Jonathan Tiernan-Locke written to by UCI, asked to explain blood values

[Mellow Velo]

Well if "the girls" trained in Tenerife with Sky then maybe you're onto something.

Sadly context is everything here; trained with Sky since March 2012 and turned up with a Kerrison Sky Powermeter.

And please, not "girls", women. It's not 1972.

He raced throughout March for Endura, as I suspect you know well.
So, April not March.

One man's 16YO girl is another's 16YO woman, I suppose.

The powermeter? Tough to argue with that. Real red flag.
Some would say as conclusive as a positive test.

 

[Will Carter]

Somewhere? Like 2 pages ago! With quotes.


http://www.inthegc.com/2012/04/jonathan-tiernan-locke-trained-with.html?m=1

http://roadcyclinguk.com/racing/jonathan-tiernan-locke-team-sky-interview-2202.html

Thanks. Obviously I missed those earlier ones just a few pages back ...

 

[thehog]

He raced throughout March for Endura, as I suspect you know well.
So, April not March.

One man's 16YO girl is another's 16YO woman, I suppose.

The powermeter? Tough to argue with that. Real red flag.
Some would say as conclusive as a positive test.

What's your point?

Nothing. Probably not even worth the time you took to write it.

He trained with Sky for the majority of 2012. Had a passport case opened same year.

Brialsford blaming a small team. All class. Or do you think Endura are running a systematic doping program? Lol!

Big trouble in little Tenerife.

 

[thehog]

Thanks. Obviously I missed those earlier ones just a few pages back ...

No problems. Happy to assist in your search for information.

 

[Benotti69]

He raced throughout March for Endura, as I suspect you know well.
So, April not March.

One man's 16YO girl is another's 16YO woman, I suppose.

The powermeter? Tough to argue with that. Real red flag.
Some would say as conclusive as a positive test.

That Sky did not know what JTL was doing with their own internal tests during his 'crossover' year from Endura to Sky (2012) is not believable.

The guy came from nowhere to win 2 races in March and put himself on the world stage? That attracted Sky and others. Sky had to suspect him of doping and then test him to see his numbers to prove to themselves what was the reality of his ability.

I would take that a rider is tested by a team is a given by all the top teams before signing the rider. That Sky has loads of money and facilities to do this must have shown what most of us guess, JTL doped to win those races as there was no testing. That Sky took him does not reflect cleanly on Sky.

 

[Will Carter]

Thanks. Obviously I missed those earlier ones just a few pages back ...

Thanks - although not sure how reliable inthegc.com is as it looks (and I say looks) like a blog type site. However roadcyclinguk.com looks much more accuate & legit (like CN.com )

 

[del1962]

What's your point?

Nothing. Probably not even worth the time you took to write it.

He trained with Sky for the majority of 2012. Had a passport case opened same year.

Brialsford blaming a small team. All class. Or do you think Endura are running a systematic doping program? Lol!

Big trouble in little Tenerife.

You serioulsy think he trained with Sky for the majority of 2012, I know you love telling porkies, Hoggy

Thats kind of funny, you and Porkies with you name, you are kind of full of shit, I guess because you live in it.

 

[gooner]

What's your point?

Nothing. Probably not even worth the time you took to write it.

He trained with Sky for the majority of 2012. Had a passport case opened same year.

Brialsford blaming a small team. All class. Or do you think Endura are running a systematic doping program? Lol!

Big trouble in little Tenerife.

The test was near the end of the September a couple of days before the worlds. It was out of line with his base values of other ones over the next 5 months.

So you're saying Sky had him doped for the worlds and then whipped him back into line when he got a huge pay rise and was officially with the team? Somehow I find that hard to believe.

Looking at your previous posts on this, would Cavendish, Cummings and Fenn be Sky doping scandals if they get busted in a similar time period around the worlds?

 

[thehog]

The test was near the end of the September a couple of days before the worlds. It was out of line with his base values of other ones over the next 5 months.

So you're saying Sky had him doped for the worlds and then whipped him back into line when he got a huge pay rise and was officially with the team? Somehow I find that hard to believe.

Looking at your previous posts on this, would Cavendish, Cummings and Fenn be Sky doping scandals if they get busted in a similar time period around the worlds?

You need to direct those question to David Walsh. He is the embedded journalist.

Why ask me? It's not my fault JTL went gangbusters with Sky after training with them and was pulled up for a BP infraction.

 

[Benotti69]

People forget the hand of McQuaid in all this........

Took a year for JTLs' BP anomaly to be flagged just as McQuaid was about to lose to Cookson.

 

[thehog]

Thanks - although not sure how reliable inthegc.com is as it looks (and I say looks) like a blog type site. However roadcyclinguk.com looks much more accuate & legit (like CN.com )

Wikileaks looked like a blog site.

Foxnews looks like a news site.

Go figure.

 

[gooner]

You need to direct those question to David Walsh. He is the embedded journalist.

Why ask me? It's not my fault JTL went gangbusters with Sky after training with them and was pulled up for a BP infraction.

No need to ask him, he's written to articles in detail about this. It was his column that mentioned about the test in September and the case being flagged up by 3 experts by February.

You're the one throwing about the stuff that at the world's you're basically a Sky rider. The questions are relevant to yourself.

 

[Will Carter]

That Sky did not know what JTL was doing with their own internal tests during his 'crossover' year from Endura to Sky (2012) is not believable.

The guy came from nowhere to win 2 races in March and put himself on the world stage? That attracted Sky and others. Sky had to suspect him of doping and then test him to see his numbers to prove to themselves what was the reality of his ability.

I would take that a rider is tested by a team is a given by all the top teams before signing the rider. That Sky has loads of money and facilities to do this must have shown what most of us guess, JTL doped to win those races as there was no testing. That Sky took him does not reflect cleanly on Sky.

Hmm, I'm no expert but I think this could be possible : he dopes to win.

He gets ID'd as a potential WT rider and gets put in to the BP system - possibly while he is still doping (and lets assume its only BP testing - ie not urine and metabolites) so he needs to maintain the EPO (or whatever) to stay performing and keep his BP parameters in check.

Then he signs with Sky (presumably for lots more £) and (presumably) the tests increase massively (BP, Urine, etc...). At this stage his parameters go down - which points to cutting the doping out or at least having to curtail it.

To me that just doesn't fit the profile of him training for 7 months with Sky before then officially signing for Sky and all the time they are doping him.

IF they were doping him all the way (and according to people on here they are the best dopers in the world) then why has the finding happened? Why haven't they built him up slowly so as not to hit a passport case? Why screw up at that late stage? AND the other thing people speculate on here is that the UCI protect SKY and UK riders. So why JTL???

 

[Will Carter]

Wikileaks looked like a blog site.

Foxnews looks like a news site.

Go figure.

I agree - just pointing it out. I was happy with the second site.

 

[thehog]

No need to ask him, he's written to articles in detail about this. It was his column that mentioned about the test in September and the case being flagged up by 3 experts by February.

You're the one throwing about the stuff that at the world's you're basically a Sky rider. The questions are relevant to yourself.

I'm not throwing anything out. Just reporting the facts. I can't help that you don't like them.

Trains with Sky. Races with Sky/BC. Is signed by Sky. Caught for doping so, oh, must be an Endura problem?

How do you figure that out?

Festina-USPS-Endura the doping squad. LOL!

Sure it's all Endura!

 

[gooner]

People forget the hand of McQuaid in all this........

Took a year for JTLs' BP anomaly to be flaggedjust as McQuaid was about to lose to Cookson.

That is something worth highlighting.

Why did it take for 7/8 months for it to be disclosed? Why was he allowed to race in the months afterwards when 3 experts flagged it up by February?

Strange.

 

[thehog]

I agree - just pointing it out. I was happy with the second site.

''Jon was sick at Bartoli, I have friends at Sky and it made sense for him to recover and do a good block of training in the mountains with some good weather. I would not read too much into who he was with in Tenerife.'' he went on to say ''He is still committed to Endura and I will use my friends to help him. He will make decisions on 2013 later in the year.''

It is likely that many will draw their own conclusions from this, however I'm pretty certain that Brian has used Tenerife purely to benefit his rider's performance ahead of the Vuelta a Castilla y Leon and any Input from Team Sky and their extensive set-up would obviously be a massive benefit to a Continental rider like Jon Tiernan-Locke in preparation for more gruelling stage races and this in itself would not be uncommon as Brian Smith is eager to point out.

''I have friends at many WorldTour teams. We used another team for blood test facilities. Lotto (Belisol) have helped us (Endura) with 25mm tubs recently. It's nice to see WorldTour teams prepared to help and have relationships with some of the smaller teams.''

Endura couldn't even afford tyres on their bikes but according to some they were doping their cyclists!

Lot of stuff going on at Sky with JTL. Blocks of training and what not.

 

[thehog]

That is something worth highlighting.

Why did it take for 7/8 months for it to be disclosed? Why was he allowed to race in the months afterwards when 3 experts flagged it up by February?

Strange.

You blaming the McQuaid's now? Conspiracy?

Maybe he doped while training with Sky. Fairly simple conclusion.

 

[Benotti69]

Hmm, I'm no expert but I think this could be possible : he dopes to win.

No brainer.

He gets ID'd as a potential WT rider and gets put in to the BP system - possibly while he is still doping (and lets assume its only BP testing - ie not urine and metabolites) so he needs to maintain the EPO (or whatever) to stay performing and keep his BP parameters in check.

UKAD did no BP tests in 2012, apparently.

Then he signs with Sky (presumably for lots more £) and (presumably) the tests increase massively (BP, Urine, etc...). At this stage his parameters go down - which points to cutting the doping out or at least having to curtail it.

To me that just doesn't fit the profile of him training for 7 months with Sky before then officially signing for Sky and all the time they are doping him.

IF they were doping him all the way (and according to people on here they are the best dopers in the world) then why has the finding happened? Why haven't they built him up slowly so as not to hit a passport case? Why screw up at that late stage? AND the other thing people speculate on here is that the UCI protect SKY and UK riders. So why JTL???

Why would Sky sign a guy who they had for 6months and could test to see if he was the real deal? If he was using EPO it surely would flagged Sky's testing? Is JTL experienced enough to know how to dope himself to avoid tripping Sky's testing? Where did he learn it consider his career path was on small teams!

It is another blot on Sky no matter what way they try and spin it.

 

[Will Carter]

That is something worth highlighting.

Why did it take for 7/8 months for it to be disclosed? Why was he allowed to race in the months afterwards when 3 experts flagged it up by February?

Strange.

Did it take 7/8 months to be flagged or 7/8 months to become public? Its a difference.

The one thing I think we can all acknowledge is that it seems to take an age from test -> case. Given my experience of neo-public sector organisations, I am not surprised by this (usually bureacracy gone mad).

And, I'm sure people will say 'Mick Rogers' in reply to this. And I would agree - however I would think a Clen case is easier to flag and argue than a BP one. I would imagine the amount of analysis for BP is much more, and actually I'm still not sure they have the hang of the BC program (ignoring comments on here that it was designed to make it easy to dope). A Clen positive is a Clen positive - no arguments...

 

[Benotti69]

That is something worth highlighting.

Why did it take for 7/8 months for it to be disclosed? Why was he allowed to race in the months afterwards when 3 experts flagged it up by February?

Strange.

It aint strange when you put McQuiad into the picture.

My guess is McQuaid released this in order to gain for himself, what he gained was not a pinarello bike, but i hazard something far greater to stop the flow of other sky riders BPs being released.

I have no evidence, but base my opinion on how close McQuaid was with Sky through 2012 TdF, proclaiming half way through the race what a great party sky were going to have in Paris and his fawning over Sky at the 2012 Olympics.

The timing is too coincidental for me.

 

[Mellow Velo]

You serioulsy think he trained with Sky for the majority of 2012, I know you love telling porkies, Hoggy

Thats kind of funny, you and Porkies with you name, you are kind of full of shit, I guess because you live in it.

It's just a game called wind up.
Best just to score early and leave the stadium.

 

[gooner]

You blaming the McQuaid's now? Conspiracy?

Maybe he doped while training with Sky. Fairly simple conclusion.

JTL is a Andrew McQuaid rider.

I don't know why the delay was this long but there should be questions as to it though.

 

[Will Carter]

Why would Sky sign a guy who they had for 6 months and could test to see if he was the real deal? If he was using EPO it surely would flagged Sky's testing? Is JTL experienced enough to know how to dope himself to avoid tripping Sky's testing? Where did he learn it consider his career path was on small teams!

It is another blot on Sky no matter what way they try and spin it.

I think this a good question.

If he was EPO / Blood Doping consistently BEFORE getting in the BP then I guess its possible he could fool SKY (like you say - probably very expensive if by himself) by staying on it. But what has happened is that his blood numbers have gone down - i.e. indicative of coming off the doping (thats the case from my understanding).

That doesn't fit the argument on here from a lot of people that SKY were doping him during the Endura days. And (and I will say this again) if SKY are SO good at doping and were doping him at Endura then they would surely be able to manipulate everything for that period and make sure it didn't flag when he joined.

Look, I'm not saying he is innocent, but I don't see anyone trying to explain the situation described above here.

 

[gooner]

I'm not throwing anything out. Just reporting the facts. I can't help that you don't like them.

Trains with Sky. Races with Sky/BC. Is signed by Sky. Caught for doping so, oh, must be an Endura problem?

How do you figure that out?

Festina-USPS-Endura the doping squad. LOL!

Sure it's all Endura!

Signed with Sky and his suspicious test were out of line with his baseline values that were established in the months after. That's when he was officially at Sky.

If he went to Garmin who said they had no suspicions after their own testing, he still would have likely been in that worlds team.

His results were nothing to write home about in the month in Feb in a period where testing was done on him. It was the same in the months afterwards even though the case wasn't announced publicly. His performances were pitiful.