Juan Ayuso discussion thread

[Lequack]

He really is giving a well deserved finger to his team and teammates

I mean I'm not sure it's well deserved, but he's giving it.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1961451307140542599

View: https://x.com/TeamEmiratesUAE/status/1961451307140542599

 

[SafeBet]

WE BACK B*TCHES

 

[yaco]

Ayuso needs to learn to battle through when he having a bad day, as you will usually have one in a GT or otherwise, his GC is going nowhere.

 

[PetPaima]

The most mentally unstable top-level talent since Miguel Angel Lopez.

 

[Mayomaniac]

The most mentally unstable top-level talent since Miguel Angel Lopez.

He wishes he had the big climb ceiling of MAL!

 

[Valv.Piti]

Great stuff. Shape is quite good it seems, so should win one or two stages more and be able to help Almeida on the really big mountain stages.

Still acted like a baby yesterday, and he celebrated like a clown, but you can't deny the talent!

 

[Cycling111]

He really is giving a well deserved finger to his team and teammates

LOL

He's been a leader in GTs and several races. They couldn't give him more opportunities. He is the only cyclist who has never been a domestiquw on that team. Today they gave him preference over Jay Vine.

What's so bad about this? They granted all his wishes except for leading the Tour, which, as you can understand, is normal.

This victim narrative is ridiculous. He's been given every opportunity and facility. And these constant photos with Matxin are ridiculous. No one on the team has that kind of public support. Not even Pogacar is constantly receiving so many statements of support from the DS.

It would be interesting if you could describe those moments .

We can do a list with all the opportunities and support he received

 

[Ripper]

Great stuff. Shape is quite good it seems, so should win one or two stages more and be able to help Almeida on the really big mountain stages.

Still acted like a baby yesterday, and he celebrated like a clown, but you can't deny the talent!

Indeed!

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Mikkel Bjerg said to Danish television after today's stage that if Ayuso only thought he could perhaps finish 6th in GC, it was right for him to hunt stages instead. Still since he didn't even try yesterday he couldn't possibly know what his ceiling in this race was. If he actually had been able to finish 6th, which I very much doubt, it's pretty stupid to throw it away already in case other riders will be hit by bad luck later on.

 

[Berniece]

LOL

He's been a leader in GTs and several races. They couldn't give him more opportunities. He is the only cyclist who has never been a domestiquw on that team. Today they gave him preference over Jay Vine.

What's so bad about this? They granted all his wishes except for leading the Tour, which, as you can understand, is normal.

This victim narrative is ridiculous. He's been given every opportunity and facility. And these constant photos with Matxin are ridiculous. No one on the team has that kind of public support. Not even Pogacar is constantly receiving so many statements of support from the DS.

It would be interesting if you could describe those moments .

We can do a list with all the opportunities and support he received

They granted all his wishes that they were contractually obliged to give him. He’s an outsider in his team, I don’t expect him to perform to his fullest

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Jeez, it's tough to like this guy, as much as I try

 

[YavorD]

I felt sorry for Ayuso and I generally try to be a bit more level-headed towards him, but I think he tries in every possible way to prove me wrong.

Anyway, Almeida didn't really need his team in these stages, so the jury is still on, but I can totally see a situation where he is DNF or DNS before he's done a single pull.

 

[Red Rick]

Probably at least 1000 posts on this forum dedicated to flaming riders chasing that 8th place instead of trying to win a stage, now Ayuso is getting torched for doing that exact thing.

 

[YavorD]

Probably at least 1000 posts on this forum dedicated to flaming riders chasing that 8th place instead of trying to win a stage, now Ayuso is getting torched for doing that exact thing.

Ayuso isn't torched for that though.

 

[Cycling111]

Probably at least 1000 posts on this forum dedicated to flaming riders chasing that 8th place instead of trying to win a stage, now Ayuso is getting torched for doing that exact thing.

Riders of what level?

Riders who have been begging to lead the Vuelta for two years?
Riders who say they want to be the best in the world?

Let's not confuse things. It's one thing to ask that of second-tier riders who aspire to finish ninth or tenth, and another thing to ask of a rider who was the third favorite for this Vuelta and who demands to be the GT leader for the general classification.
For a rider like that, it's a failure to get into Marco Frigo's group.
Marco Frigo will be required to fight for stages instead of finishing ninth without being on television; for Ayuso, it's a failure. Unless you don't see Ayuso as a GT contender and a candidate for the Big 6 anymore. For a Big 6 candidate, being a rival to Marco Frigo is a failure. The best have to be rivals of the best from the general classification.

If that's the opinion, then we assume Ayuso's level is far from sufficient to lead. We're putting him on the same level as Marco Frigo or riders like Einer Rubio, who finished top 10 in the Giro and was expected to forget about a discret GC and win a stage.

What Ayuso has done is the easy thing to do. Not being a rival to the best cyclists in the GC and become a rival to second level riders. It's easier to win a stage this way than in a head-to-head with Vingegaard and Ciccone.

It would be very easy for Pogacar, or Vingegaard, to win more stages if they were 20 minutes behind in the GC and not competing with the best. They could win against Marco Frigo in the breakaways, like Jay Vine. Even Jay Vine is being urged to join another team and fight for the GC, but not Ayuso. With that opinion, you're devaluing him, admitting that he's not one of the greats and doesn't have to have the urge to try to rival Vingegaard in this Vuelta, even if it's in a 2 vs 1 with Almeida.
When he doesn't want to work on a Tour for Pogacar or on this Vuelta for Almeida, he'll have to be reminded that he's a stage cyclist, inferior status to those who sacrifice for the GC.

 

[ice&fire]

Ayuso needs to learn to battle through when he having a bad day, as you will usually have one in a GT or otherwise, his GC is going nowhere.

Go watch Vuelta 22, stage 4 and review your post accordingly

 

[Cycling111]

Go watch Vuelta 22, stage 4 and review your post accordingly

It would be better to review what some people said about Remco during the 2023 Vuelta Kuss won. For me, it was a failure. The man who should have been Visma's greatest rival ended up getting permission from Visma to win stages in consented breakaways.

That's a failure. Winning three stages like that is a success for Castrillo last year, or it would have been for Marco Frigo today.


How many stages would Pogacar win in a GT if he forgot about the GC?
Vingegaard didn't win a stage in the Tour. If he'd been half an hour behind like Arensmann, maybe he would have.

This is ultimately a huge failure for Ayuso. Someone who has spent two years demanding to be the leader at The Vuelta and wanting to be the best in the world, it's a failure that he isn't even a podium contender and has become a stages seeker like Jay Vine.
He'll be far superior in this and he´ll win 4 stages; the level of breakaways in the Vuelta this year is very low. It's the easy path for someone at his level, but he doesn't want to be beaten by Vingegaard and Almeida. Now he has the excuse that he didn't want to. When a cyclist, who demands so much leadership, keeps stringing together excuses in different GTs, it's a failure of his original purpose and diminishes the value of his demands.

Ayuso, who hopes to lead GT and become the best in the world, has Ciccone's permission to win stages in breakaways. Even if he wins four stages, that can't be seen as a success because he's lowered his standards to that of lower-level cyclists.
Even a post-accident Egan Bernal has more ambition to compete againts the best.

Ayuso still hasn't won a major race against any of the best cyclists. He even lost Volta Catalunya against 36-year Roglic, whose level has slipped. He demands to be a leader against the best but now he avoids it.

Those who most defended him as one of the best in the world now say it's okay for him to adopt the attitude of Fortunato and Frigo in this Vuelta. They lower the bar, but they want to convince you that it's okay for him to refuse to be domestique in a Tour for the best cyclist in the world and to generate constant conflicts with his team over leadership. How incoherence.

 

[CyclistAbi]

This has to be one of the biggest busts in terms of sports media/fandom narrative going south in recent years. Not only is Ayuso here to help secure Almeida overall victory, already did lions share at TTT, he then goes and wins a stage in dominate fashion, only a day after he is accused of being superb domestique, suddenly that being a bad thing, proclaimed by sporst media/fandom. Basically a backup narrative made up once the original narrative of him being the worst domestique fall to shambles.

Chapeau!

 

[bNator]

This has to be one of the biggest busts in terms of sports media/fandom narrative going south in recent years. Not only is Ayuso here to help secure Almeida overall victory, already did lions share at TTT, he then goes and wins a stage in dominate fashion, only a day after he is accused of being superb domestique, suddenly that being a bad thing, proclaimed by sporst media/fandom. Basically a backup narrative made up once the original narrative of him being the worst domestique fall to shambles.

Chapeau!

What on earth are you talking about? Terrible domestique is an understatement. Outside of last years Galibier he has yet to spin a pedal stroke for anyone but himself. I’m betting Jonas has done more domestique duty after his first Tour than Ayuso has in the same timeframe. Ok if the results were there, no problem. But they haven’t been for some time now.

But as you like to say. We’ll see. If he actually pulls for Joao… going for stage win glory doesn’t count as domestique work no matter how hard you try to spin it…

 

[CyclistAbi]

@bNator

I see, you are still hooked on the worst domestique possible narrative. It'll come around.

 

[Tim Cahill]

This has to be one of the biggest busts in terms of sports media/fandom narrative going south in recent years. Not only is Ayuso here to help secure Almeida overall victory, already did lions share at TTT, he then goes and wins a stage in dominate fashion, only a day after he is accused of being superb domestique, suddenly that being a bad thing, proclaimed by sporst media/fandom. Basically a backup narrative made up once the original narrative of him being the worst domestique fall to shambles.

Chapeau!

Good post I see you were paying attention to the crucial role he played in his teams results a few weeks ago, fetching bottles in San Sebastián before helping young Del Toro to victory the day after by thinning the group on the last climb. A humble man, a man of integrity!

 

[Alien Performance]

I've never been convinced that Ayuso can reach the top level and winning stages against Marco Frigo is not going to bring him to the level of Jonas, never mind Tadej

 

[CyclistAbi]

Good post I see you were paying attention to the crucial role he played in his teams results a few weeks ago, fetching bottles in San Sebastián before helping young Del Toro to victory the day after by thinning the group on the last climb. A humble man, a man of integrity!

AFAIR that was Rogla.

 

[SHAD0W93]

This has to be one of the biggest busts in terms of sports media/fandom narrative going south in recent years. Not only is Ayuso here to help secure Almeida overall victory, already did lions share at TTT, he then goes and wins a stage in dominate fashion, only a day after he is accused of being superb domestique, suddenly that being a bad thing, proclaimed by sporst media/fandom. Basically a backup narrative made up once the original narrative of him being the worst domestique fall to shambles.

Chapeau!

It takes a big man and amazing domestique to scout ahead of their leader for threats in order to make sure the coast is clear.

 

[yaco]

Riders of what level?

Riders who have been begging to lead the Vuelta for two years?
Riders who say they want to be the best in the world?

Let's not confuse things. It's one thing to ask that of second-tier riders who aspire to finish ninth or tenth, and another thing to ask of a rider who was the third favorite for this Vuelta and who demands to be the GT leader for the general classification.
For a rider like that, it's a failure to get into Marco Frigo's group.
Marco Frigo will be required to fight for stages instead of finishing ninth without being on television; for Ayuso, it's a failure. Unless you don't see Ayuso as a GT contender and a candidate for the Big 6 anymore. For a Big 6 candidate, being a rival to Marco Frigo is a failure. The best have to be rivals of the best from the general classification.

If that's the opinion, then we assume Ayuso's level is far from sufficient to lead. We're putting him on the same level as Marco Frigo or riders like Einer Rubio, who finished top 10 in the Giro and was expected to forget about a discret GC and win a stage.

What Ayuso has done is the easy thing to do. Not being a rival to the best cyclists in the GC and become a rival to second level riders. It's easier to win a stage this way than in a head-to-head with Vingegaard and Ciccone.

It would be very easy for Pogacar, or Vingegaard, to win more stages if they were 20 minutes behind in the GC and not competing with the best. They could win against Marco Frigo in the breakaways, like Jay Vine. Even Jay Vine is being urged to join another team and fight for the GC, but not Ayuso. With that opinion, you're devaluing him, admitting that he's not one of the greats and doesn't have to have the urge to try to rival Vingegaard in this Vuelta, even if it's in a 2 vs 1 with Almeida.
When he doesn't want to work on a Tour for Pogacar or on this Vuelta for Almeida, he'll have to be reminded that he's a stage cyclist, inferior status to those who sacrifice for the GC.

I am the one suggesting that Vine should move teams to ride the TDF. However, I have never suggested he should ride for GC. Stop inventing facts.