought "oh god, he is scarily good" but then every time I thought about what I expected and kinda realized, considering he had no truly great opponent that gap is probably about as big as one should have predicted.

Like yeah, Vingegaard can pretty much drop climbers like Yates at will. I'm not shocked about that. The question never was, can he comfortably beat his opposition at the Dauphine. It has always been, can he beat a (hopefully) fully recovered Pogacar, and for that question this race didn't shift my opinion by much.

 

[Boehmand]

Edit: And I like the fact people seem to be totally writing off Pog. If he wins, then something which shouldn't come as a surprise, will shock everyone ...

I don't think anyone is seriously writing Pogacar off.

I had him as a slight favourite prior to his crash, because the route suits him better than Vingegaard this year - provided he had learned his lesson and didn't burn too many matches week 1.

Now it's even money in my book.

Also I just realised today, if Adam Yates manages to stay in contention the first 10 days or so, UAE is the team this year with a lieutenant that Vingegaard may feel compelled to cover.

Combined with Pogacar not having a perfect preparation and needing to ride himself into shape, we may see a complete tactical reversal this year between Jumbo and UAE.

 

[theyoungest]

Tbf, Vingegaard climbing Alpe d'Huez 1:30 faster than Yates wouldn't really be very shocking. And I think that's really his entire Dauphine performance in a nutshell. Every time I saw the results I thought "oh god, he is scarily good" but then every time I thought about what I expected and kinda realized, considering he had no truly great opponent that gap is probably about as big as one should have predicted.

Like yeah, Vingegaard can pretty much drop climbers like Yates at will. I'm not shocked about that. The question never was, can he comfortably beat his opposition at the Dauphine. It has always been, can he beat a (hopefully) fully recovered Pogacar, and for that question this race didn't shift my opinion by much.

Adam Yates in a one week stage race is pretty serious opposition. Evenepoel can attest to that. On his day, he's really good on the longer climbs. Just never in a grand tour, at least not to seriously challenge for the win.

 

[will-10]

If this guy stays upright we will definitely have a show, just not sure we'll have much of a battle. In Pog we trust

 

[ZamlinusYoutubeious]

I think there's a certain pressure JV feels that just wasn't there last year. It looks to me like he wants to prove/establish himself as a more persistent force in the peloton which of course affects his pre-Tour results this year.

I don't know what to expect of their duel with Pog. I rate their chances similar and the outcome may be determined by circumstance. If Pog is 100%, it will be hard to drop him anywhere. On the other hand, if Jonas has a bad day, Pog will punish it and win the Tour. And the other way around...

What I do find silly is that yield on Vinge's TDF victory is 5%. Similar to that of US bonds

Edit: And I like the fact people seem to be totally writing off Pog. If he wins, then something which shouldn't come as a surprise, will shock everyone ...

This is baffling for me. An injury free Pog will beat Vinge.

 

[Extinction]

And Guus Hiddink thinks Pog will win the Tour, who he reckons gives anyone an inferiority complex.

 

[bNator]

And Guus Hiddink thinks Pog will win the Tour, who he reckons gives anyone an inferiority complex.

I first thought you were being sarcastic. But went on to search for it and he really says that

Is any sane one doing that, though? Some are more concerned than others regarding the wirst, but consensus seems to be that if it doesn't hurt too much, it will be a hard fight where some favor the one, some the other. Any "pog/vinge will crush vinge/pog easily"-take is trolling

Noone sane, I will agree with that

 

[theyoungest]

This is baffling for me. An injury free Pog will beat Vinge.

What is baffling is that for a lot of people the Tour 2022 seems to be an anomaly where the almighty Pogacar made a little mistake and got beaten by Vingegaard and Jumbo purely on tactical terms. Ventoux 2021? Just a glitch. Col de la Loze 2020? Don't think about it. But that one super cold and rainy stage in 2021 where Pogi won the race is not an anomaly. Nor is that one time trial in 2020. And you're basically already setting up the reason for another anomaly in 2023: he's injured.

It's not ideal of course, but actually Vingegaard hasn't had an ideal preparation in the last two years either and he came out swinging. A bit of forced rest isn't always a bad thing, certainly with a spring like Pogacar has done.

 

[fox]

What is baffling is that for a lot of people the Tour 2022 seems to be an anomaly where the almighty Pogacar made a little mistake and got beaten by Vingegaard and Jumbo purely on tactical terms. Ventoux 2021? Just a glitch. Col de la Loze 2020? Don't think about it. But that one super cold and rainy stage in 2021 where Pogi won the race is not an anomaly. Nor is that one time trial in 2020. And you're basically already setting up the reason for another anomaly in 2023: he's injured.

It's not ideal of course, but actually Vingegaard hasn't had an ideal preparation in the last two years either and he came out swinging. A bit of forced rest isn't always a bad thing, certainly with a spring like Pogacar has done.

I don't get it either. Vingegaard is better on the long climbs and he is also a better time trialist. Furthermore, Pogacar had a less than ideal preparation. So Vingegaard is the only big favorite this year.

 

[Cookster15]

Bookies have Vingegaard as clear favorite which makes sense. I am now wondering how Vingo will carry the pressure of being favorite? Didn't he struggle with the fame after winning last year?

 

[Rackham]

And Guus Hiddink thinks Pog will win the Tour, who he reckons gives anyone an inferiority complex.

I read the article. Hiddink is a fan of Rogla as well. Good man.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I don't get it either. Vingegaard is better on the long climbs and he is also a better time trialist. Furthermore, Pogacar had a less than ideal preparation. So Vingegaard is the only big favorite this year.

Is he? Pog has beaten Vingegaard 5 times to Vinge’s 3. One of which Pog wasn’t riding hard because he had almost a 6 min lead.

 

[Gigs_98]

Is he? Pog has beaten Vingegaard 5 times to Vinge’s 3. One of which Pog wasn’t riding hard because he had almost a 6 min lead.

I agree there isn't much between the two in TT's. But I really disagree with your argument. The whole "Vingegaard only beat Pogacar because Pogacar didn't even try" narrative was somewhat believable in 2021, even though most of us just accepted it way too easily back then too. But with our knowledge from 2022 when Vingegaard beat Pogacar outright over 3 weeks, why are we still supposed to think Vingegaard wasn't stronger in 2021 already.

Why should I still think Pogacar just let Vingegaard go on the Ventoux because he knew he could catch him on the descent? Why should I still think Pogacar could have dropped everyone in the Pyrenees and just didn't because he knew he would win the sprint? And why should I believe Pogacar only lost time in the TT because he had way more time in hand anyway? Whether you like it or not, over the 2nd and 3rd week of the 2021 Tour Vingegaard gained time on Pogacar and if people still don't think that painted a representative picture of their level, they are mostly fooling themselves.

 

[Extinction]

I agree there isn't much between the two in TT's. But I really disagree with your argument. The whole "Vingegaard only beat Pogacar because Pogacar didn't even try" narrative was somewhat believable in 2021, even though most of us just accepted it way too easily back then too. But with our knowledge from 2022 when Vingegaard beat Pogacar outright over 3 weeks, why are we still supposed to think Vingegaard wasn't stronger in 2021 already.

Why should I still think Pogacar just let Vingegaard go on the Ventoux because he knew he could catch him on the descent? Why should I still think Pogacar could have dropped everyone in the Pyrenees and just didn't because he knew he would win the sprint? And why should I believe Pogacar only lost time in the TT because he had way more time in hand anyway? Whether you like it or not, over the 2nd and 3rd week of the 2021 Tour Vingegaard gained time on Pogacar and if people still don't think that painted a representative picture of their level, they are mostly fooling themselves.

Well I guess between Guus Hiddink's opinion and your inquiries we'll find out soon enough who is king.

 

[BR2]

Bookies have Vingegaard as clear favorite which makes sense. I am now wondering how Vingo will carry the pressure of being favorite? Didn't he struggle with the fame after winning last year?

I don't think pressure is the problem, but the attention and media everywhere.