Juan Ayuso discussion thread

[bNator]

They could, but they're not, which is exactly my point.

You can’t be comparing those guys with Ayuso… I mean I know you remember McNulty being a domestique of the year in Hautacam stage in 2022, take Yates in 2023 and last year. Ok Soler has his moments but come on. Ayuso will not do a pedal stroke for a living soul. In fact, he’d rather be kicked out of the race and out of the team than doing so. It’s borderline sick….

 

[AlpRaid]

...and I thought I could not dislike a rider in the present peloton more than Quinn Simmons...

how wrong I was.

 

[Red Rick]

You can’t be comparing those guys with Ayuso… I mean I know you remember McNulty being a domestique of the year in Hautacam stage in 2022, take Yates in 2023 and last year. Ok Soler has his moments but come on. Ayuso will not do a pedal stroke for a living soul. In fact, he’d rather be kicked out of the race and out of the team than doing so. It’s borderline sick….

Stuck around in the Giro didn't he? Until he could no longer go.

People are consistently projecting the story they want to believe. Or if other UAE riders don't help each other it's just a meme. When Ayuso does it he's the worst guy in the peloton. Van Aert attacks when Vingegaard is dropped in an echelon, and Van Aert is suddenly too *** great to be a domestique.

Riders aren't being judged based on the action but based on the narrative that surrounds them.

 

[topcat]

What is team UAE instructing Ayuso to do?

 

[bNator]

Stuck around in the Giro didn't he? Until he could no longer go.

People are consistently projecting the story they want to believe. Or if other UAE riders don't help each other it's just a meme. When Ayuso does it he's the worst guy in the peloton. Van Aert attacks when Vingegaard is dropped in an echelon, and Van Aert is suddenly too *** great to be a domestique.

Riders aren't being judged based on the action but based on the narrative that surrounds them.

Which in turn is based on their actions. Take Roglic. The narrative is he crashes a lot due to either poor bike handling or poor positioning. Whenever he crashes, he’s judged much harsher than riders who are not surrounded by the narrative. However, the narrative did not just emerge out of thing air. He does crash a lot and often it is his poor positioning to the extent that even when it’s not, he takes the blame.

Well same goes for Ayuso. He is being watched carefully by the public precisely because he is known to be a *** teammate. A sentiment which ironically, he is now reinforcing.

You are telling others they are forming their opinion based on narrative - are you sure you are not forming your opinion just to counter the narrative and ignoring the facts while doing so?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

What is team UAE instructing Ayuso to do?

Ask not what Ayuso can do for your country, ask what your country can do for Ayuso.

 

[Cycling111]

OMG, did he really say his legs hurt? Yesterday he finished in the last six of the stage.
This goes beyond selfishness. He's also making statements that seem like a joke.

He's getting paid by a team. He should show respect . At least a little.

 

[Ripper]

Almeida had the support he needed, in riders like Tom Pidcock.

Pidcock, leading from behind

 

[Ripper]

I was hoping to be wrong about him, but today was really sad. Easy day yesterday, rest day tomorrow, and he couldn't even be bothered to help a bit.

I just wonder who would want to have him as a teammate.

Right?! It's like, let's sign him up so everyone can feel like they play second or third fiddle.

I really do hope he goes to Lidl, because that just won't fly there. Then we can find out how much of this is a UAE thing, or an Ayuso thing.

The team dynamics must be outstanding right now

 

[Ripper]

He's just saving his energy so that he can do a job for Almeida later in the race.

How is he supposed to know something would happen? Ameida didn't expect anything either.

Is that a joke?

 

[Ripper]

Maybe he's riding like this to make UAE accept the offer from Trek? Basically enhancing his own chances of success short term and long term. That would make sense to me, but its still very much a douche move. I wonder how the rest of his teammates think about him, Vine basically didn't contest on stage 7 that he won and Almeida is rightfully annoyed.

To the bolded - I greatly wonder this as well.

 

[Red Rick]

Is that a joke?

It's the only good reason to be that far back. It's the kinder interpretation of his action too, because the alternative is that he's simply a moron. And then I get accused of unfairly crapping on riders again.

 

[Ripper]

What is team UAE instructing Ayuso to do?

I'd like to know what they instruct any of their riders to do.

 

[Gratemans]

I'd like to know what they instruct any of their riders to do.

I'd like to know if they instruct them at all

 

[Ripper]

OMG, did he really say his legs hurt? Yesterday he finished in the last six of the stage.
This goes beyond selfishness. He's also making statements that seem like a joke.

He's getting paid by a team. He should show respect . At least a little.

Here's the funny thing. Be around Almeida and try to pull for, like, 5-10 seconds. Then drop like a stone and claim your legs hurt and your not sure what is going on with your recovery. He still looks bad(ish) given he won a couple of days ago, etc., but it mitigates it a whole bunch. Instead, he just looks completely ambivalent. And with all the eyes on him now, that just won't do.

 

[Brullnux]

I find it quite easy to not like him.

He's a pantomime villain in a sport lacking such characters. I would obviously never want him in my team, but luckily I'm a fan and not a professional, so I can sit back and enjoy the drama that unfolds.

 

[Ripper]

It's the only good reason to be that far back. It's the kinder interpretation of his action too, because the alternative is that he's simply a moron. And then I get accused of unfairly crapping on riders again.

The fact that they had no idea that something was going to happen at the base of a final climb, and thus were both poorly positioned, actually makes them both morons. Just Ayuso also looks like a shyte teammate.

 

[Ripper]

I'd like to know if they instruct them at all

I think you are wise to their (non) tactical nous!

 

[Red Rick]

The fact that they had no idea that something was going to happen at the base of a final climb, and thus were both poorly positioned, actually makes them both morons. Just Ayuso also looks like a shyte teammate.

Nah domestiques save themselves on such stages all the time.

I think the interesting thing is actually the main argument is he should have been shown "trying" with no expectation whatsoever that it would be any important contribution.

 

[Brullnux]

And Ayuso is not a team player. He'd be a terrible fit for Lidl Trek.

This is a good point, actually. There seems to be an agreement/spirit within the team where nobody is too good or protected to work for others. They have four leaders in the team, and in the past two years we have seen Pedersen ride for Ciccone, Ciccone lead out Pedersen, Skjelmose help out here and there, and Milan put in sacrificial work in the classics for Mads.

It is unlikely Ayuso will ever do that – though maybe if he is promised full GC leadership he would help out teammates who aren't fighting the same battle as him. I wonder if Lidl's desire for a GC candidate outweighs him not really fitting the current ethos of the team

 

[Ripper]

Nah domestiques save themselves on such stages all the time.

I think the interesting thing is actually the main argument is he should have been shown "trying" with no expectation whatsoever that it would be any important contribution.

A team like UAE has no real excuse for not being prepared. I mean, basically that is what VLAB and other teams would be looking for - UAE being inattentive, which they would then try to exploit.

And when you are being watched for being a crap teammate, I think showing you are trying becomes a touch more important.

Edit - I mean, at this point, he is less useful that Soler. Soler!!!!!

 

[Ripper]

This is a good point, actually. There seems to be an agreement/spirit within the team where nobody is too good or protected to work for others. They have four leaders in the team, and in the past two years we have seen Pedersen ride for Ciccone, Ciccone lead out Pedersen, Skjelmose help out here and there, and Milan put in sacrificial work in the classics for Mads.

It is unlikely Ayuso will ever do that – though maybe if he is promised full GC leadership he would help out teammates who aren't fighting the same battle as him. I wonder if Lidl's desire for a GC candidate outweighs him not really fitting the current ethos of the team

I think if he goes to Lidl then we will get a clearer sense of how he is as a teammate I don't think the selfish behaviour would fly there at all. And if he does go that direction, I think his world tour days are numbered (unless he can back it up with huge wins from the get go)

 

[Brullnux]

I think if he goes to Lidl then we will get a clearer sense of how he is as a teammate I don't think the selfish behaviour would fly there at all. And if he does go that direction, I think his world tour days are numbered (unless he can back it up with huge wins from the get go)

Yeah, I think Ayuso is more likely to help someone in a race he can't win than in a race he wants to be leader in. That's the sense I get. If I were to really psychoanalyse him, I think there's an insecurity when he falls short of his own expectations that makes him tap out mentally, and without the kind of superego telling him that people won't like him for behaving in that way. So I don't think he'd refuse to help Ciccone or Pedersen in a one day race, but he would refuse to help Ciccone go for GC.

 

[Tim Cahill]

He's a pantomime villain in a sport lacking such characters. I would obviously never want him in my team, but luckily I'm a fan and not a professional, so I can sit back and enjoy the drama that unfolds.

Yeah exactly, providing a bit of entertainment/comic relief to what otherwise promises to be a rather dreary edition.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1962169134063460673

 

[Gratemans]

^this one actually made me spit out some of my beer