Zorotheslacker
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What is wrong with mileage?DirtyWorks said:...I've checked out the Strava pages of some Thom Wiesel sponsored Juniors in the recent past and was seeing (IMHO) waaaaay too many hours in the saddle.
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What is wrong with mileage?DirtyWorks said:...I've checked out the Strava pages of some Thom Wiesel sponsored Juniors in the recent past and was seeing (IMHO) waaaaay too many hours in the saddle.
Zorotheslacker said:How do we know what a kid is taking or not? I do not think all MRI kids take all MRI products.
I struggle to think what you would give a teen - say 15-16 to make them better. Testosterone? It drips off of them right now anyway. EPO - maybe, but for what races? HGH - weight is an issue. Caffeine - 50mg seems good. The stuff that is illegal for adults may not help kids at all.
All the parents know each other. The biggest changes I see year to year come from growth and training and natural development. some kids are getting too big and others are not growing enough. I just don't see these supplements as an issue. Maybe training time vs. school. That is an issue.
Well thanks for that. I'm not convinced the bulk from Steroids would help as much in boys outside of crits. I guess it might. In girls I have no doubt.D-Queued said:Oh, contrare: "(Anabolic Steroid) effects in females and adolescent males are dramatic. In mature male swimmers, AAS effects are markedly reduced. These are still the drugs chosen by modern-day cheaters and cheating nations in swimming."
Moreover, HGH is a known abused substance among teenage basketball players.
How about Ritalin = amphetamines?
Seems cycling has been one sport promoted for those who suffer from ADHD. It wouldn't be possible that someone concerned about an ADHD condition might want to use some? You know, just to be safe?
Maybe some for their friends too?
Dave.
Zorotheslacker said:I still don't know why we think Juniors are taking any UCI banned substances.
Zorotheslacker said:There were no charts. Its hard to compare Jrs that started age little to adults. In the 80s when I raced there were no 9-18 year olds (groups of them) riding.
BigBoat said:I'm confused what you mean by this, in the 1980s where I come from Junior fields were very large compared to where Junior fields are now...
Race Radio said:Exactly. Junior fields in the U.S. during the 80's were far bigger then now.....if there even is a junior field now, most of the time there are not even jr races
That is good input. I can't remember racing with any. In the 80s there were a few 40+ and many 20s and 30s.BigBoat said:I'm confused what you mean by this, in the 1980s where I come from Junior fields were very large compared to where Junior fields are now...
D-Queued said:Oh, contrare: "(Anabolic Steroid) effects in females and adolescent males are dramatic. In mature male swimmers, AAS effects are markedly reduced. These are still the drugs chosen by modern-day cheaters and cheating nations in swimming."
Moreover, HGH is a known abused substance among teenage basketball players.
How about Ritalin = amphetamines?
Seems cycling has been one sport promoted for those who suffer from ADHD. It wouldn't be possible that someone concerned about an ADHD condition might want to use some? You know, just to be safe?
Maybe some for their friends too?
Dave.
jamie burrow WR for Plataeu de Beille still stands i think. he beat PAntanis record, and beat Thor in the tt in the u23 Ronde l'Izard during which he set the climbing record. And Thor won the u23 World tt that year! thats some crazy soignuers with hypodermics at that italian amateur team. amateur team. pro doping.Race Radio said:Di Lucca started doping at 16. His family doctor helped him. While not as bad as it used to be the Italian U23 scene was insane in the 00's
blackcat said:jamie burrow WR for Plataeu de Beille still stands i think. he beat PAntanis record, and beat Thor in the tt in the u23 Ronde l'Izard during which he set the climbing record. And Thor won the u23 World tt that year! thats some crazy soignuers with hypodermics at that italian amateur team. amateur team. pro doping.
genevieve jeanson started at 16. so did oscar sevilla. Many swimmers, especially females, are starting this young, if they demonstrate the talent ofcourse. armstrong in triathlon, about 16 +/- a year.
blackcat said:Many swimmers, especially females, are starting this young, if they demonstrate the talent ofcourse....
BS. See the Swiss coach, or German, who coaches the champion sprinters. and the other ones from Brisbane. will all be on some IGF or growth factorpeterst6906 said:No they all aren't. That's a baseless accusation and complete rubbish.
blackcat said:BS. See the Swiss coach, or German, who coaches the champion sprinters. and the other ones from Brisbane. will all be on some IGF or growth factor
Michele said:I can't talk for other Countries, but in Italy doping at junior level is well known to be a fact; of course not all the guys do it but a big part.
What pìss me off is that VERY often the ones pushing the kids to take drugs are their own parents.
If you're doubtfull at why junior guys should be doping, just lemme mention that already at junior level things are quite high (Im talking of pre-U23 category) and the big guys get contracts for around 1.000euro a month which is almost on par as the average paycheck for the average italian worker.
Did I say that? I think I said the bulk would not help a developing Jr. except maybe in crits. I scoped it to 18 and under. You know, the kinds fighting acne due to their own testosterone production system. Certainly the best performing juniors, those on the teams pointed to (MRI, Specialized, Slipstream), are not bulky. They are also not the biggest crit winners either.therhodeo said:So according to Zoro:
-Only bulky people like sprinters can benefit from steroids..
You think Junior bike racers have the same drug rate use as HS kids? As pointed out many are not going to regular HS.therhodeo said:-Some junior racers take drugs but only the recreational kind and not at the rate their non athlete friends do.
Do you know of a USA cycling Junior that has failed a drug test?therhodeo said:-He knows of no juniors who's ever failed a drug test.
Who in the USA? Since I know of none and you imply you do - who?therhodeo said:Your naivete in regards to teens, ignorance in regards to doping, and lack of understanding as to what makes real evidence makes for a pretty enormous blind spot.
You are addressing two issues:TrackCynic said:...kids (and I'm talking 12-18 ages) should be with LOCAL teams where they can be mentored by local riders and coaches who have a real world grounding, not masters from the dope-ridden world of pro-cycling.
BTW, no USAC junior I know of has been caught doping. But I've also never seen doping controls in 99% of USA junior races I've been to. Same goes for age-checking.
Zorotheslacker said:Do you know of a USA cycling Junior that has failed a drug test?
Let's ask Heroin users about their drug use while we're at it. Because, no one will judge.Zorotheslacker said:Who in the USA? Since I know of none and you imply you do - who?
This is ignoring any/every argument and demanding some kind of proof that only you agree qualifies. Why don't you just state what would be sufficient evidence of Juniors doping. Fair warning, that will be torn to bits shortly thereafter.Zorotheslacker said:What is the "real evidence" for USA juniors taking drugs.
I didn't really get any answer from that. I think the USA kids are not doping and you think they are.DirtyWorks said:I'm being very charitable and letting you know the "Never tested positive" defense does not work. At all.
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Zorotheslacker said:I didn't really get any answer from that. I think the USA kids are not doping and you think they are.
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