Jonathan Tiernan-Locke written to by UCI, asked to explain blood values

[kingsouth]

It was 2013 kit. It is not unusual for pros to sell off excess kit (and Sky riders get a lot of kit). They normally sell via local bike shop or club. In his current situation, this might not have been appropriate.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Doubt he would be selling his kit for a few quid if he was going to be acquited, why would he need to do that if he was still going to be recieving his big Sky salary?

riders sell off all their old stuff, usually via friends.

 

[Benotti69]

riders sell off all their old stuff, usually via friends.

I would've thought that riders would hand stuff to former amateur clubs to auction to raise funds?

But then that's just me. Selling stuff you get for free seems greedy.

 

[SundayRider]

I would've thought that riders would hand stuff to former amateur clubs to auction to raise funds?

But then that's just me. Selling stuff you get for free seems greedy.

Especially when you are earning a reported £400K per annum.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I would've thought that riders would hand stuff to former amateur clubs to auction to raise funds?

But then that's just me. Selling stuff you get for free seems greedy.

riders from colombia do this, they send to their old clubs and towns, but not from rich countries

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Love the transparency of Team Sky as they keep the cycling fans up to date with what's going on.

 

[BYOP88]

Wow. Original. Do share more of your unique witticisms.

Thanks Jimmy!!! It means alot coming from you!!!

I know what I wrote was 'stupid' but no worse than what has been written by Sky fans defending British riders/Sky.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Especially when you are earning a reported £400K per annum.

That would depend on when does his pay stop?

I am always reluctant to go on a figure from the Daily Fail, but for this lets assume its 400k pa, if he is paid until suspended he made 300k (Sept 13).

Regardless, if he puts up a defence lawyers & scientists won't be long burning through that.

Love the transparency of Team Sky as they keep the cycling fans up to date with what's going on.

A million per cent - it almost seems like JTL is suspended and his case is pending.

Well if so - I don't see why there is not a daily update saying "JTL is suspended and his case is pending".
The cycling fans need to know this.

 

[oldcrank]

riders from colombia do this, they send to their old clubs and towns, but not from rich countries

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2013/11/chris_froome_kenya_20131.jpg

 

[gooner]

Jonathan Tiernan-Locke’s doping case is likely to be heard within a month, according to UK Anti-Doping chief executive Andy Parkinson.

Speaking at the Tackling Doping in Sport conference at Wembley on Wednesday , Parkinson said that was now close to being heard. “Imminently,” Parkinson said when asked. “Months, a month or so. Clearly the issue with that case is that it was in the public domain earlier than was ideal, and earlier than we put out a notice of charge.

“The process has seemed longer than it has been because we only received the notification after Christmas.

“Biological passport cases are difficult; difficult to run and you need a lot of expert witnesses. So we’re coordinating all that.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...se-is-imminent-says-UK-Anti-Doping-chief.html

 

[Catwhoorg]

Thanks for that Gooner.

 

[Col Okey]

Could JTL's poor 2013 not be explained by the reason he himself gave where he said SKY's heavy training workload didn't suit him and left him feeling run down and too tired when it came time to race.
SKY's coach Shaun Stephens said this in Aug 2013 "It's just difficult that we can't string three or four weeks of consistent training together before he either gets sick or gets saddle soreseek or that sort of thing."
Dope or no dope it seems Sky have only one way of training and maybe Tiernan-Locke would have performed better if had been allowed to train in the way that had worked well for him in 2012

 

[gillan1969]

Could JTL's poor 2013 not be explained by the reason he himself gave where he said SKY's heavy training workload didn't suit him and left him feeling run down and too tired when it came time to race.
SKY's coach Shaun Stephens said this in Aug 2013 "It's just difficult that we can't string three or four weeks of consistent training together before he either gets sick or gets saddle soreseek or that sort of thing."
Dope or no dope it seems Sky have only one way of training and maybe Tiernan-Locke would have performed better if had been allowed to train in the way that had worked well for him in 2012

it could, if sky didn't sell themselves as the team of marginal gains where no stone is left unturned to exact peak performance from their athletes...

however, in order to explain the dodginess we now we get told that...they don't get references for the riders or backroom staff, they never test the physiological abilities of their riders and they give everyone the same training program....

 

[DirtyWorks]

...Sky have only one way of training and maybe Tiernan-Locke would have performed better if had been allowed to train in the way that had worked well for him in 2012

I've heard this complaint before on one of the British broadcasts. It could be true, but it's impossible to know without some blood values. Since this is Pro cycling, it would be unlikely.

As a general comment, once these cases pass to the NADO, the process goes silent until there is some kind of very structured formal announcement. There are some rare cases where the athlete chooses for the entire process to be open, but that's the exception, not the rule.

I am critical of Sky many ways, but their lack of information on JTL's case at this point is not one of them. And yes, he'll burn through his WT salary in no time trying a vigorous defense.

 

[Col Okey]

it could, if sky didn't sell themselves as the team of marginal gains where no stone is left unturned to exact peak performance from their athletes...

however, in order to explain the dodginess we now we get told that...they don't get references for the riders or backroom staff, they never test the physiological abilities of their riders and they give everyone the same training program....

But what I don't understand is the same people tying themselves in knots defending other SKY riders are saying JTL was good at Endura = doping, sucked at SKY = clean so it's Endura's problem.
Are there other reasons why he could have under- performed at SKY? I know JTL suffered from Epstein-Barr virus early in his career and even gave up cycle racing altogether for a while because of it, can this virus reoccur? Was he simply over trained? ill? Could any off these things affect his BP?
As for the marginal gains no stone left unturned story aren't we supposed to believe Chris Froome rode for 18? months for the most scientific team in the history of the sport whilst riddled with bilharzia?

 

[DirtyWorks]

But what I don't understand is the same people tying themselves in knots defending other SKY riders are saying JTL was good at Endura = doping, sucked at SKY = clean so it's Endura's problem.

The notion that this is Endura's problem was encouraged by the PR geniuses at Sky.

He had a contract with Endura but was spending at least some of his time over a period of many months, at Sky training camps.

 

[HSNHSN]

Are there other reasons why he could have under- performed at SKY? I know JTL suffered from Epstein-Barr virus early in his career and even gave up cycle racing altogether for a while because of it, can this virus reoccur?

Assuming the problems were from infectious mononucleosis (or 'Pfeiffer's disease'), this link seems to answer the question: yes, it is possible, albeit very unlikely. Unless his immune system is compromised for some reason, which sounds rather unlikely in professional athletes, though.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Could JTL's poor 2013 not be explained by the reason he himself gave where he said SKY's heavy training workload didn't suit him and left him feeling run down and too tired when it came time to race.
SKY's coach Shaun Stephens said this in Aug 2013 "It's just difficult that we can't string three or four weeks of consistent training together before he either gets sick or gets saddle soreseek or that sort of thing."
Dope or no dope it seems Sky have only one way of training and maybe Tiernan-Locke would have performed better if had been allowed to train in the way that had worked well for him in 2012

To quote our mate Vebruggen:

No, no, no.

What do Sky do better than anyone else?

* individual coaching for each rider
* track training load via training peaks

You can find both of these salient points in articles written about why Sky kick the crap out of everyone in multi stage races.

A good coach listens to his athlete and vice versa. A good coach does not force someone tired and worn out to train again / hard, but monitors them and gives them recovery rides or days off.

A good coach on a mega million dollar team with the latest gadgest and sponsored goodies from some of the best companies in the business, spending

* 200,000 GBP on sports science and medical and
* 45,000 GBP on research

in 2012 should be getting the best bang for your buck from his or her rider over the course of a season.

 

[Col Okey]

To quote our mate Vebruggen:

No, no, no.

What do Sky do better than anyone else?

* individual coaching for each rider
* track training load via training peaks

You can find both of these salient points in articles written about why Sky kick the crap out of everyone in multi stage races.

A good coach listens to his athlete and vice versa. A good coach does not force someone tired and worn out to train again / hard, but monitors them and gives them recovery rides or days off.

A good coach on a mega million dollar team with the latest gadgest and sponsored goodies from some of the best companies in the business, spending

* 200,000 GBP on sports science and medical and
* 45,000 GBP on research

in 2012 should be getting the best bang for your buck from his or her rider over the course of a season.

Ok so Tiernan-Locke was training with Sky for parts of 2012, at least from Aug/Sept when his form was still good (Tour of Britain, World Champs) then in 2013 his form falls off a cliff and the story goes he must have been doping in 2012 with Endura but gave up when he went to SKY.
So why didn't SKY, with their super sports science and medical resources realise this was the case at some point in 2013?
Again what I am asking is do you think the "suspicious numbers are from 2012 so it's Endura's problem" narrative holds any water I personally think not but that is why I'm here , so that people with more knowledge(that's people like You and Dirtyworks) can set me straight.

 

[proffate]

To quote our mate Vebruggen:

No, no, no.

never, never, never*

 

[The Tsurani]

Well about a month has passed since they said we will have a result on this in about a month. Anyone got any updates on this?
Also if JTL is cleared could he sue for loss of earnings etc.

 

[martinvickers]

Ok so Tiernan-Locke was training with Sky for parts of 2012, at least from Aug/Sept when his form was still good (Tour of Britain, World Champs) then in 2013 his form falls off a cliff and the story goes he must have been doping in 2012 with Endura but gave up when he went to SKY.
So why didn't SKY, with their super sports science and medical resources realise this was the case at some point in 2013?

Why do you assume they didn't? But then, how do they accuse or discipline their own rider without proof? Especially if he's not doping with you, but did in the past and you can't prove it?

Seems to have exercised the sky hivemind enough to try a new protocol which appears to have caught Henao's values.

Again what I am asking is do you think the "suspicious numbers are from 2012 so it's Endura's problem" narrative holds any water I personally think not but that is why I'm here , so that people with more knowledge(that's people like You and Dirtyworks) can set me straight.

The problem is the 2012 numbers are NOT, as far as we know, suspicious...UNTIL compared with the 2013 numbers - it's the change that's suspciious, not the raw numbers themselves - and since they couldn't really have the 2013 numbers in 2012, when they signed him, what else could they have done at the time?

If they had pre-2012 numbers from before his super-year, they may well have gone, Oi! this isn't right - but no such numbers existed, as far as I know.

You're still hitting against the problem of if Sky are responsible for the doping, why is he getting WORSE under them, rather than better?

 

[Benotti69]

The great Sky conundrum, taking talented riders and making them average and taking donkeys and making racehorses....all by clean methodology of course

 

[martinvickers]

The great Sky conundrum, taking talented riders and making them average and taking donkeys and making racehorses....all by clean methodology of course

I've no idea if it's a conundrum or not - but while the latter

taking donkeys and making racehorses

might well merit suspicions, the other

taking talented riders and making them average

may sensibly lead to suspicions of the rider, I can't see how it can at all reasonably lead to suspicions of the team that suffer the drop off in form...it just doesn't hold water. Sorry.

 

[ralphbert]

may sensibly lead to suspicions of the rider, I can't see how it can at all reasonably lead to suspicions of the team that suffer the drop off in form...it just doesn't hold water. Sorry.

Sky is preparing riders in a new way, it greatly assists those who don't respond to traditional "therapy" but can hurt traditional responders if they are forced off blood vectoring to the new system.

It's a long bow I agree but possible.