Juan Ayuso discussion thread

[Cycling111]

And in tdf Ayuso said Almeida gestured at him on purpose to make him look bad. So to deny that in house rivalry would be naive.

I think it was also Piper who said he saw no friendship in the peleton, but rather camaraderie.

Ayuso shirked her job at the TDF, and Almeida made those gestures on purpose.
The only difference is that Almeida worked for Pogacar in the Volta and for Yates in Switzerland. Ayuso never did. But both have been bad teammates more than once.

Neither Almeida nor Ayuso can protest if Del Toro does the same to them.
In the end, everything comes back

 

[greyclouds]

Ayuso shirked her job at the TDF, and Almeida made those gestures on purpose.
The only difference is that Almeida worked for Pogacar in the Volta and for Yates in Switzerland. Ayuso never did. But both have been bad teammates more than once.

Neither Almeida nor Ayuso can protest if Del Toro does the same to them.
In the end, everything comes back

Leaving aside the whole Almeida/Remco Giro '21 novela, when was Almeida a 'bad teammate' to anyone? Certainly not at UAE, at least that I can remember.

There a few comparisons between Del Toro/Ayuso now and Ayuso/Almeida Vuelta '22.

Ayuso was the strongest that Vuelta but also younger/less experienced (it was his first GT at 19) but they were both given free reign to continue doing their own GCs after Ayuso gained time early on (stage 6 Pico Jano), slightly against policy even more than yesterday - by policy I mean the unwritten rule that you don't leave your leader behind for your own GC ambitions.

For the sake of the race and ciclismo I hope that Del Toro is given leader's support, at least until he cracks.

 

[noob]

Leaving aside the whole Almeida/Remco Giro '21 novela, when was Almeida a 'bad teammate' to anyone? Certainly not at UAE, at least that I can remember.

There a few comparisons between Del Toro/Ayuso now and Ayuso/Almeida Vuelta '22.

Ayuso was the strongest that Vuelta but also younger/less experienced (it was his first GT at 19) but they were both given free reign to continue doing their own GCs after Ayuso gained time early on (stage 6 Pico Jano), slightly against policy even more than yesterday - by policy I mean the unwritten rule that you don't leave your leader behind for your own GC ambitions.

For the sake of the race and ciclismo I hope that Del Toro is given leader's support, at least until he cracks.

Ayuso was second in gc in Catalunya. Almeida passed him to take the stage win the next day.

When Soler the Catalan was passing Almeida the last stage almost podium Almeida and Yates chased him down.

So it's up for debate if that's a bad teammate or simply bad leadership from team cars who has too many good riders and can't keep them all happy.

But to say Almeida isn't fueled by in-house rivalry seems to be a lie. When a teammate is up the road he goes, least it's Pogagar. He did let Yates win Suisse though I wouldn't go as far as saying he worked for him. They were even and anyone of them could've won it. Yates even said he asked Almeida if he could have the win at the stage before the last ITT so between those 2 there seems to be no drama.

 

[staubsauger]

Almeida literally found out last summer that cycling is actually a team sport! 😄

 

[CyclistAbi]

Abandoned by the team.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

So far the team has done its job when asked.

 

[noob]

Abandoned by the team.

Nah, just usual UAE stuff

 

[HashRouge]

Abandoned by the team.

Barancini waited, didn't he? It didn't look like it needed anyone else, Ayuso had a really quick bike change.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@HashRouge

Quickly chased down by race leader, no leadout for bonus seconds ... Pogi wouldn't tolerate that.

 

[CyclistAbi]

He compared it to a very similar experience he himself had in the 2009 Tour de France with Lance Armstrong, "At that point there was a break in the peloton, and the surprising thing was that my own team - where, in theory, I was the leader - was collaborating in the front group, opening up a gap and putting time on me.

"It happened to me with Armstrong in 2009" - Alberto Contador analyzes the situation between Ayuso and Del Toro

On stage 11 of the Giro d'Italia 2025, Isaac del Toro launched an attack on the last climb, with the intention of chasing Richard Carapaz. However, no one followed him, and UAE Team Emirates - XRG did...

cyclinguptodate.com

P.S. Happened to Rogla too.

 

[Unchained]

"It happened to me with Armstrong in 2009" - Alberto Contador analyzes the situation between Ayuso and Del Toro

On stage 11 of the Giro d'Italia 2025, Isaac del Toro launched an attack on the last climb, with the intention of chasing Richard Carapaz. However, no one followed him, and UAE Team Emirates - XRG did...

cyclinguptodate.com

P.S. Happened to Rogla too.

Are we just going to go back a few years at a time!? Ok Lemond and Hinault..

 

[Cycling111]

Abandoned by the team.

No. They do the same to Pogacar. Pogacar has to position alone on the flat stages.
On the schelons stage, he was left alone; his seven teammates left him alone , including Ayuso, who didn't help him on any day. And ar the gravel stage in Troyes, only Wellens helped before Pogacar attack. UAE is a disaster at that. Ayuso did the same thing to Pogacar during 14 stages.

 

[AlfaLum]

People looking for drama too much. After 12 stages UAE is in a great position with Del Toro in pink and Ayuso second. They have two other riders still sitting in the top-10.

Mcnulty and Yates havent had to do much work for the team yet, But did some by closing a large part of the gap to Carapaz in stage 11.

Until now Ayuso and del Toro have cooperated quite decently, with the exception of a Del Toro attack in stage 11 which he quickly stopped.

Next week will determine if del Toro will remain to be one of the captains if his level is still high enough in the big mountain stages. If so, Ayuso and Del Toro will likely both be allowed to challenge for the win. Which is only fair.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Teddy is the real DS of the team. If Del Toro was told to slow down because of Ayuso then Matxin and Gianetti will face consequences.

 

[Peyroteo94]

This situation is not similar to Contador and Armstrong. Del Toro is showing to be stronger than Ayuso (at the moment) when Armstrong never showed he was better than Contador.

 

[Rackham]

The route of this Giro so far makes any claim that Del Toro could be stronger than Ayuso a bit fanciful due to the fact we've had hardly any real difficulties. In that respect it really does share a small similarity with the 2009 TdF in the sense the backended nature of that edition meant L.A. could 'pretend' he was in contention versus Contador for longer than his legs eventually showed.

All things being equal and unless Del Toro has suddenly made several massive leaps forward, he'll be in huge trouble starting on Tuesday IMO.

And I suspect the only thing bothering Ayuso right now is his knee. That pointless gravel stage might have amused the spectators but both favorites hit the deck. That's impacting the race right now.

 

[AlfaLum]

The route of this Giro so far makes any claim that Del Toro could be stronger than Ayuso a bit fanciful due to the fact we've had hardly any real difficulties. In that respect it really does share a small similarity with the 2009 TdF in the sense the backended nature of that edition meant L.A. could 'pretend' he was in contention versus Contador for longer than his legs eventually showed.

All things being equal and unless Del Toro has suddenly made several massive leaps forward, he'll be in huge trouble starting on Tuesday IMO.

And I suspect the only thing bothering Ayuso right now is his knee. That pointless gravel stage might have amused the spectators but both favorites hit the deck. That's impacting the race right now.

Their were attacks on the San Pellegrino, which Toro answered with ease, Del Toro was by far the strongest in the sterrato stage, which was still a 40 minute effort from him.

I think reactions like this are overlooking the level that Del Toro has reached the last 1,5 years so far, where I will mention only what he did in the past half year:

• Del Toro was probably among the three best riders in Basque Country, but did insane work for Almeida instead of going for a result himself
• Del Toro was very good in Tirreno working for Ayuso, where he still managed to get 7th in the mountain stage after setting up Ayuso for the win
• Del Toro won Milano - Torino with a strong performance on Superga
• Del Toro had the entire peloton in pain in The Ardèche while setting up the Ayuso win
• Del Toro was probably the strongest in Jaen, but because McNulty was in front with Kwiatkowski hé could only try to bridge the gap at too late a point in the race

Of course there is a possibility that his inexperience will show next week and that he will suffer during week three. But we are dealing with a superbly talented rider here, and pointing to several massive leaps forward here doesnt really do justice the guy has reached in past races.

 

[Rackham]

Their were attacks on the San Pellegrino, which Toro answered with ease, Del Toro was by far the strongest in the sterrato stage, which was still a 40 minute effort from him.

I think reactions like this are overlooking the level that Del Toro has reached the last 1,5 years so far, where I will mention only what he did in the past half year:

• Del Toro was probably among the three best riders in Basque Country, but did insane work for Almeida instead of going for a result himself
• Del Toro was very good in Tirreno working for Ayuso, where he still managed to get 7th in the mountain stage after setting up Ayuso for the win
• Del Toro won Milano - Torino with a strong performance on Superga
• Del Toro had the entire peloton in pain in The Ardèche while setting up the Ayuso win
• Del Toro was probably the strongest in Jaen, but because McNulty was in front with Kwiatkowski hé could only try to bridge the gap at too late a point in the race

Of course there is a possibility that his inexperience will show next week and that he will suffer during week three. But we are dealing with a superbly talented rider here, and pointing to several massive leaps forward here doesnt really do justice the guy has reached in past races.

It depends on what people are looking for or expecting Del Toro to become.

If you're saying he's a great rider with huge prospects, yes. But what I'm seeing around the internet is people suggesting he's going to be the best climber in this Giro and he's the new Pog, basically. Now unless there's outside factors (crashes, incidents, whatever), I believe people are extrapolating Pog's rise and applying the same 'logic' to Del Toro because he rides in the same team.

I'm much more reserved.

 

[AlfaLum]

It depends on what people are looking for or expecting Del Toro to become.

If you're saying he's a great rider with huge prospects, yes. But what I'm seeing around the internet is people suggesting he's going to be the best climber in this Giro and he's the new Pog, basically. Now unless there's outside factors (crashes, incidents, whatever), I believe people are extrapolating Pog's rise and applying the same 'logic' to Del Toro because he rides in the same team.

I'm much more reserved.

There is no need for him to be the new Pogacar to challenge for this giro. Even a 100% fit Ayuso is not near the level of the current Pogacar. Same goes for Roglic. And both of them are not at their best level for the moment.

The ceiling for Del Toro is hard to predict, his level has been amazing since Avenir 2023 and there seems to be quite some upside for him given his background. I think even Del Toro and UAE dont know whether he will be able to compete in the third week this time around.

What i do know, is that for now, over these past 12 stages he has been the best GC rider in this Giro.

 

[Red Rick]

Del Toro has been the best GC rider not taken out by Lucas Hamilton. Big difference.

 

[Peyroteo94]

The route of this Giro so far makes any claim that Del Toro could be stronger than Ayuso a bit fanciful due to the fact we've had hardly any real difficulties. In that respect it really does share a small similarity with the 2009 TdF in the sense the backended nature of that edition meant L.A. could 'pretend' he was in contention versus Contador for longer than his legs eventually showed.

All things being equal and unless Del Toro has suddenly made several massive leaps forward, he'll be in huge trouble starting on Tuesday IMO.

And I suspect the only thing bothering Ayuso right now is his knee. That pointless gravel stage might have amused the spectators but both favorites hit the deck. That's impacting the race right now.

Contador beat LA in the TT and Arcallis. Both were in the first week

 

[Rackham]

Contador beat LA in the TT and Arcallis. Both were in the first week

An injured Ayuso with stiches coming undone demolished Del Toro in the ITT on Tuesday.

 

[Cycling111]

Hesjedal, TAO, and Hindley have won a Giro. Hindley beat Carapaz when he was at great moment.
They can win the Giro without being a dominant rider. And winning a Giro doesn't mean being a rider who can win a Tour. Hindley did a good Tour but had no chance of winning it.

 

[Cycling111]

Teddy is the real DS of the team. If Del Toro was told to slow down because of Ayuso then Matxin and Gianetti will face consequences.

If that were the case, Ayuso wouldn't have gone to the Tour after saying he wouldn't be a domestique, while talking about his own interests. Pogacar needed and wanted a team that support him, Like every Tour leader, not teammates with personal aspirations.
Ayuso was in the Tour by decision of the DS

An injured Ayuso with stiches coming undone demolished Del Toro in the ITT on Tuesday.

In time trials, it's important to be a good specialist. Ayuso is better and has more experience than Del Toro in ITT.

Even if Pantani was strong, he did disaster ITT. Ciccone is in good shape and has done bad time ITT. He's simply very bad at the specialty.

It was also a rainy time trial. Del Toro may have been more afraid due to his inexperience. It's difficult to draw conclusions from a rainy time trial due to the risk/fear factor of each rider.

I wouldn't draw so many conclusions about riders shape when talking about cyclists who haven't won a single time trial and it was raining.

 

[Rackham]

If that were the case, Ayuso wouldn't have gone to the Tour after saying he wouldn't be a domestique, while talking about his own interests. Pogacar needed and wanted a team that support him, Like every Tour leader, not teammates with personal aspirations.
Ayuso was in the Tour by decision of the DS


In time trials, it's important to be a good specialist. Ayuso is better and has more experience than Del Toro in ITT.

Even if Pantani was strong, he did disaster ITT. Ciccone is in good shape and has done bad time ITT. He's simply very bad at the specialty.

It was also a rainy time trial. Del Toro may have been more afraid due to his inexperience. It's difficult to draw conclusions from a rainy time trial due to the risk/fear factor of each rider.

I wouldn't draw so many conclusions about riders shape when talking about cyclists who haven't won a single time trial and it was raining.

It seems quite arbitrary for people to extrapolate Del Toro's improvements into a scenario in which he wins the Giro by beating Ayuso, Rog and co - especially in the mountains - yet there's a convenient little addendum in the form of *except in ITT's

Tbh he already lost more time in that ITT than a lot of his biggest proponents believed he would so I'd say the truth regarding the overall bigger picture is somewhere in the middle, which means all things being equal I fully expect Ayuso to drop Del Toro quite handily next week (along with other climbers doing the same as well).