JV reaches out to anonymous critic.

[BotanyBay]

THAT utterly blew my mind!

That move then subsequently burst my bubble when it came to his parents (whom I used to respect very much). They're either naive or they're complicit.

 

[Anonymous]

Just so you know, the posts were made when it was 1:25am for me - I was asleep. When I went to look at the offending post just now they had been appropriately edited by the person that wrote them.

In the circumstances, if he does it again in this thread I will be adding a day to whatever suspension is handed down.

Well you should add a day to nothing then, cos suspending someone for what he said, especially in the context of some peoples overwhelming yet cleverly non-confrontational aggression in this thread, is frankly stupid.

Im amazed this thread is still going, especially with BPC now adding to the stupidity.

 

[JRTinMA]

That move then subsequently burst my bubble when it came to his parents (whom I used to respect very much). They're either naive or they're complicit.

What are you suggesting they are complicit in?

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

That move then subsequently burst my bubble when it came to his parents (whom I used to respect very much). They're either naive or they're complicit.

I have a really hard time thinking poorly of parents when I don't know the inner workings of their lives with their children.

I can't see them being naive, nor can see them being okay with their kid being exposed to the dark side of the force (to borrow your metaphor).

Maybe he was offered a long-term deal that was so sweet he couldn't refuse, coupled with some binding legal niceties from his parents.

Or... Maybe I'm naive and complicit in being an idiot...

 

[flicker]

That move then subsequently burst my bubble when it came to his parents (whom I used to respect very much). They're either naive or they're complicit.

Sorry BB this is pro-cycling. I am sure Phinney will be ridingSTrONG for BMC.
Don't blame his folks Phinney is past the age of consent.

 

[Ferminal]

Ok, so what would you say if I argue that Discovery/Postal is just as clean or cleaner because they hardly ever had any positives?

Given the history of the sport and the excellent reasons to dope, shouldn't the burden of proof rest with those making the assertion of cleanliness? Can you give concrete positive reasons to believe riders are more likely to be clean on Garmin then other teams?

I agree, whilst I'm not going to openly slam them, I'm not willing to accept all the proclamations of cleanliness just because JV is a nice guy. Every ProTour team is clean, every ProTour team is dirty, no one really knows. What we do know is that there are lot of dopers, and very few ProTour riders testing positive. We know how "easy" it is to avoid testing positive.

JV is no different from any other manager/DS/rider suggesting that they are clean, we simply don't know. For all we know JV genuinely believes his team is clean but behind his back there are a few who knew what they had to do to be competitive.

So whilst others might be happy to take JV for his word, I hope they can also accept that some of us feel we have valid reasons to remain skeptical.

 

[BotanyBay]

I have a really hard time thinking poorly of parents when I don't know the inner workings of their lives with their children.

I can't see them being naive, nor can see them being okay with their kid being exposed to the dark side of the force (to borrow your metaphor).

Maybe he was offered a long-term deal that was so sweet he couldn't refuse, coupled with some binding legal niceties from his parents.

Or... Maybe I'm naive and complicit in being an idiot...

2 years as opposed to one year. And he made a huge deal about having security. But I guess when you're 20, having a job for 2 years is security these days. Probably a lot more secure than The Shack.

They sent him to Och. Either Davis is stupid or he thinks it's OK. If he thinks it's OK, then he's complicit.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I agree, whilst I'm not going to openly slam them, I'm not willing to accept all the proclamations of cleanliness just because JV is a nice guy. Every ProTour team is clean, every ProTour team is dirty, no one really knows. What we do know is that there are lot of dopers, and very few ProTour riders testing positive. We know how "easy" it is to avoid testing positive.

JV is no different from any other manager/DS/rider suggesting that they are clean, we simply don't know. For all we know JV genuinely believes his team is clean but behind his back there are a few who knew what they had to do to be competitive.

So whilst others might be happy to take JV for his word, I hope they can also accept that some of us feel we have valid reasons to remain skeptical.

Well I certainly don't take JV (or anyone else) at "their word', nor have I problem with others remaining sceptical, as I am too - in particular Wiggans in 2009 and with the attempted signing of Contador.

That is why I check in to the team, all the support staff and check what they say against what they do.

But 'Ludwig' appeared to have more definitive information which is why I asked. Ultimatley he has some suspicions on riders which he is entitled to, and I am entitled to disagree.

 

[D-Queued]

The bolded is what I've heard from guys on the road. Maybe he's just growing up as a cyclist...

As to his cleanliness, unfortunately you're often painted with the same brush as those whose company you keep. Dirty teams is right...

Fact: At least one year that VdV was with USPS he was clean.
Speculation: Likely the only one

Dave.

 

[tifosa]

JV has credibility because he put his money where his mouth is and set up a team that has an environment where you are not forced to dope.

JV has an air of credibility because he has shown some public transparency about setting up a team than has an environment where you are not forced to dope.

But that's all we know. No positives that we know of. No one being forced to dope--but that doesn't preclude that doping is no longer an option--after all, a rider's blood is monitored for inconsistencies which may indicate levels consistent with doping... and then what, maybe that rider doesn't race?

There are a lot of shades of gray, and JV is but one of those shades. Who would know better how to manipulate the system than someone who has a vested interest in the outcome?

Still, JV has NO obligation to divulge what he knows here. He knows professional suicide when he sees it. Generally, it's best not to kill your current job until you have a new one in sight (but I bet JV's exploring all his options).

 

[buckwheat]

It is a very nice place to live. That must be it. There are lots of farmacias, too.

Hola!

So when is JV gonna keep it real!

 

[tubularglue]

i thought this thread was about JV

 

[buckwheat]

i thought this thread was about JV

He gave me an open invite to Walsh, Kimmage, and Howman/WADA.

I asked JV for the contact info a few days ago via Private Message and haven't heard back.

 

[BotanyBay]

He gave me an open invite to Walsh, Kimmage, and Howman/WADA.

I asked JV for the contact info a few days ago via Private Message and haven't heard back.

You can probably converse with all three of them without the aid of JV. They're just regular guys with jobs. I used to regularly exchange emails with **** Pound. Usually it was me asking him to curb his public opinions, as I felt he was doing more harm than good. But he usually wrote back. WADA: Easy. Times of London?: Easy. Walsh? Try his publisher.

 

[Martin318is]

When I get a chance I am going to split out most of the last 30 posts into their own thread.

However, until I do - this is a JV thread. If you can't keep on that topic then don't post in it.

 

[hrotha]

When I get a chance I am going to split out most of the last 30 posts into their own thread.

However, until I do - this is a JV thread. If you can't keep on that topic then don't post in it.

The discussion about Girona stems from the fact that Garmin riders live there. We're discussing the validity of Girona as a base for a clean team. I don't see how this isn't about JV just because we're not mentioning him in every post.

 

[Martin318is]

There were 19 posts that had NOTHING to do with JV whatsoever. It was a very generic conversation about any American team deciding to base themselves in Spain. The longer it went the less interest there was in discussing it from the Garmin perspective - let alone the JV perspective.

It was very clearly a topic all to itself. In fact, your own post #20 in that thread demonstrates this point quite simply

On with the disection of JV!

 

[bike_framed]

You can probably converse with all three of them without the aid of JV. They're just regular guys with jobs. I used to regularly exchange emails with **** Pound. Usually it was me asking him to curb his public opinions, as I felt he was doing more harm than good. But he usually wrote back. WADA: Easy. Times of London?: Easy. Walsh? Try his publisher.

A few years ago I had an e-mail exchange with someone from the National Hockey League. All I did was send an e-mail to various combinations of his name @nhl.com and he replied.

Still, unless they have asked him not to, JV should give you the contact info as he said he would.

 

[buckwheat]

You can probably converse with all three of them without the aid of JV. They're just regular guys with jobs. I used to regularly exchange emails with **** Pound. Usually it was me asking him to curb his public opinions, as I felt he was doing more harm than good. But he usually wrote back. WADA: Easy. Times of London?: Easy. Walsh? Try his publisher.

It's not that I want to do detective work, or ask Kimmage or Walsh to do their jobs for free. As the next poster points out;

A few years ago I had an e-mail exchange with someone from the National Hockey League. All I did was send an e-mail to various combinations of his name @nhl.com and he replied.

Still, unless they have asked him not to, JV should give you the contact info as he said he would.

Which leads to the question, why did JV feel the need to respond to me in the first place?

Was it the name calling? Or, did he dislike being unfavorably compared to ordinary people who did speak out and changed the world from far less powerful/influential positions than the one he currently holds?

So, it's been a week, JV has clarified nothing. How much longer should it be until the extent of the doping situation is clarified JV?

Or was JV's strategy steam control?

We're waiting.

 

[tubularglue]

i am thinking for a number of reason

he pays for advertising on the site
you called him spineless
most companies that advertise (the biggest companies)have a vested interest on how they are percieved on this forum


and, oh yeah, a lot of people read this forum

 

[BotanyBay]

Which leads to the question, why did JV feel the need to respond to me in the first place?

....

So, it's been a week, JV has clarified nothing. How much longer should it be until the extent of the doping situation is clarified JV?

Or was JV's strategy steam control?

We're waiting.

As I said before... JV is now the "good cop" of professional cycling in regards to doping controversy. You were "managed". Call it stream control, damage control, etc. Really, it's more of an attempt at opinion control. TDF riders are used to seeing guys dressed as syringes running next to them on mountain stages. Do they stop and engage? Hardly. At worst, they "help them to the ground" as Lance did at the TOC.

I don't think JV was just "passing by". He's just not used to seeing more than 1 person at a time thinking he's getting to be FOS.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

It's not that I want to do detective work, or ask Kimmage or Walsh to do their jobs for free. As the next poster points out;



Which leads to the question, why did JV feel the need to respond to me in the first place?

Was it the name calling? Or, did he dislike being unfavorably compared to ordinary people who did speak out and changed the world from far less powerful/influential positions than the one he currently holds?

So, it's been a week, JV has clarified nothing. How much longer should it be until the extent of the doping situation is clarified JV?

Or was JV's strategy steam control?

We're waiting.

He appeared to explain that in his first post to the OP - he felt that much of the critisim was unwarranted and that 'we' should do some more research and get our information correct.

Also a quick look at his profile shows JV has not been 'active' here since last Wednesday (the 10th).

 

[BotanyBay]

i am thinking for a number of reason

he pays for advertising on the site
you called him spineless
most companies that advertise (the biggest companies)have a vested interest on how they are percieved on this forum


and, oh yeah, a lot of people read this forum

HE pays for advertising on this site, or some of his SPONSORS do? He's got his own business to run. Meanwhile Garmin is trying to sell bike computers. It's possible they might frequent the same places at times.

 

[tubularglue]

I was thinking by the bike donation, as advertising.

and yes all the satellite businesses associated with his team.

sorry

 

[buckwheat]

He appeared to explain that in his first post to the OP - he felt that much of the critisim was unwarranted and that 'we' should do some more research and get our information correct.

Also a quick look at his profile shows JV has not been 'active' here since last Wednesday (the 10th).

He PM'd me on the 9th.

With each passing day that the situation persists regarding doping in Pro Cycling, the criticism of JV becomes more warranted IMHO.

Then he will do the steam control and manage the situation again.

The main reason put forth by others was that JV wouldn't speak up was that it would hurt his career.

I think that was thoroughly debunked and the criticism of JV is valid.

I would also actively discourage people from buying the brands he and his team endorse, as I've done with LA, because of his stance on this issue.