JV talks, sort of

[blackcat]

That's a beautiful story but are you saying that has an impact on his score? Probably, not. In which case you are clearly just trying to bait. A shame because this thread had seemingly found a semblance of civility. A shame a clown like you then has to try and spoil it...

Keep to finding new words like 'dichotomy' and then trying to shoe-horn it into every comment you make. #notnormal

i prefer pedro the lion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGj3g6f72Rg

 

[blackcat]

The people still banging on about 9 weeks being no biggie, in the off season. I'll repeat it one final time: withdrawal / transfusion cycles take about 3 weeks.

wiggo, remarkable commitment. but is how do prove to some what you know intimately, even before seeing the numbers.

GT winners never displaying other worldly testing numbers (Lemond, Evans, etc) and demonstrating their native potential before their 30th birthday, winning their first GT in their 30's.

Dare I say, very normal (where very cannot be a qualifier for the adjective), ....
very normal in cycling, + NOT NORMAL.

so, as much as I respect these publicly touted shibboleth's by jonny vee, there might be an inkling of suspicion that these words are grounded in a cognitive dissonance. cycling pros, wont change. the meme NOT NORMAL, as much as it is an in-joke, really defies truth and logic. this IS cycling on the continent, professional cycling, and all professional sports and olympic sports have the exact ethic.

and if you r not part of this narrow demographic, which has its own norms and values, you really cant talk as if you know. this goes for me, this goes for Dear Wiggo, this also goes for the Sky johnny come latelies, just like the Livestrong fanboys. Everyone, everything gets burnt.

 

[blackcat]

The people still banging on about 9 weeks being no biggie, in the off season. I'll repeat it one final time: withdrawal / transfusion cycles take about 3 weeks.

one more thing.

this potential flaw you raise, implies a potential conspiracy to give hejedal wide berth to prepare for the festival of may.

or as like ashenden demonstrates, even sans wide berth, you can still manage this cycle without it being glaringly obvious.

and one thing jonny vee aint, is stupid, so i doubt any conspiracy there. the plausible deniability ? nah, i doubt that, even on this conspiracy spectrum through to plausible deniability, or 6 degrees of kevin bacon, which i prefer to call the implausible de-laiability, and j'accuse with a undeniable implausibilty.

shoutout to pedro re lione

 

[Dear Wiggo]

No conspiracy need be implied, when you consider even JV himself suggests 5x the $$$ should be contributed by pro teams. ie 5x the testing. ie 10x per year on average, with 7 of those being for EPO.

I'm just stabbing in the dark, granted, as the transparency of the BP testing numbers is about 0%. There are quite a few variables that impact on blood parameter numbers and they include natural and non-natural elements.

But if JV can win a Giro and still demand more testing, well... I'm down with that.

 

[Catwhoorg]

The people still banging on about 9 weeks being no biggie, in the off season. I'll repeat it one final time: withdrawal / transfusion cycles take about 3 weeks.

Even if you miss a bag being drawn, you should catch a full reinfusion with IC testing.

A partial bag is easier to get away with, which goes back to what many folks have been saying.

The passport is limiting the upside of blood doping (as well as making it more risky, if managed correctly).

More risk for less reward.

 

[Catwhoorg]

In OOC and IC cases, do you know which entity is picking the subjects to test? (ex. the promoter or sports federation) According to the WADA docs, that is how it works.

Does targeted testing include direct testing by UKAD? In other words, if UKAD got a clue that an athlete is doping, they are initiating the test.

IC is partially predetermined, (for cycling lets say stage winner + race leader) and then usually random. Well they SAY its random, but best practice is to use intelligence and pre-select competitors under suscpicion already.
You do need some random as well of course. As you do want to keep the 'risk' of being tested in everyones mind.

OOC - it is managed by UKAD. Not sure if that includes choosing whom to test, or if its the Sports Federation.

Targeted testing for sure can be done by UKAD on their own initiative, such as if they got a call on the anti-doping line about someone, they can follow-up.

That's how Dan Staite got busted (and his 2 year suspension), a tip off that UKAD followed up on.

 

[Catwhoorg]

If you are talking about the core of the bio-passport, the longitudinal testing, you would be right. But, we know two things with great confidence:

1. UCI does what it pleases with positive test results be they one-time or longitudinal.
2. The smarter doping programs seem to plan dosing to remain non-positive.

Wanted to separate these two strands of the post.
/agree with both your points.

I was more talking about the core of a well managed biopassport system. The bold may not apply to cycling...

 

[Dear Wiggo]

IC is partially predetermined, (for cycling lets say stage winner + race leader) and then usually random.

The races have their individual protocols. I believe TdF tests the leader every day. Ryder was in the pink for 3 (2?) days in 2012 before he got tested.

 

[JV1973]

Wanted to separate these two strands of the post.
/agree with both your points.

I was more talking about the core of a well managed biopassport system. The bold may not apply to cycling...

It is well managed by the director(Francesca Rossi). However, it is underfunded (exposing weak points in quality and quantity of testing) and needs to address the possibility of inappropriate executive influence on results management.

Its just not that hard to fix. Autonomy and funding, and it'd be effective.

Ive said it here, Ive said it in broader media, Ive said it in the CADF boardroom and I've said it to other teams. Now the riders are even saying it, as they notice the end product is falling short. And when they notice that, there will be some that don't complain, but instead trying to circumvent.

Its got to be fixed and fast. But no one listens to me.

 

[BroDeal]

It is well managed by the director(Francesca Rossi). However, it is underfunded (exposing weak points in quality and quantity of testing) and needs to address the possibility of inappropriate executive influence on results management.

Its just not that hard to fix. Autonomy and funding, and it'd be effective.

Ive said it here, Ive said it in broader media, Ive said it in the CADF boardroom and I've said it to other teams. Now the riders are even saying it, as they notice the end product is falling short. And when they notice that, there will be some that don't complain, but instead trying to circumvent.

Its got to be fixed and fast. But no one listens to me.

This post is not exactly a ringing endorsement for how clean the sport is now.

 

[martinvickers]

It is well managed by the director(Francesca Rossi). However, it is underfunded (exposing weak points in quality and quantity of testing) and needs to address the possibility of inappropriate executive influence on results management.

Its just not that hard to fix. Autonomy and funding, and it'd be effective.

Ive said it here, Ive said it in broader media, Ive said it in the CADF boardroom and I've said it to other teams. Now the riders are even saying it, as they notice the end product is falling short. And when they notice that, there will be some that don't complain, but instead trying to circumvent.

Its got to be fixed and fast. But no one listens to me.

The Dutch guys and Sky both made notable comments about lack of tests within a few days of each other. Was that co-ordinated, or simply serendipity?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

This post is not exactly a ringing endorsement for how clean the sport is now.

Because the riders are talking about the lack of testing to journalists, it needs to be fixed now. Before, they weren't talking about it to journalists, so it was fine, none of the riders noticed they only got tested a couple of times a year outside competition, sometimes many months apart. Even less for EPO if they did get tested.

Or something.

 

[JV1973]

This post is not exactly a ringing endorsement for how clean the sport is now.

Yeah, yeah, I get that. But, my point is not that racing hasn't cleaned up. I just don't think it will stick. People were scared of the biopass. If that fear subsides because of lack of execution, then people start to try and circumvent.

I think you've seen some very clean tracing the last few years. I stick by that statement (much to the anger of many here)....But, where I don't tow the party line, is that I think that it will be short lived if folks don't get their **** together.

I wrote, like, a whole blog on this, dude.

 

[JV1973]

The Dutch guys and Sky both made notable comments about lack of tests within a few days of each other. Was that co-ordinated, or simply serendipity?

No idea on that one.

 

[Spider1964]

The Clinic 12

JV... your adventures on this forum thread, reminds me of the book and TV series "A Game of Thrones"...
or should I call you Ned Stark?

Cast and characters

JV1973 is Lord Eddard "Ned" Stark, head of the Clinic family whose members are involved in most of the series's intertwined plot lines. He and his wife Catelyn Tully (MewMewMew13) have five children: the eldest, Robb (DirtyWorks), the dainty Sansa (Dear Wiggo), the tomboy Arya (blackcat), the adventurous Bran (martinvickers) and the toddler Rickon (Catwhoorg). The family's outsiders are Ned's hostage and ward Theon Greyjoy (KrebsCycle) and Ned's basterd son Jon Snow (BroDeal). Additionally, the Starks come to be served by the errant warrior Brienne of Tarth (Galic Ho).

I think we can all agree that there is no such thing as the clinic 12...

Disclaimer. The names in bold are not necessarily representative of the actual names of the actors playing these characters.

As you were.... watch your back.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I take much umbrage, sir, at being labeled dainty. I'll have you know I am a solid 25.5 on the BMI scale... And I'm ignored anyway, so better make me best grip or scene clapper or something, innit?

 

[Spider1964]

I take much umbrage, sir, at being labeled dainty. I'll have you know I am a solid 25.5 on the BMI scale... And I'm ignored anyway, so better make me best grip or scene clapper or something, innit?

HaHa... well if you know anything about Game of Thrones... JV would be best advised to take you off ignore or he'll end up with a knife in the back.

With a BMI like that you'll trigger the BP?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

HaHa... well if you know anything about Game of Thrones... JV would be best advised to take you off ignore or he'll end up with a knife in the back.

With a BMI like that you'll trigger the BP?

I am yet to watch it. My knives don't come through the forum.

My BMI triggering BP? Beach patrol? Beached whale?

Probably.

 

[Zaragon]

i am yet to watch it. My knives don't come through the forum.

my bmi triggering bp? Beach patrol? Beached whale?

Probably.

bp : Blood pressure

 

[Benotti69]

Yeah, yeah, I get that. But, my point is not that racing hasn't cleaned up. I just don't think it will stick. People were scared of the biopass. If that fear subsides because of lack of execution, then people start to try and circumvent.

From what we are seeing I guess lots of teams know how to circumvent. Sky being one.

Their circumvention of it has a deja vu similar to Bruyneel/Amrstrong meeting Lausanne Director Saugy.

ps Tom D put in a pretty impressive performance yesterday, for a guy who hasn't raced, against guys who have a good few races under their bib shorts. Just saying!

 

[GJB123]

The people still banging on about 9 weeks being no biggie, in the off season. I'll repeat it one final time: withdrawal / transfusion cycles take about 3 weeks.

Quite right, but still it would take insiders knowledge to know you are safe after they have come. You don't know beforehand that that they will stay away and for how many weeks. Based on averages you might gamble it and knowing what we know now of the lack of OOC testing for the BP the risk might even be deemed low, but it is not by any means ironclad that you will get away with it.

In hindsight Hesjedal could have run a withdrawal/transfusion cycle. But I do't think you will ride up any mountain faster from something you could have done.

 

[Ferminal]

Armstrong did it in 2009. Contador did it in 2010 (presumably) as did Scarponi. Ricco withdrew blood before the 2011 season.

Either they weren't tested close enough to withdrawal, their retics were not high enough to flag a violation, or they weren't pursued by the UCI.

 

[Benotti69]

Armstrong did it in 2009. Contador did it in 2010 (presumably) as did Scarponi. Ricco withdrew blood before the 2011 season.

Either they weren't tested close enough to withdrawal, their retics were not high enough to flag a violation, or they weren't pursued by the UCI.

Or as JV has said they know how to circumvent the BP.

I am of the opinion UCI do not pursue BP unless they have a reason.

What that reason may be is anyone's guess, UCI member needs a new holiday home in an the bahamas?

 

[Galic Ho]

JV... your adventures on this forum thread, reminds me of the book and TV series "A Game of Thrones"...
or should I call you Ned Stark?

Cast and characters

JV1973 is Lord Eddard "Ned" Stark, head of the Clinic family whose members are involved in most of the series's intertwined plot lines. He and his wife Catelyn Tully (MewMewMew13) have five children: the eldest, Robb (DirtyWorks), the dainty Sansa (Dear Wiggo), the tomboy Arya (blackcat), the adventurous Bran (martinvickers) and the toddler Rickon (Catwhoorg). The family's outsiders are Ned's hostage and ward Theon Greyjoy (KrebsCycle) and Ned's basterd son Jon Snow (BroDeal). Additionally, the Starks come to be served by the errant warrior Brienne of Tarth (Galic Ho).

I think we can all agree that there is no such thing as the clinic 12...

Disclaimer. The names in bold are not necessarily representative of the actual names of the actors playing these characters.

As you were.... watch your back.

Now I have to go and watch the show. Thanks dude. Thanks a lot.

My brothers think I am mad for not watching it. I watched the first episode of season one and that was it. Luckily for me I have plenty of sources to gain all episodes quickly. This is exactly what I needed! Something else in the entertainment stakes to take up more of my time

BTW I am not female. Nor do I look like a masculine female. Oh how I wish right now there was a Clinic 12! I am also not a blonde. Can't speak for the characterisation and personality though. Will have to watch to see.

 

[Escarabajo]

From what we are seeing I guess lots of teams know how to circumvent. Sky being one.

Their circumvention of it has a deja vu similar to Bruyneel/Amrstrong meeting Lausanne Director Saugy.

ps Tom D put in a pretty impressive performance yesterday, for a guy who hasn't raced, against guys who have a good few races under their bib shorts. Just saying!

It should be OK for a guy with natural talent to do that. You can see that at any level. I always complain about riders not being in shapefor most of the year and come Tour de France they start flying up the mountains.