JV talks, sort of

[JV1973]

JV i was surprised to see your last comment .

Posted this earlier in the week & wonder if you care to reply :

JV , that you are taking the time to contribute , is appreciated , i have learnt a great deal more here from your recent 3 days of contribututions , than the time i spent at the tirreno-Adriatico , when i had several chats with this seasons racers .

JV , if you were on the outside of the Teams , what would you do to make the " Clinic " a force to be visited by Team Owners/Managers seeking to improve the SPORT of Cycling ? What could " Clinic Members " do that would make this FORUM a force with views & expectations to be listened to and respected ?

check my blog : " tourdafarce.blogspot " for more .

thanks. i will get back to you.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

and JV goes like "Wow, great points, didn't know that yet, thanks!"
Should tell you enough that a smart and seasoned guy like JV pretends not to have any doubts about Sky.

Your statement has the clarity of the liquid in a port-a-let at a weekend music festival. 5 posts in and you're leaving a poor impression...

Tighten things up, mmmkay?

 

[Netserk]

Do you think that doping should be criminalized in greater extent? Do cheats deserve to sit in prison? Or the pushers?

 

[Netserk]

What is your opinion regarding all the TUEs in the peloton?

 

[JV1973]

That's an exercise in futility.

Wiggins climbed Ventoux in 2009 faster than Rumsas did in 2002.

Wiggins climbed Toussuire about as fast as Sastre in 2006.

The clean riders of 2012 climbed as fast the dopers in 2007 on the Peyresourde East (although that one is hard to believe).

Share the power numbers. None of that VAM crap. Maybe then more people will believe you.

1. this is the type of hostile response that makes answering futile.

2. exceptions will be found, he whole of the data is there and points slower. go research it. dont take my word.

 

[horsinabout]

Very good post here. May I be permitted to add my own caveats.

Given that nothing has changed as far as Hein and Pat's leadership roles in the UCI post-USADA report, I don't see how fans can be expected to take it on faith that cycling is so much cleaner.

The show must go on!

Ashenden's revelations about Lance's 2009-11 biopassport not being given a full review undermined the credibility of the biopassport. Then we consider the reports about guys saying testing is infrequent, and reports that funding for the biopassport is less than it previously was. So the passport doesn't look like great proof of cleaner sport.

You scratch my back and i'll scratch yours!

Then there's the issue with Sky dominating races, at the same time as reports that British Sky Broadcasting is in talks with about broadcast rights to World Series Cycling. We have both Tour and Giro starting in the UK in the next few years, and recent London Olympics. All of this makes it look like the business of cycling is in pursuit of the British market.

Business as usual.

Given cycling's past, it's not hard to see why some have the opinion that UCI could be covering up Team Sky's doping.

Swiss back accounts!

We've been told before so many times that cycling is clean now, that there is a new clean generation. We were told it after Festina. The 1999 Tour of Redemption. The 2006 Tour was supposedly clean because the Puerto guys weren't racing. Then the 2007 Tour was another time of renewal, new clean generation. On it goes.

Déjà vu

"Déjà vu"

 

[JV1973]

What is your opinion regarding all the TUEs in the peloton?

i have to get back to class. will get back to you

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Erm, the Giro is under Cycling Ireland jurisdiction, even in Belfast.

The An Post boys will be delighted the UCi's got their back....

Ireland, England, what's the difference?

 

[will10]

If an obvious doper like Ricco was within human limits, can that be used as an argument for performances being clean?

You might like this one.

Alpe di Pampeagon parhaat ajat Italian ympäriajossa (viimeiset 5 km)

1. Marco Pantani (ITA / Mercatone Uno) | 16.23 | 1999
2. Pavel Tonkov (RUS / Mapei) | 16.49 | 1998
3. Marco Pantani (ITA / Mercatone Uno) | 16.50 | 1998
4. Denis Mentshov (RUS / Rabobank) | 17.21 | 2008
5. Gilberto Simoni (ITA / Saeco) | 17.22 | 2003
6. Ryder Hesjedal (CAN / Garmin | 17.29 | 2012
7. Franco Pellizotti (ITA / Liquigas) | 17.30 | 2008
8. Gilberto Simoni (ITA / Ballan-Alessio) | 17.30 | 1999
9. Riccardo Ricco (ITA / Saunier Duval) | 17.30 | 2008
10. Nicola Miceli (ITA / Riso Scotti) | 17.33 | 1998

(Only last 5km though. Ryder did the whole climb at 6.08 W/kg, VAM 1810 m/h)

 

[horsinabout]

Given that nothing has changed as far as Hein and Pat's leadership roles in the UCI post-USADA report, I don't see how fans can be expected to take it on faith that cycling is so much cleaner.

The show must go on!

Ashenden's revelations about Lance's 2009-11 biopassport not being given a full review undermined the credibility of the biopassport. Then we consider the reports about guys saying testing is infrequent, and reports that funding for the biopassport is less than it previously was. So the passport doesn't look like great proof of cleaner sport.

You scratch my back and i'll scratch yours!

Then there's the issue with Sky dominating races, at the same time as reports that British Sky Broadcasting is in talks with about broadcast rights to World Series Cycling. We have both Tour and Giro starting in the UK in the next few years, and recent London Olympics. All of this makes it look like the business of cycling is in pursuit of the British market.

Business as usual.

Given cycling's past, it's not hard to see why some have the opinion that UCI could be covering up Team Sky's doping.

Swiss back accounts!

We've been told before so many times that cycling is clean now, that there is a new clean generation. We were told it after Festina. The 1999 Tour of Redemption. The 2006 Tour was supposedly clean because the Puerto guys weren't racing. Then the 2007 Tour was another time of renewal, new clean generation. On it goes.

Déjà vu

 

[frenchfry]

yes, all of your points are valid. if there are sponsors reading, please stop sponsoring cycling and especially my team. we are all doping. full gas.

This is the kind of reaction I would expect from one of my teenage kids. There were some good points made and you seem to have missed them.

With this comment I have the impression that you feel that if we don't buy into the "cycling is clean now - believe me" point of view then our opinions are at best worthless andat worst are actually damaging the sport.

It isn't the cynics who are the bad guys, it's the doping facilitators and the dopers themselves.

 

[JV1973]

This is the kind of reaction I would expect from one of my teenage kids. There were some good points made and you seem to have missed them.

With this comment I have the impression that you feel that if we don't buy into the "cycling is clean now - believe me" point of view then our opinions are at best worthless andat worst are actually damaging the sport.

It isn't the cynics who are the bad guys, it's the doping facilitators and the dopers themselves.

my only point was that your mind is made up. so, why should i argue? if you feel my statement above is incorrect, then say so.

 

[peace in middle east]

Your statement has the clarity of the liquid in a port-a-let at a weekend music festival. 5 posts in and you're leaving a poor impression...

Tighten things up, mmmkay?

yes chef

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

cadf has recently made itself autonomous from uci. pat had to step down as president of cadf and was replaced by daniel baal. no idea why it hasnt been announcd.

That IS a good point, which I should have addressed in my previous post. My mistake. By CADF you mean the French who could detect positives in the lab, to be sure?

but i would ask that when i present real and easily verified numbers up, like climbing speeds being down 10%, that you think about it. Dont just dismiss it out of hand.

When I counter your argument with numbers of Ricco, tha bad MounTainFinisher/MTF [a joke!] you do not answer that. Maybe you do not know, maybe you do not want to know. We/I do want to know.

Numbers may be down in comparison to the absolute prime of EPO mis-use but that was also the case with CERA Ricco. Are we to believe the riders who could not keep up with Ricco/Piepoli/Cobo [not proven of course] are now able to match those numbers?

And, clean?

edit: perhaps mister Taus had in insight at Saunier Duval, 'lets keep it believable'?

 

[martinvickers]

Ireland, England, what's the difference?

Ireland's an island. England isn't.

Still, come to Ireland some time and say that in a Dublin pub. Make sure of your exits, mind.

Well, "British Cycling" ain't all that interested in (or relevant to) Irish cycling - any money made off the Giro goes to ireland, not GB, and not British Cycling - so the follow the money argument falls apart a bit.

that's the difference. Pretty bl**dy obvious you might think...

 

[GJB123]

My response works for Ryder's situation too.

I'm going to assume you replied before seeing my response. If not, I'm not sure what the point would be to keep going at this.



Knowing what little we do about doping, that's window with no testing is a fantastic opportunity to dope. As blood transfusions are better understood now, it's a great time to store a few cc's.

Even if you want to ignore the fact the bio-passport is a sham, the phrase "never tested positive" has taken on a new meaning for a reason. Admitted career-spanning dopers have never tested positive.

I think his point is not as much that the window is meaningless as such but rather it does;t automatically equate to a great possibility to store some bags as you won't know beforehand that the window of opportunity will occur. It is only afterwards that you know the opportunity as there.

 

[peace in middle east]

I think his point is not as much that the window is meaningless as such but rather it does;t automatically equate to a great possibility to store some bags as you won't know beforehand that the window of opportunity will occur. It is only afterwards that you know the opportunity as there.

true, but if you stay on Hawaii to train you can expect such windows to present themselves. Not saying Ryder dopes, just that it's futile to say he's clean based on the passport.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

yes chef

Calling me "chef" in reference to a post where the only reference to something remotely digestible was to sewage tells me your diet needs changing.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Ireland's an island. England isn't.

Still, come to Ireland some time and say that in a Dublin pub. Make sure of your exits, mind.

Well, "British Cycling" ain't all that interested in (or relevant to) Irish cycling - any money made off the Giro goes to ireland, not GB, and not British Cycling - so the follow the money argument falls apart a bit.

that's the difference. Pretty bl**dy obvious you might think...

Fish ON!!!!!!

 

[GJB123]

That is pretty weak, thought and scaled you with more balls Vaughters.

Why not be honest? Just say you hope cycling is cleaning up but you have no way of knowing. You dont even have to accuse other teams imho. We have eyes.

Katusha with the dodgiest staff of the last 22 years, they really stopped with the needles we must assume, and, yet they are allowed to participate at MPCC?

But, how about that ABP? Do you still have faith in it?

Actually all that he has really said is that cycling is cleaner, not clean. So much so that he thinks clean guys can win now.

 

[peace in middle east]

Calling me "chef" in reference to a post where the only reference to something remotely digestible was to sewage tells me your diet needs changing.

there's food for thought in that post.
anyway, I'm a fan of your kitchen in general and especially when Armstrong is on the menu.
But you seem to have softened a little wrt Garmin/JV, which is what worries me

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Fish ON!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31e5UGAnOjc

What a song.

Les Claypool, the king.

Actually all that he has really said is that cycling is cleaner, not clean. So much so that he thinks clean guys can win now.

You are right, in a sense.

 

[pedaling squares]

there's food for thought in that post.
anyway, I'm a fan of your kitchen in general and especially when Armstrong is on the menu.
But you seem to have softened a little wrt Garmin/JV, which is what worries me

Which one are you? I've never been very good at identifying sockpuppets.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Ireland's an island. England isn't.

Still, come to Ireland some time and say that in a Dublin pub. Make sure of your exits, mind.

Well, "British Cycling" ain't all that interested in (or relevant to) Irish cycling - any money made off the Giro goes to ireland, not GB, and not British Cycling - so the follow the money argument falls apart a bit.

that's the difference. Pretty bl**dy obvious you might think...

What does Pat McQuaid want from Cycling Ireland? This.

 

[thehog]

What does Pat McQuaid want from Cycling Ireland? This.

I bring you Giro start, you bring me nomination, yes?