Juan Ayuso discussion thread

[Squire]

Is there actually any sort of evidence that he is being 'punished'? This whole discussion seems extremely speculative to me. He dropped out of the Tour with illness and wasn't supposed to ride the Vuelta anyway. He might not have had the best preparation to just be chucked into that race now, and the team also has a lot of other riders they need to give some crumbs to. Several riders on the team were probably promised they would ride the Vuelta (some with leadership, like Yates and Almeida) and has had their plans geared towards Vuelta participation for a long time already.

I'll bow down to the greater wisdom of anyone who can show me any quotes from relevant people that Ayuso is being punished, however.

 

[scribers]

You would have to be able to read between the lines. Anyone can see it at this point without needing to be told it.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Squire

Gianetti made it rather clear in interviews and most fans in this thread are rather keen to put much emphasise on things like Ayuso was being selfish at the Tour, as criteria for (non) selection. Imagine if Pogi would not be included in the Tour selection, reason selfish. In the end it's mobbing, that is what this really is. They are trying to man handle a kid.

Keep on fighting Juan!

 

[Salvarani]

Most are saying it was because he was sick and havent been on the bike for three weeks... that might be why he is not starting.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Salvarani

Sure.

 

[tobydawq]

Most are saying it was because he was sick and havent been on the bike for three weeks... that might be why he is not starting.

What do you mean by most?

 

[Salvarani]

What do you mean by most?

As I wrote it.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Most are saying it was because he was sick and havent been on the bike for three weeks... that might be why he is not starting.

Which doesnt make much sense since he was quite decent in Paris and there should be enough time to get better. Remember, Ayuso really isn't great at one day races, particularly not with a route like this one. I think it has very little to do with his level and much more so with his commitment to Pogacar in July and the team's plans of the season and the Vuelta. Also, had Del Toro not performed the way he has, that particular spot would be Juan's I think. 2 1/2 protected riders should be enough, and you also have a bunch of very talented riders like McNulty etc. who has been promised to ride this race most likely.

 

[Salvarani]

Which doesnt make much sense since he was quite decent in Paris and there should be enough time to get better. Remember, Ayuso really isn't great at one day races, particularly not with a route like this one. I think it has very little to do with his level and much more so with his commitment to Pogacar in July and the team's plans of the season and the Vuelta. Also, had Del Toro not performed the way he has, that particular spot would be Juan's I think. 2 1/2 protected riders should be enough, and you also have a bunch of very talented riders like McNulty etc. who has been promised to ride this race most likely.

Maybe Ayuso was just never supposed to ride the Vuelta and it became and after-thought when he dropped out. Then he got sick and was bad in the Olympics.

It doesnt seem in anyones best interest that he would start.

I dont understand why some people are suddenly on "team Ayuso". It is just because they dont like UAE.

 

[tobydawq]

As I wrote it.

Yes, then let me rephrase: Where do you get that from? I haven't seen it mentioned and find it very likely that they don't want him in the team because he has shown no will to help anybody so far in his career and that having him in the team will make it very difficult to have a good environment.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Most are saying it was because he was sick and havent been on the bike for three weeks... that might be why he is not starting.

How did he complete the Olympic road race without training by the way?

 

[Salvarani]

How did he complete the Olympic road race without training by the way?

Completing a race, for an athlete, and being in your best form are two very different things. Likewise he could start the Vuelta, but he would probably not be able to perform or have anything to do with the win... not being in his best form. He might be able to finish though, of course, even though he would probably drop out instead of suffering with no good result to aim for.

It is not Bob lining up for a marathon straight from the couch.

 

[Jan the Man]

He is 21, and was never scheduled to ride la vuelta. I think that is the principal reason he has not been taken.

Was there some friction in the Tour team about his performance on Galibier, possibly. Have yates and almeida shown themseleves as a good team (yes Suisse). Is it important that a team has balance without too many ‘cooks’, yes. Have Yates and Almeida proven they can podium GTs, yes. These could have been ‘minor factors’ in the decision but i suspect minor (other than team balance).

The practical reality is that even though he DNF stage 13 of the tour so missed the last week it would be very rare for any 21 year old to do two GTs in a season.

Coupled with the fact he left the Tour with illness so we can safely presume that affected him for some time post Tour. Far from being seen as ‘punishing him’ they are probably just following the original plan!

If i was Ayuso I’d get my head down, try and race more with Pog to learn from the best and take opportunities in the races i am not being asked to domestique for him.

There is surely no rider at UAE under any illusion that Pog is top dog and whenever he races they are domestique.

 

[Squire]

@Squire

Gianetti made it rather clear in interviews and most fans in this thread are rather keen to put much emphasise on things like Ayuso was being selfish at the Tour, as criteria for (non) selection. Imagine if Pogi would not be included in the Tour selection, reason selfish. In the end it's mobbing, that is what this really is. They are trying to man handle a kid.

Keep on fighting Juan!

Ah, finally some hard evidence. Then you wouldn't mind linking me the interview where Gianetti makes it rather clear that Ayuso's non-selection is punishment for being selfish?

 

[CyclistAbi]

Ah, finally some hard evidence. Then you wouldn't mind linking me the interview where Gianetti makes it rather clear that Ayuso's non-selection is punishment for being selfish?

You don't have to look far, was mentioned already in this thread:

Page 36 - Juan Ayuso discussion thread

Page 36 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

forum.cyclingnews.com

 

[Netserk]

Ah, finally some hard evidence. Then you wouldn't mind linking me the interview where Gianetti makes it rather clear that Ayuso's non-selection is punishment for being selfish?

It's based on this article: https://www.tuttobiciweb.it/article...nce-zampata-re-leone-tappa-17-evenepoel-ayuso

Già che c’ero ho chiesto anche di Ayuso. Gli ho chiesto se farà la Vuelta. “Ayuso doveva fare il Tour. Tu lo vedi? No, non farà la Vuelta. Ho tanti corridori forti da far correre”.
«Anche qui avevamo visto giusto. La giornata del Galibier ha lasciato un brutto segno difficile da cancellare».

Nei giorni scorsi erano uscite delle illazioni secondo le quali il giovane spagnolo avrebbe nel contratto che lui non va ai grandi giri per tirare per Tadej. Risposta di Gianetti: “Ma secondo te io firmerei un contratto così? Chi va forte ha la squadra a disposizione. E Tadej mi pare vada forte e vinca tanto”.
«Mauro ha ragione. Ayuso può guardare gli esempi di Indurain al servizio di Delgado o Froome al servizio di Wiggins».

Potevo non chiedere a Mauro se Ayuso, già contattato da altre squadre, ha una clausola? Risposta lapidaria: “100 milioni”. Come ne viene fuori lo spagnolo da questa situazione molto complicata?
«Rischia di smettere di correre. Sto esagerando, chiaramente, ma non se ne viene fuori facilmente da questa situazione. Però il rischio che questa faccenda condizioni per anni la sua carriera è molto reale».

While I was at it I also asked about Ayuso. I asked him if he would do the Vuelta. "Ayuso was supposed to do the Tour. Do you see him? No, he won't do the Vuelta. I have many strong riders to race."
"We were right here too. The day in the Galibier left a bad mark that is difficult to erase."

In the past few days there had been speculation that the young Spaniard had it in his contract that he doesn't go to the Grand Tours to pull for Tadej. Gianetti's reply: 'But would I sign a contract like that? Whoever is going strong has the team at his disposal. And Tadej seems to me to be going strong and winning a lot'.
"Mauro is right. Ayuso can look at the examples of Indurain serving Delgado or Froome serving Wiggins'.

Could I not ask Mauro if Ayuso, already contacted by other teams, has a clause? Lapidary answer: '100 million'. How does the Spaniard come out of this very complicated situation?
"He's in danger of stopping running. I'm exaggerating, of course, but he doesn't come out of this situation easily. But the risk that this affair conditions his career for years is very real'.

The comments in non-bold are not by Gianetti.

 

[Coffeeplanter]

You don't have to look far, was mentioned already in this thread:

Page 36 - Juan Ayuso discussion thread

Page 36 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

forum.cyclingnews.com

First of all, that wasn't an interview with Gianetti. The thing you are reading on Tuttobici is the view of Mario Cipollini having a daily chat with I do not know who. Some guy named Poetta(?). Secondly, the unknown in question is only paraphrasing Gianetti, saying he isn't riding. Not that he isn't riding because he was selfish. That's just your mind running to conclusions.

Edit: Poetta is the wife of Cipo. He is chatting to Claudio Ghisalberti.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Coffeeplanter

You seem to have deep understanding of the background, even down to wife involed, so best to ask you directly. Did Gianetti say what is written in that X post or he didn't say that? Lets leave the interpretations out for now.

Was that said by Gianetti, or not?

 

[Coffeeplanter]

@Coffeeplanter

You seem to have deep understanding of the background, even down to wife involed, so best to ask you directly. Did Gianetti say what is written in that X post or he didn't say that? Lets leave the interpretations out for now.

Was that said by Gianetti, or not?

The correct answer is that we don't know. What we do know is saying 'Gianetti said' is misleading and false.

 

[CyclistAbi]

The correct answer is that we don't know. What we do know is saying 'Gianetti said' is misleading and false.

Fair enough but why is it then presented as Gianetti quote and not something Cipollini said? It was all over the news:

"Ayuso was supposed to do the Tour. Do you see him? No, he won’t do the Vuelta" - UAE team boss has no plans to send Juan Ayuso to ride the Spanish grand tour

While Tadej Pogacar has a pretty flawless Tour de France, the same cannot be said about his teammate Juan Ayuso. The Spaniard with a Vuelta a Espana podium finish in his palmares was intended to stay...

cyclinguptodate.com

Naturally, Tuttobici asked the UAE Team Emirates boss Mauro Gianetti about whether there is a chance the 21-year-old would return to his home Grand Tour in August. "Ayuso was supposed to do the Tour. Do you see him? No, he won’t do the Vuelta. I have a lot of strong riders to send there," is the strong resolution of Gianetti.

I don't speak Italian but translating the article:

LA ZAMPATA DI RE LEONE. EVENEPOEL PUO' TENTARE L'IMPOSSIBILE, AYUSO E' GIA' NELL'IMPOSSIBILE...

Mario Cipollini analizza per noi la tappa numero 17 della Grande Boucle

www.tuttobiciweb.it

The way this reads to me it indeed was an interview with Cipollini but the journalist talking to Cipollini raised the question in which he, the journalist, told Cipollini on what Gianetti said to him, the journalist? To that question Cipollini responded in the lines of for sure Galibier left a "bad sign difficult to erase". This is the translation i got so native speaker can correct it.

So basically what you are questioning is the validity of journalist claim? Why? Is that journalist known for that?

Anyway, what are we saying then? Gianetti was happy with Ayuso, Cipollini and his sentiment toward Ayuso in the article was positive, fans all over the internet supported Ayuso? Why on earth would then the journalist in question ask such question and got a respond as he did? So although we can't be 100% sure the journalist was teling the truth i don't see any special reason he would lie about it. So best to leave this one to ones personal decision on what to believe.

 

[Coffeeplanter]

Fair enough but why is it then presented as Gianetti quote and not something Cipollini said? It was all over the news:

"Ayuso was supposed to do the Tour. Do you see him? No, he won’t do the Vuelta" - UAE team boss has no plans to send Juan Ayuso to ride the Spanish grand tour

While Tadej Pogacar has a pretty flawless Tour de France, the same cannot be said about his teammate Juan Ayuso. The Spaniard with a Vuelta a Espana podium finish in his palmares was intended to stay...

cyclinguptodate.com

I don't speak Italian but translating the article:

LA ZAMPATA DI RE LEONE. EVENEPOEL PUO' TENTARE L'IMPOSSIBILE, AYUSO E' GIA' NELL'IMPOSSIBILE...

Mario Cipollini analizza per noi la tappa numero 17 della Grande Boucle

www.tuttobiciweb.it

The way this reads to me it indeed was an interview with Cipollini but the journalist talking to Cipollini raised the question in which he, the journalist, told Cipollini on what Gianetti said to him, the journalist? To that question Cipollini responded in the lines of for sure Galibier left a "bad sign difficult to erase". This is the translation i got so native speaker can correct it.

So basically what you are questioning is the validity of journalist claim? Why? Is that journalist known for that?

Anyway, what are we saying then? Gianetti was happy with Ayuso, Cipollini and his sentiment toward Ayuso in the article was positive, fans all over the internet supported Ayuso? Why on earth would then the journalist in question ask such question and got a respond as he did? So although we can't be 100% sure the journalist was teling the truth i don't see any special reason he would lie about it. So best to leave this one to ones personal decision on what to believe.

I presume you are capable of reading? First of all, I am not responsible for what other websites decide to put on their page, which makes the question as to why they decide to publish it quite silly. Secondly, websites making clickbait titles and sensationalistic headlines in order to create clicks and thereby revenue? I, for one, am shocked.

Thirdly, I never made any claim regarding the validity of the journalist. That is, once again, your mind running to nonsense. What I did say is that the quote presented is not a direct quote, but rather Ghisalberti paraphrasing. I presume you know what this means? The word 'selfish' or any synonym was also never used, you just made that up. The Galibier leaving a bad mark is a thought / opinion of Cipollini, not information.

The last paragraph is not even worth responding to, just gibberish. Don't bother quoting me again on this subject, you have all the information you need. If you wish to run to premature conclusions, that's on you.

 

[Escarabajo]

My head hurts just reading these posts. I'll just wait for the final startlist and really learn if he starts or not.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Thirdly, I never made any claim regarding the validity of the journalist.

OK. Then lets assume that what was said by the journalist, until refuted, is valid. If nobody is really questioning validity of it. Especially due to general sentiment backing such claim to much greater extent then to raise question over it.

My head hurts just reading these posts. I'll just wait for the final startlist and really learn if he starts or not.

Too easy.

 

[2WpK]

I wish they would ship him to Movistar.

 

[YavorD]

I wish they would ship him to Movistar.

They should've done it a year earlier and get Jorgenson as an exchange.