Jonathan Tiernan-Locke written to by UCI, asked to explain blood values

[thehog]

Well at least hog was right that JTL was juiced to the eyeballs for the world champs.

and also I wonder what his hematocrit was in those earlier races

Which begs the next question. How was he able to dope with BC under Brailsford?

or

How did he manage to go on such a massive binge prior considering he was in Holland 48 hours prior?

Eithway BC is not the paragon of margin gains it claims to be. JTL will appeal. And so he should.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Interesting attempt at a defence.

I agree its not plausible based on physiology, but its plausible enough to maybe have some people thinking he was hard done by.

Knowing the effects of alcohol binging on exercise first hand, (though from many moons ago), it really is inconceivable that he was that good at the worlds that close to such a bender.

The only question I have is was it EPO in August/September, or did he take a blood bag before the worlds ? (I lean towards the latter)

33 units is one heck of a binge, I wonder what that would put his Blood alcohol at ? Did he drive himself to the airport ? (if so he was probably over the legal limit by quite a margin).

If he wasn't used to drinking that much in season, his tolerance should be reduced so I do find that amount to be questionable.



Wiggo is of course famous for his drinking, wonder if there is any evidence of Dr Hampton's hypothesis is his profile ? (alcohol contract plasma volume and suppressing retics)

 

[Ferminal]

lol, you gotta wonder how big the bag was to get those numbers...

 

[the sceptic]

Which begs the next question. How was he able to dope with BC under Brailsford?

or

How did he manage to go on such a massive binge prior considering he was in Holland 48 hours prior?

Eithway BC is not the paragon of margin gains it claims to be. JTL will appeal. And so he should.

It looks very bad for sky. If JTL was able to dope like Riis without skys internal testing picking it up, then even Walsh must admit there is a possibility other sky riders could be doping as well.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Which begs the next question. How was he able to dope with BC under Brailsford?

or

How did he manage to go on such a massive binge prior considering he was in Holland 48 hours prior?

Eithway BC is not the paragon of margin gains it claims to be. JTL will appeal. And so he should.

Minor point Hog

UKAD only posts the reasoned decision after the appeal if there is one, or the chance to appeal has gone.

JTL did not appeal and has missed the window.

 

[gillan1969]

Interesting attempt at a defence.

I agree its not plausible based on physiology, but its plausible enough to maybe have some people thinking he was hard done by.

Knowing the effects of alcohol binging on exercise first hand, (though from many moons ago), it really is inconceivable that he was that good at the worlds that close to such a bender.

The only question I have is was it EPO in August/September, or did he take a blood bag before the worlds ? (I lean towards the latter)

33 units is one heck of a binge, I wonder what that would put his Blood alcohol at ? Did he drive himself to the airport ? (if so he was probably over the legal limit by quite a margin).

If he wasn't used to drinking that much in season, his tolerance should be reduced so I do find that amount to be questionable.



Wiggo is of course famous for his drinking, wonder if there is any evidence of Dr Hampton's hypothesis is his profile ? (alcohol contract plasma volume and suppressing retics)

inconceivable indeed...
to be fair for a youngster 24 hours may have made a difference (but not enough to get him in the front group) but the killer would appear to be that he trained in the morning of the 22nd with the team for three hours, apparently in such an extreme state of dehydration it gave the said readings...it doesn't pass the straight face test...well not that his worlds result did (Gilbert, Contador...eh...JTL)

if that was his best defence its probably best he didn't defend...much like his doc decided not to contest the specific medical objections raised to his case..

BTW...some girlfriend....mine gives me grief for my second (large) glass of wine and I don't even race anymore

 

[thehog]

It looks very bad for sky. If JTL was able to dope like Riis without skys internal testing picking it up, then even Walsh must admit there is a possibility other sky riders could be doping as well.

Well the dots connect. It's of big concern. Hardly a lone gunman considering he was Sky's, I mean, BCs nominated leader. Brailsford should explain how this came to be.

Poor ole JTL, the fall guy.

 

[TailWindHome]

If JTL was able to dope like Riis without skys internal testing picking it up.

Was the lack of internal testing done by Sky on JTL before signing him not one of the things they were getting kicked for?

 

[King Boonen]

If there is a programme at BC or Sky I hope he comes out and talks about it, especially as he has avoided making an appeal.

I still think team programmes are largely a thing of the past, but we'll see...

 

[del1962]

Because taking blood for dope test purposes is relatively rare. Urine tests are far more common. He gave 3 urine samples during TOB.

None of which where tested for EPO

Having read the report proof of doping, the defence case is ridiculous

Doping with EPO 13-14 days prior to the test, sorry to dissapoint Hog but while with Endura at TOB.

Wonder if he will confess all, who supplied him etc,

Wonder how much Brian Smith knows?

 

[Benotti69]

If there is a programme at BC or Sky I hope he comes out and talks about it, especially as he has avoided making an appeal.

I still think team programmes are largely a thing of the past, but we'll see...

JTL wont talk unless he is not given a ride after his ban ends, then he may have the motivation to talk if he is ostracised. Sky have the finances to keep JTL quiet.

Will Cookson tell teams not to hire JTL, the way Hein/Pat did with others?

 

[King Boonen]

JTL wont talk unless he is not given a ride after his ban ends, then he may have the motivation to talk if he is ostracised. Sky have the finances to keep JTL quiet.

Will Cookson tell teams not to hire JTL, the way Hein/Pat did with others?

But it seems JTL on the dope was average at best. Can't see anyone taking him on even on a reduced programme after his ban.

 

[Benotti69]

None of which where tested for EPO

Having read the report proof of doping, the defence case is ridiculous

Doping with EPO 13-14 days prior to the test, sorry to dissapoint Hog but while with Endura at TOB.

Wonder if he will confess all, who supplied him etc,

Wonder how much Brian Smith knows?

JTL spent most of that season with Sky. Sorry to disappoint a dyed in the wool sky fan, but it is well known he trained a lot with Sky on Tenerife from April on.

 

[Benotti69]

But it seems JTL on the dope was average at best. Can't see anyone taking him on even on a reduced programme after his ban.

Depends how he tests for his 'Adaptive physiology'.

Remember JV said Froome has a 'crazy Adaptive physiology'....

Also if JTL plays ball and keeps quiet, that is also attractive to teams, knowing a guy willing to do what is needed in the pro peloton and will not spit in the soup.

 

[Ferminal]

lol @ the mainstream hack expressing doubts over the decision.

Let's for a moment accept that he did go out on a ridiculous bender (which you would only do on faith given only him and his missus tell us about it)...

"There is no scientific evidence for a plasma volume reduction after alcohol consumption; the scientific consensus as evidenced by the general review of the literature by Beard & Knott (1971) is that alcohol consumption does not cause a loss of plasma volume but may even elevate it; the Rubini paper has been misinterpreted as the results actually show a 4% increase in plasma volume;

If alcohol induced dehydration had been a significant factor then that would be expected to have reduced the mean cell volume (MCV) of the red cells, whereas analysis showed that MCV was well within normal parameters;

There is no scientific evidence that acute alcohol intoxication has any effect on reticulocytes in healthy subjects;

Even the most extreme damage to bone marrow cells, by myelosuppressive chemotherapy, causes only a gradual decrease in reticulocytes over 7-10 days, not an immediate severe reduction in reticulocyte levels as implied by Dr. Hampton's thesis.

It is notable that in a second reported data 2 June 2014 Dr. Hampton elected not to seek to engage with any of these detailed arguments, but instead produced a generalised paper asserting the toxicity of alcohol, that alcohol causes dehydration and that high haemoglobin could be due to a reduced plasma volume with normal red cell mass. None of these points are in themselves controversial, but they do not explain what mechanism alcohol is suggested to have had the both of raising haemoglobin at the same time as reducing the level of reticulocytes to a level which Dr. Hampton described as "wildly abnormal". It is not sufficient to assume that because alcohol does have an effect on the blood it can affect the concentration of haemoglobin or the level of reticulocytes.

 

[King Boonen]

Yep, we'll have to wait and see. I think he's probably done though and would have more to make through exposing Sky.

 

[Ferminal]

Interesting that EPO cycle 10-14 days before is tentatively floated as the cause. Doesn't sound plausible given the extreme values but maybe someone can dig out the Ashenden et al study. Also how was he to know EPO wouldn't be tested in his ToB samples, incredible risk otherwise.

 

[del1962]

JTL spent most of that season with Sky. Sorry to disappoint a dyed in the wool sky fan, but it is well known he trained a lot with Sky on Tenerife from April on.

Do you even bother reading the decision,

There was no dispute theat the abnormalities in the sample were consistent with the use of an erythropoietci stimulant which was discontinued 10 to 14 days before the sample was taken

i.e. with Brian Smith's endura at TOB

Sorry to dissapoint you, the world isn't all about sky despite your obvious obsession

 

[the sceptic]

Interesting that EPO cycle 10-14 days before is tentatively floated as the cause. Doesn't sound plausible given the extreme values but maybe someone can dig out the Ashenden et al study. Also how was he to know EPO wouldn't be tested in his ToB samples, incredible risk otherwise.

Maybe he had a bag for the worlds as well?

 

[gillan1969]

JTL spent most of that season with Sky. Sorry to disappoint a dyed in the wool sky fan, but it is well known he trained a lot with Sky on Tenerife from April on.

it was SKY that initiated the test on the 24th...for what ends would this be? Standard...or, to play to the clinic gallery ...an attempt to provide a further sample which might corroborate any bad readings from the 22nd i.e. they knew they were in the cr*p and thought they should try a rearguard action?

JTL did, after all, try and introduce it as evidence..

BTW was the hearing not postponed as he couldn't get his QC of choice? The QC was probably trying to distance himself from such a desperate defence

 

[Benotti69]

a tweet from JTL

Jonthn Tiernan-Locke @J_T_Locke · 17 Aug 2013
3x2 wine carton in the boot: 2xRioja,1x vodka,1x gin,2x Champagne.Hit a roundabout hard to make the lights.Heard a smash.Too scared to look!

He likes a tipple.

 

[thehog]

Was the lack of internal testing done by Sky on JTL before signing him not one of the things they were getting kicked for?

Alcohol testing?

I prefer to stick to the facts. He was doped to the eyeballs under BC/Brailsford and training with Sky for most of that year.

This is most concerning. I'm sure David Walsh will get to the bottom of it

 

[Benotti69]

Why was Tiernan Locke not banned for having a +50% HcT?

Were Sky informed that JTL posted a 55% HcT?

 

[SundayRider]

Should have stuck to marginal gains instead he went for 'absolutely massive gains'.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Why was Tiernan Locke not banned for having a +50% HcT?

Were Sky informed that JTL posted a 55% HcT?

The "50% rule" was rescinded when (or not long after) the biopassport came into being.

A well run passport scheme making such a rule unnecessary.

(insert usual comments about the scheme being well run or not)