JV talks, sort of

[JimmyFingers]

Where did Hamilton make that implication?

the case for the prosecution

Cross-reference this with the interview. Others hold it is Dekker he's referring too

 

[del1962]

Where did Hamilton make that implication?

Read this in the context of Hamiltons claims here

 

[Dr. Maserati]

nice, constructive reply, full of content.
but fair enough, if you prefer patting jv on the back every chance you get and jumping in his shoes whenever someone tries to raise a controversial issue, keep it up.

Perfect example.
Upthread I agreed JV should be scrutinized and asked hard questions, but hey, lets ignore that. I may not agree with the methods of MrsJM or even ChrisE, but i rarely query them because they bring up constructive questions.

They are controversial, you are not.
Because unlike them you actually lie and pull stuff out of context and come up with ridiculous theories.

 

[sniper]

Perfect example.
Upthread I agreed JV should be scrutinized and asked hard questions, but lets ignore that. I may not agree with the methods of MrsJM or even ChrisE, but i rarely query them because they bring up constructive questions.

They are controversial, you are not.
Because unlike them you actually lie and pull stuff out of context and come up with ridiculous theories.

agreed. now back on topic perhaps?

 

[pmcg76]

both rode on the same year on domestic Healthnet? no?

If you are referring to JV then no, JV rode for Prime Aliiance and was long retired before HealthNet.

This is simple stuff, why don't you guys just google this stuff before putting it in a post or perhaps it is done deliberately to create confusion.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

JV,

Twitter sucks sometimes for discerning meaning, so I'd like to ask what this tweet was referring to:

Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters
It's sad to watch desires for relevance and revenge supersede critical thinking, creative problem solving and leadership. Oh well.

 

[Haynzie]

JV,

Twitter sucks sometimes for discerning meaning, so I'd like to ask what this tweet was referring to:

Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters
It's sad to watch desires for relevance and revenge supersede critical thinking, creative problem solving and leadership. Oh well.

McQuaid, I think.

 

[BroDeal]

JV,

Twitter sucks sometimes for discerning meaning, so I'd like to ask what this tweet was referring to:

Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters
It's sad to watch desires for relevance and revenge supersede critical thinking, creative problem solving and leadership. Oh well.

Not too happy about being exposed as a hypocrite by Hamilton.

 

[Froome19]

She was the director of the Cycling Anti-Doping Foundation, earlier in her career she worked at the WADA lab in Rome, and spent some time with the IAAF anti-doping programs.

And now has just about the worst job in cycling.
Tbh to hear anything from her would be like finding a mine of gold.. the UCI place incredibly tight restrictions on her and the press's interaction with her.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

And now has just about the worst job in cycling.
Tbh to hear anything from her would be like finding a mine of gold.. the UCI place incredibly tight restrictions on her and the press's interaction with her.

Really? So how does this line up with JV's exhortation for me to contact her and get the lowdown on dodgy Giro values from 2012?

Snowflake in hell, right?

 

[northstar]

JV,

Twitter sucks sometimes for discerning meaning, so I'd like to ask what this tweet was referring to:

Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters
It's sad to watch desires for relevance and revenge supersede critical thinking, creative problem solving and leadership. Oh well.

He could be referring indirectly to MPCC as this was also tweeted today:

@EuroHoody AFP is reporting that MPCC is considering legal action against LA in a class-action involving sponsors, race organizers
@Vaughters @EuroHoody so, let me get this right, team managers who have doped or helped others dope are considering suing someone for doping?

JV, correct me if wrong ....

 

[pmcg76]

He could be referring indirectly to MPCC as this was also tweeted today:

@EuroHoody AFP is reporting that MPCC is considering legal action against LA in a class-action involving sponsors, race organizers
@Vaughters @EuroHoody so, let me get this right, team managers who have doped or helped others dope are considering suing someone for doping?

JV, correct me if wrong ....

Yes, that makes more sense regards the tweet. What leadership is Hamilton connected with?

Would have to agree.

 

[DirtyWorks]

And now has just about the worst job in cycling.
Tbh to hear anything from her would be like finding a mine of gold.. the UCI place incredibly tight restrictions on her and the press's interaction with her.

They can't have someone leading their anti-doping efforts talking about anti-doping efforts. Moreover, she has no idea what Pat and Hein will do to make her a liar. It protects her reputation as much as pretending anti-doping is more than theater.

 

[M Sport]

JV,

Twitter sucks sometimes for discerning meaning, so I'd like to ask what this tweet was referring to:

Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters
It's sad to watch desires for relevance and revenge supersede critical thinking, creative problem solving and leadership. Oh well.

http://www.cyclingtips.com.au/2013/02/trent-lowe-life-after-cycling/

?

 

[ChewbaccaD]

He could be referring indirectly to MPCC as this was also tweeted today:

@EuroHoody AFP is reporting that MPCC is considering legal action against LA in a class-action involving sponsors, race organizers
@Vaughters @EuroHoody so, let me get this right, team managers who have doped or helped others dope are considering suing someone for doping?

JV, correct me if wrong ....

That makes sense, and is much better than my initial interpretation...per usual.

Oh, and I agree with his assessment thustly.

 

[webvan]

http://www.cyclingtips.com.au/2013/02/trent-lowe-life-after-cycling/

?

Comes across as a pretty decent guy so that is pretty damning indeed, workload too hard...would be interesting to hear JV comment on that. Maybe it's changed now?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Comes across as a pretty decent guy so that is pretty damning indeed, workload too hard...would be interesting to hear JV comment on that. Maybe it's changed now?

There's a tweet from JV saying David Millar is not a GT rider - he doesn't recover - and hence why Millar's Hgb goes UP in a GT. It's JV's theory.

Curious then that JV sends Millar to all 3 GTs in a year, no?

 

[JV1973]

Not too happy about being exposed as a hypocrite by Hamilton.

Nope, it was hypocritical. I'd be the first to say it. I guess I'd somehow placed a "I'm not so bad, I never did a transfusion, plus I quit early because I couldn't deal w doping" justification in my head. Stupid in retrospect. But, no, I'm not upset by that at all. It's true. I said that.

 

[JV1973]

Comes across as a pretty decent guy so that is pretty damning indeed, workload too hard...would be interesting to hear JV comment on that. Maybe it's changed now?

Trent is a very decent guy. I think he went through a time where he got some very poor advice. In reality, had he emailed me and said "hey, sorry about not racing for the whole year and getting paid $200,000, and sorry about going to another teams' training camp, while I'm still getting paid by you without permission... Wasn't cool. Can I still get December's pay?" I probably would have caved.

Instead, I got something like "I was sent to Del Moral, quit playing games and pay me or it gets bad for both of us." ... So, at that point I had no choice than to expose the whole mess. Live by the transparency sword, die by it too...

But, do I think Trent is a bad guy? No way. He's actually a very good natured person with a good heart. I liked Trent a lot.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Trent is a very decent guy. I think he went through a time where he got some very poor advice. In reality, had he emailed me and said "hey, sorry about not racing for the whole year and getting paid $200,000, and sorry about going to another teams' training camp, while I'm still getting paid by you without permission... Wasn't cool. Can I still get December's pay?" I probably would have caved.

Instead, I got something like "I was sent to Del Moral, quit playing games and pay me or it gets bad for both of us." ... So, at that point I had no choice than to expose the whole mess. Live by the transparency sword, die by it too...

From my reading he contacted you numerous times with no response. Sets up a pretty depressing precedent when you email your boss and he ignores you.

And then you went public and made Trent out to be the bad guy long before he got his attack lawyer to play hard ball.

Here's a refresher for anyone wishing to read up on it: http://www.newcyclingpathway.com/news/blog/transperancy-international

Here's a quick summary of his race days:

2008 83
2009 53
2010 30
Total 166

Here's a link to Trent's PT CQ listing: http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider.asp?riderid=3146

You'll notice points for all 3 years listed above (2008-2010), something you cannot get unless you actually show up and finish.

So to say, "sorry for not racing the whole year" would seem disingenuous if not a flat out lie.

 

[V3R1T4S]

"Give a child a hammer and everything becomes a nail."

JV,

Some constructive criticism for you to take or to leave: perhaps you should get your "fingerprint" more under control. It is your greatest strength and fundamental weakness. It is two steps forward and one and a half steps back 100% of the time when it could be full speed ahead when the sport most desperately needs it. Not to say you aren't doing better than 95% of other people in the sport, however, that bar is low.

Regards.
V

 

[webvan]

Trent is a very decent guy. I think he went through a time where he got some very poor advice. In reality, had he emailed me and said "hey, sorry about not racing for the whole year and getting paid $200,000, and sorry about going to another teams' training camp, while I'm still getting paid by you without permission... Wasn't cool. Can I still get December's pay?" I probably would have caved.

Instead, I got something like "I was sent to Del Moral, quit playing games and pay me or it gets bad for both of us." ... So, at that point I had no choice than to expose the whole mess. Live by the transparency sword, die by it too...

But, do I think Trent is a bad guy? No way. He's actually a very good natured person with a good heart. I liked Trent a lot.

That's good to get this confirmed but I was more interested in hearing your comments on the work load (inherited from times when there was "help" to be found) that he claims got him exhausted in the long run. What do you think of that and has it changed since?

 

[Runitout]

In reality, had he emailed me and said "hey, sorry about not racing for the whole year and getting paid $200,000, and sorry about going to another teams' training camp, while I'm still getting paid by you without permission... Wasn't cool. Can I still get December's pay?" I probably would have caved.

After reading this:

http://www.newcyclingpathway.com/news/blog/transperancy-international

It seems that he first wrote an email to you asking you to pay him. Cos you hadn't. But you hadn't fired him. You hadn't apparently spoken to him for 6 months.

I am writing to inform you that I have not been paid for the month of December 2010. Furthermore owing to me is the provision of 2,000USD in bonuses earned at the Vuelta a Murcia. Can these please be paid with my final paycheck without delay?

No threat - just asking to be paid.

You sacked him after he asked to be paid what was already owing to him? Classy.

When did his contract end, anyways? Cos if it was before you told him you sacked him, well, how does that even work?

Instead, I got something like "I was sent to Del Moral, quit playing games and pay me or it gets bad for both of us." ... So, at that point I had no choice than to expose the whole mess. Live by the transparency sword, die by it too...

See, I don't get the bit where he is supposed to to have said, 'pay me or it gets bad for both of us' before you start lawyering up and going fire and brimstone.

I remember reading this interview:

http://velocitynation.com/content/interviews/2011/trent-lowe

AS: Getting back to Slipstream, I think things changed for Vaughters when Paul Kimmage became aware of all this. Did you have anything to do with Kimmage finding out about this?

TL: Absolutely not, I don't know how he found out about it, still to this day. I heard those things as well. Kimmage would be the guy to ask that.

AS: I've asked him, he won't say.

TL: That's the disappointing thing about it all. It started as a simple straightforward contract dispute, and it boiled up into this legal defamation issue. You made the comment in one of your emails that you didn't think it was in my interest to continue to make this public, and you're right, it wasn't, but now, one of the things I've been advised about in defamation, you have to take steps to mitigate your losses, or the loss to your reputation. So that's why I have to speak publicly and put some facts on the record, to help mitigate that loss.

AS: I think what might've happened is that the instant Kimmage became aware of it, Vaughters could no longer work things out with you privately. It would've smelled of a coverup and Kimmage would've gone ballistic. I think once Kimmage became aware of this the course of events were set on a path, where Matt White had to be fired and everything made public.

TL: Sure, it's disappointing how it played out, 'cause I didn't think it needed to be like that. I don't know, I can't comment, I don't know how Kimmage found out, or if he leveraged Jonathan with that or put pressure on him.

I never asked for Whitey to be fired. Although I’m really, incredibly unhappy at being sent to del Moral, I’m still not sure what policy Whitey broke.

And Andy Shen seems to suggest that you went public because Kimmage was on the warpath. Care to confirm or deny?

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Who's Francesca Rossi?
I'm confused.
JV should be welcoming additional scrutiny.

Somethings have been on my mind after reading some of your posts ..do you even like/love cycling? or do you used to like/love cycling at all? what is your fav race?.

 

[Froome19]

They can't have someone leading their anti-doping efforts talking about anti-doping efforts. Moreover, she has no idea what Pat and Hein will do to make her a liar. It protects her reputation as much as pretending anti-doping is more than theater.

I take it as Pat and Hein are protecting their own backs. They don't want their disregard for anti-doping fully exposed.