Juan Ayuso discussion thread

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I've been disappointed with his Vuelta. In fairness, he had a terrible (pre-)season riddled with injury, and I want to see where he stands next year after a full winter, but I had expected to see more flashes of greatness. He's young, performances can go up and down, but there was never this aura of holy smokes, he's arrived. He's been living like a pro for so long now, I'm questioning how much more progression he can make. Next year certainly won't be do or die by any means, but it's time for that big breakthrough to superstardom.

This could very well be the other side of the medal of junior professionalism.

Yeah, could be.

C-Rod is probably the best Spanish GT specialist right now. He would have likely finished 4th at the Tour without that nasty crash.

I think most of us just assumed that Ayuso was more talented than him. I'm still leaning towards that, but barely.

 

[balac]

Said yesterday that he's obviously disappointed with the result, but he's done a step forward this year. Just that the rivals this time were stronger than last year.

Had a cold on the 3rd week and a crash 2 days before Angliru so that didn't help either. Not a bad Vuelta, but not a good one either. Team's decision now for him to go to the Tour (if Vuelta went well) or Giro (if he wasn't good enough in Vuelta) will be interesting for next year.


Will be interesting to see if he races more or if he just shuts down this bad season, and just start with a fresh mind next year after all the mishaps this year.

 

[roundabout]

I think Mas was better last year than this time around, but is otherwise the best comparison. In 2022, Ayuso lost 2'22" in the mountains to Mas, I think. This time around the only real difference between them was when Mas went over his limit on Javalambre and dropped from Rogla and Vingegaard in the last km.

Disregarding Jumbo for a moment, IMO Ayuso being roughly the same level as Mas in the mountains is not a good sign considering that Mas crashed in the Tour and could not train on the road for 3 weeks after and then crashed again once he got back to training.

Certainly pre-season and early season were not good for Ayuso, but being able to win stages and podium the TdS was indicative that he was over his health problems.

But maybe his crashes pre-Vuelta and during the Vuelta had a bigger effect

 

[theyoungest]

Yeah, could be.

C-Rod is probably the best Spanish GT specialist right now. He would have likely finished 4th at the Tour without that nasty crash.

I think most of us just assumed that Ayuso was more talented than him. I'm still leaning towards that, but barely.

I don't think Rodriguez would have done much better than Ayuso in this Vuelta. Yes, he could have been 4th in the Tour, but he only featured when Pogi and Vingo were doing track stands on a climb.

 

[Netserk]

Disregarding Jumbo for a moment, IMO Ayuso being roughly the same level as Mas in the mountains is not a good sign considering that Mas crashed in the Tour and could not train on the road for 3 weeks after and then crashed again once he got back to training.

Certainly pre-season and early season were not good for Ayuso, but being able to win stages and podium the TdS was indicative that he was over his health problems.

But maybe his crashes pre-Vuelta and during the Vuelta had a bigger effect

Agreed, but it's still a step up from last year. It's also the reason why I have Mas higher than Ayuso in the GC power ranking.

 

[Red Rick]

My view is mainly that many overreacted to his stage wins in particularly Tour de Suisse while kinda ignoring the times he got dropped there and then extrapolated from there. I don't remember when but at some point before the Vuelta he said he wanted to be ready to win the Tour de France next year. I wonder if he didn't just look only at himself improving and kinda ignored the general quality of the field improving. He basically hadn't raced riders of Roglic and Vingegaard quality ever before.

 

[staubsauger]

Given the circumstances it's been a decent 2023 Vuelta a Espana for Ayuso. His delayed season start meant that he was fresher than other favorites, but certainly missed some improvement that was anticipated given his talent & age.

Without the breakaway towards Javalambre he might end up 3rd @ the 2023 Vuelta a Espana, given GC Kuss never fully materializes. That's okay. He's still 4th now. But had a cough up towards Angliru. In the worst possible moment. Still hang onto that best of the rest placement, despite strong challenge from Landa & Bahrain.

It's not as if last year was completely free of mishap (Covid-19, crash) and luck (Roglic out) either. This time around the pendulum deflected the other way around. Mas was ill after last year's Tour de France as well. So it's not fair to say he only was significantly weaker for Ayuso to beat him.

Depending on the routes I would send him to the 2024 Giro d'Italia. Unless the 2024 Vuelta a Espana comes up with a parcours that screams his name. But a typical Giro d'Italia route with long cols for a diesel motor and a hilly TT should favor Ayuso. Especially if he fully focuses on the corsa Rosa from this fall on and really reaches peak level in Italy.

At the Vuelta a Espana eventually you never know who comes in which shape from the Tour de France. So it's a bit of a risky gamble to have a shy season start and slowly build up towards the Vuelta a Espana. Although it absolutely can work out in contrary to this year.


UAE desperately needs to win a Grand Tour in case Teddy Pogacar can't beat Vingegaard even with ideal preparation. Of course it's a much more closer battle if Teddy is fully prepared. But they should send Almeida in company. Who can help a bit, but still ride for a Top 5 spot like Azevedo used to do for Lance Armstrong. Then, with Ayuso, they can focus on the Giro d'Italia and secure a successful season even if Vingegaard is a nut that can't be cracked.

3 years without a Grand Tour win is unacceptable for a big budget team like UAE!

Frankly that's the benefit of having a super talent like Ayuso on your team. You can send him to the Giro d'Italia and have Grand Tour success independent from the Tour de France outcome.

 

[Berniece]

Quite disappointed in his performance during the Vuelta, after last year I expected more of him

 

[Nick2413]

Quite disappointed in his performance during the Vuelta, after last year I expected more of him

He was significantly better than last year and instead of being 3 min behind Mas was 1 min ahead this time. The top 3 being as good as they were clouds this imo.

 

[Berniece]

He was significantly better than last year and instead of being 3 min behind Mas was 1 min ahead this time. The top 3 being as good as they were clouds this imo.

True, but I didn't have the feeling that Mas was as good as last year

 

[SafeBet]

He was significantly better than last year and instead of being 3 min behind Mas was 1 min ahead this time. The top 3 being as good as they were clouds this imo.

We would need to check his numbers in every climbing effort but I don't think he was significantly better than last year.
Maybe marginally better. Mas can't be used as a measuring stick since his prep was altered after his TdF injury.

I'm hoping he can have a pain free winter and a full season in 2024 so we can assess his further development as a GT rider.

 

[Red Rick]

We would need to check his numbers in every climbing effort but I don't think he was significantly better than last year.
Maybe marginally better. Mas can't be used as a measuring stick since his prep was altered after his TdF injury.

I'm hoping he can have a pain free winter and a full season in 2024 so we can assess his further development as a GT rider.

Climbing numbers are pointless when the entire field changes along

 

[balac]

Q from journalist: Is it true that you don't get along with Almeida? Answer: Well, what can I say? We respect each other and then what happens in the race, people can see what happens.

UAE needs to find a way to fix it or just don't make them race together. Also said that he would like to be a secondary leader on the tour next year, but that's up to the team. Doesn't know what GT, he'll do next year, but he will only do 1.

Also, I read on twitter that he answered some journalist saying that he'll do the italian classics.

https://www.relevo.com/ciclismo/la-vuelta/juan-ayuso-nivel-sentarme-mesa-20230918005803-nt.html

 

[carolina]

I'd say Ayuso is doing the Giro next year. With La Vuelta starting in Portugal, Almeida will likely want to do it. He's also overdue to go to the Tour and Pogacar needs all the help he can get.

 

[Miss Violet Smith]

Q from journalist: Is it true that you don't get along with Almeida? Answer: Well, what can I say? We respect each other and then what happens in the race, people can see what happens.

UAE needs to find a way to fix it or just don't make them race together. Also said that he would like to be a secondary leader on the tour next year, but that's up to the team. Doesn't know what GT, he'll do next year, but he will only do 1.

So, Ayuso and Almeida "respect each other", Ayuso's and Almeida's contracts allow them to not ride for/with Pogačar, Ayuso is targeting only one GT next year and would like it to be the Tour - okay, it's like UAE doesn't even want to win a GT ever again.

 

[roundabout]

I am guessing that Ayuso and Almeida may also not be obliged to ride for each other judging by what happened on the Angliru (unless Ayuso was ok with Almeida leaving him behind).

 

[perico]

Quite disappointed in his performance during the Vuelta, after last year I expected more of him

He’s 20 years old and his 2 Top 10s in a GT. I’m not concerned yet.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

He’s 20 years old and his 2 Top 10s in a GT. I’m not concerned yet.

He‘s 21

 

[Berniece]

He’s 20 years old and his 2 Top 10s in a GT. I’m not concerned yet.

Yeah that's true, still a lot of room to grow. Maybe when he's 25 and he still rides these results. It was just that I expect bigger jumps when they are younger. For example, Uijtdebroeks made a bigger jump from 19 => 20, imo.

 

[Bolder]

He‘s 21

Obviously a failure!

 

[staubsauger]

Yeah that's true, still a lot of room to grow. Maybe when he's 25 and he still rides these results. It was just that I expect bigger jumps when they are younger. For example, Uijtdebroeks made a bigger jump from 19 => 20, imo.

Ayuso lost several months of progession due to injury though.

Frankly I read his statement about Almeida like "I have to work on myself to become a better rider. Then I'm the undisputed leader and he works for me"

 

[Miss Violet Smith]

He‘s 21

"An aged man is but a paltry thing,
A tattered coat upon a stick, unless
Soul clap its hands and sing, and louder sing
For every tatter in its mortal dress," - W.B. Yeats

 

[IndianCyclist]

We respect each other and then what happens in the race, people can see what happens.

If somebody drops you is that respect? In that weird way, if somebody insults you, does it means respecting you? These guys are so media coached that they cant even call a spade a spade.

 

[noob]

If somebody drops you is that respect? In that weird way, if somebody insults you, does it means respecting you? These guys are so media coached that they cant even call a spade a spade.

I read it maybe like this; they respect each other as people outside races. (They've been training together for example). But inside the race is another beef and we can all see it.

 

[noob]

I'd say Ayuso is doing the Giro next year. With La Vuelta starting in Portugal, Almeida will likely want to do it. He's also overdue to go to the Tour and Pogacar needs all the help he can get.

Makes sense. Almeida can do 2 GT in a year while having Ayuso do so is nearly child abuse.