JV talks, sort of

[Froome19]

Did you see the single day testing he applied to a French rider - who had a cloud of suspicion over his results - to determine said rider was clean?

Why does Navardauskas have a cloud of suspicion over his results?

 

[JV1973]

Did you see the single day testing he applied to a French rider - who had a cloud of suspicion over his results - to determine said rider was clean?

One single day's testing and *tick* clean, was applied. A joke of a protocol.

Far easier to believe it was *tick* full appearance of clean.

That's a gross misunderstanding of the protocol and the context in which it was used.

Again, you undermine yourself with lack of knowledge. It would be best if you studied a bit on the topics at hand before commenting, and not just pulling up out of context quotes and playing "gotcha!"... There are intelligent people who post here and people who genuinely are looking for solutions. Don't undermine them or their intentions. It's just poor form.

 

[Netserk]

Hi JV.

What is the team's ambition for tour de Med?

 

[JV1973]

Hi JV.

What is the team's ambition for tour de Med?

Win the overall. I might be a bit optimistic, as we tend to get off to a slow start, but I'm hoping.

 

[Netserk]

Win the overall. I might be a bit optimistic, as we tend to get off to a slow start, but I'm hoping.

With Talansky or someone else?

Who from your team do you expect to have a big breakthrough this year?

Cheers.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

That's a gross misunderstanding of the protocol and the context in which it was used.

Again, you undermine yourself with lack of knowledge. It would be best if you studied a bit on the topics at hand before commenting, and not just pulling up out of context quotes and playing "gotcha!"... There are intelligent people who post here and people who genuinely are looking for solutions. Don't undermine them or their intentions. It's just poor form.

What DO you expect from Navardauskas in the future? Kinda like his riding, still not buying your shirts though...

[My Z shirt still fits]

 

[Eyeballs Out]

JV, can I ask how feasible you think it is to contend for both the Giro and the Tour currently ? Any different now compared with the height of the EPO era ?

You probably have a better idea than most about how Ryder was going in last year's Tour and what result seemed achievable before he was taken out in that big pile up. Was he showing any signs of fatigue up to that point ?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Did you see the single day testing he applied to a French rider - who had a cloud of suspicion over his results - to determine said rider was clean?

One single day's testing and *tick* clean, was applied. A joke of a protocol.

Far easier to believe it was *tick* full appearance of clean.

That's a gross misunderstanding of the protocol and the context in which it was used.

Again, you undermine yourself with lack of knowledge. It would be best if you studied a bit on the topics at hand before commenting, and not just pulling up out of context quotes and playing "gotcha!"... There are intelligent people who post here and people who genuinely are looking for solutions. Don't undermine them or their intentions. It's just poor form.

Bahahahahhahahahahaa...

Good on you, JV, play the "you don't know, you need to study" card. Again. Good one. Clap clap clap. I don't know wtf you are talking about here, because what you said (in the post I will copy below) flies in the face of logic and rational thinking.

Why don't you tell us all about 15W for 7 hours is 1000 calories of savings again, that was at your Ted talk, remember?

I asked you a bunch of questions about this "test" that you did when you posted about it, about how the heck you can use it as an example of proving someone who is clean, and about the rider in question's history (teams, etc) but you either didn't see all the questions or chose to ignore them.

Whatever.

If there's anyone that has the slightest critical thinking capacity and is not yet prepared to accept JV's instant dismissal of my claims (that JV says his test proves the rider is clean), here is the original post, in all its glorious paucity of rigorous, scientific believability for proving someone is clean:

[Ed: my notes]

Ive spoken to all my riders regards to their past. Not sure why you'd think otherwise?

Here's a story about Ramunas Navardauskas:

So, this kid was winning everything in the u23 ranks in france. So, what happens? everyone says he's doping. I decide to find out for myself.

So, I tell him that at some point I'm going to need to see him in girona, to chat, but I don't know when. I wait until he wins a fairly big race, send him a plane ticket and say "you need to be here tomorrow to talk"...

[Ed: here's the protocol to prove "everyone says he's doping" wrong:]

1. He arrives. [Ed: off a plane - you know, dehydrating device]
1. Immediately off the plane we give him a blood and urine test. [Ed; no mention of waiting 2 hours to stabilise, no hydration post-plane trip, just BAM blood and urine test]
2. Then wait 4 hours, have lunch, chat, etc....
3. Then do a very extensive and long power test which focuses on lactate metabolism over vo2 max.
4. Then another blood/urine test. [Ed; again, no mention of waiting 2 hours to stabilise (WADA guidelines stipulate this for blood tests), just BAM blood and urine test]

Results? Consistent 40% hematocrit, no traces of anything in urine. Power test reached 6w/kg. won a race the day before....

5. triangulation of
a. physiological testing,
b. hematological testing, [Ed; 2 tests on one day is all JV has mentioned] and
c. same time frame as race result would lead one to the conclusion that the guy was just really talented. [Ed; ie NOT doping. AFTER ONE DAY OF TESTING.]

That's how you weed out BS performers in the conti/u23 ranks.

It cracks me up to listen to all these conti riders *****ing about how they were robbed by doping. Believe me, none of them, not one, would come close to Ramunas' test results. I get tired of guys that max out a 4.75w/kg saying they could have been great if they chose to dope, but their morals kept them from doing it. Sorry, but I doubt a guy that has a 4.75w/kg engine ever gets presented with the choice of doping, because no one would bother. So, we can't really say what their decision would have been.

Now, a guy like Darren Baker? Or Bassons? Or Scott Mercier? That's different. Those guys tested like race horses and had the correct physiology, but they were mediocre (not bad) at the top level because of prevalent doping. They were robbed. Absolutely.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Still waiting for evidence - anything - to prove "everyone tested high at the start of the 2012 Giro", JV.

How about it?

Didn't you mention Rossi in there somewhere, and a bunch of other team's doctors?

Not a single corroboration of your claim. Not a one.

What should I study to help me understand this claim?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Still waiting for evidence - anything - to prove "everyone tested high at the start of the 2012 Giro", JV.

How about it?

Didn't you mention Rossi in there somewhere, and a bunch of other team's doctors?

Not a single corroboration of your claim. Not a one.

What should I study to help me understand this claim?

Evidence, eh?

Have you anything, anything at all (even a rumour) to suggest that it is untrue that "everyone tested high at the start of the 2012 Giro"?

 

[skidmark]

If there's anyone that has the slightest critical thinking capacity and is not yet prepared to accept JV's instant dismissal of my claims (that JV says his test proves the rider is clean), here is the original post, in all its glorious paucity of rigorous, scientific believability for proving someone is clean:

[Ed: my notes]

You seem to be suggesting that you've studied this stuff extensively. I haven't. Could you explain to me why you wouldn't get a good impression as to whether someone was doping after a day of rigorous testing? Could you elaborate as to why you are saying he should have waited 2 hours? Could you elaborate as to what you think IS a good thing to do in a short time frame to assess whether someone is or isn't doping, beyond/instead of what was outlined in JV's comments? I'm interested in your ideas, but I don't really know what they are.

 

[JV1973]

Still waiting for evidence - anything - to prove "everyone tested high at the start of the 2012 Giro", JV.

How about it?

Didn't you mention Rossi in there somewhere, and a bunch of other team's doctors?

Not a single corroboration of your claim. Not a one.

What should I study to help me understand this claim?

Francesa.Rossi@Uci.ch

Go ask her, hot shot.

oh wait.... you're an idiot without the courage to even ask the question.

No respect. None.

 

[JV1973]

Bahahahahhahahahahaa...

Good on you, JV, play the "you don't know, you need to study" card. Again. Good one. Clap clap clap. I don't know wtf you are talking about here, because what you said (in the post I will copy below) flies in the face of logic and rational thinking.

Why don't you tell us all about 15W for 7 hours is 1000 calories of savings again, that was at your Ted talk, remember?

I asked you a bunch of questions about this "test" that you did when you posted about it, about how the heck you can use it as an example of proving someone who is clean, and about the rider in question's history (teams, etc) but you either didn't see all the questions or chose to ignore them.

Whatever.

If there's anyone that has the slightest critical thinking capacity and is not yet prepared to accept JV's instant dismissal of my claims (that JV says his test proves the rider is clean), here is the original post, in all its glorious paucity of rigorous, scientific believability for proving someone is clean:


What is so exceptional about a skin suit providing a 15w advantage? Have you ever been to wind tunnel? I didn't think so.

I stick by that comment. Happy to prove it to you. Come on out to the wind tunnel.

Again: You don't have knowledge of the topics you speak about. That would fit, fairly well, with the definition of an idiot.

 

[JV1973]

JV, can I ask how feasible you think it is to contend for both the Giro and the Tour currently ? Any different now compared with the height of the EPO era ?

You probably have a better idea than most about how Ryder was going in last year's Tour and what result seemed achievable before he was taken out in that big pile up. Was he showing any signs of fatigue up to that point ?

Ryder was actually showing high power to weight and better form in the 7 days before the Tour, than he was before the Giro. Whether or not his form would have held for the entire length of the Tour? I don't know. No one does.

Dear Wiggo, this was clearly due to massive doping and plutonium fueled booster packs secretly implanted into his kidneys by Keebler elf surgeons. I know this will be believable for you, so I mentioned it.


JV

 

[BroDeal]

Bahahahahhahahahahaa...

Good on you, JV, play the "you don't know, you need to study" card. Again. Good one. Clap clap clap. I don't know wtf you are talking about here, because what you said (in the post I will copy below) flies in the face of logic and rational thinking.

Why don't you tell us all about 15W for 7 hours is 1000 calories of savings again, that was at your Ted talk, remember?

I asked you a bunch of questions about this "test" that you did when you posted about it, about how the heck you can use it as an example of proving someone who is clean, and about the rider in question's history (teams, etc) but you either didn't see all the questions or chose to ignore them.

Whatever.

If there's anyone that has the slightest critical thinking capacity and is not yet prepared to accept JV's instant dismissal of my claims (that JV says his test proves the rider is clean), here is the original post, in all its glorious paucity of rigorous, scientific believability for proving someone is clean:


What is so exceptional about a skin suit providing a 15w advantage? Have you ever been to wind tunnel? I didn't think so.

I stick by that comment. Happy to prove it to you. Come on out to the wind tunnel.

Again: You don't have knowledge of the topics you speak about. That would fit, fairly well, with the definition of an idiot.

You are losing it, dude. Put people on ignore if you don't want to deal with them.

Any comment on why you did not hire Landis?

 

[JV1973]

Still waiting for evidence - anything - to prove "everyone tested high at the start of the 2012 Giro", JV.

How about it?

Didn't you mention Rossi in there somewhere, and a bunch of other team's doctors?

Not a single corroboration of your claim. Not a one.

What should I study to help me understand this claim?

My evidence is simply I asked Francesa: "why do all these pre race scores show high and then it immediately drops upon first in race test?" Her answer "Yes, I know, it's a problem with many riders. We don't know why, but we are looking into it."

I don't have any more evidence than that. So, go ask her. Go on!

If you prove me wrong, I will resign from my job and credit you.

 

[Cyivel]

JV brother, ignore the trolls.

 

[JV1973]

You are losing it, dude. Put people on ignore if you don't want to deal with them.

Any comment on why you did not hire Landis?

How do I do that? I do need to put Dear Wiggo on ignore.

Floyd? I told Floyd he could live at my house, borrow money, whatever, but I was not hiring him. Why? Was he training seriously? Did he really want to train seriously again? I saw those as bigger problems. Here was a massive political liability that wasn't really trying very hard (at the time)... Pragmatism said "don't do it"

I really like Floyd. We have remained friends through a lot. But I still wouldn't go back in time and change my decision. He needed to move on in his life. And he has. I speak with him on the 28th at Yale.

 

[mastersracer]

what about Levi? Would you hire him, or more generally does he have any place in the sport?

 

[JV1973]

what about Levi? Would you hire him, or more generally does he have any place in the sport?

I think I have answered this, publicly. It's really as simple as I had the choice of taking Levi or taking some young guys, like Lachlan or Caleb. I chose the young guys that have been with our program.

It's just as simple as helping guys that have been loyal to our team over the years.

 

[huntelk]

I've said it before ... JV, you will never please some of the people here.
Thanks for sticking around and providing your insight!!

 

[JV1973]

I've said it before ... JV, you will never please some of the people here.
Thanks for sticking around and providing your insight!!

Ever had Bobcat sausage patties? My buddy that guides me just gave me some. Damn, it's good.

 

[131313]

It cracks me up to listen to all these conti riders *****ing about how they were robbed by doping. Believe me, none of them, not one, would come close to Ramunas' test results. I get tired of guys that max out a 4.75w/kg saying they could have been great if they chose to dope, but their morals kept them from doing it. Sorry, but I doubt a guy that has a 4.75w/kg engine ever gets presented with the choice of doping, because no one would bother. So, we can't really say what their decision would have been.

And I grow a bit tired of guys whose doping has given them opportunities in the sport which they frankly wouldn't have had if they'd competed cleanly. Just sayin'...

BTW, I don't know who these domestic pros are putting out 4.75 w/kg, but they certainly aren't at the point end of any races with a hill in them. Fact is, there are guys roughly your age with as much or more talent than you who've had no where near the career opportunities you've have, because they haven't been willing to dope. And they have a right to be pi$$ed about it. Some of them are annoying about it, like BJ-M, others like Bajadali have just taken it in stride, and some like Willett just walked away...but there are guys out there who were good enough and lost careers to guys like you. You've profited from the opportunities that your dope-fuelled career provided to you (and yes, I realize you walked away and started from a pretty humble beginning. Still, the name recognition and part Euro experience play a part). So, I think you should try to understand that bitterness a little more and mock it a little less.

Because perspective is important, keep in mind that I'm not speaking from a place of bitterness myself. I've had more opportunities than I've even wanted, and I'm good with where I am; but there are guys who were genuinely screwed. And they're putting out a lot more than 4.75 w/kg...

 

[huntelk]

Ever had Bobcat sausage patties? My buddy that guides me just gave me some. Damn, it's good.

Wow, never even heard of that. Love to try it someday. No bobcat, but bullwinkle landed in my freezer this year. A Grain and grass fed moose from the prairies is the best game I've ever had.

 

[BroDeal]

How do I do that? I do need to put Dear Wiggo on ignore.

Go to the UserCP link at the top of the page. On the left hand nav column there is an "edit ignore list" link. You just add usernames of members you want to ignore.