JV talks, sort of

[Galic Ho]

no.

my response was to the "natural talent" appellation.


thought we were all in agreement, this is virtually impossible to discern.

Ok fair enough. Got confused with your rhetoric again.

'Natural talent' is just a label. A buzz term. Something to identify and categorize. Is it right to do so? Depends doesn't it. Perhaps I should have said I have more faith in him being clean simply by his performances on the road given his genetic pedigree. Given his genetics I don't think it is strange he is a pro rider. He fits the scope of someone who could make it IF he had the correct guidance. That doesn't mean he is a world beater, but IMO someone who I think naturally would be a pro and someone to make some waves based on that genetic probability of having the right combo to do well. Note he isn't a worlds best. But he is good. I think better than his cousin. But that is just my opinion.

Should we label people? Probably not, but it's part of human conditioning and behaviour. It's gonna happen. As long as the target audience can fathom it's intent and the scope, then it's a necessary barrier to discussion. It's about perception filters and the direct language used to associate people with a separate idea or ideal. Aka, are you clean or dirty? Is your talent augmented or were you born with it and are only using it untainted?

Parrot23 or whoever raised the issue about Martin...he's not high on the dirty looking riders agenda. A lot of luck was behind his win and the leaders jersey. I also must add, look at Uran this week. Had to do all the chasing on the last climb, cracked with 4km or whatever to go, finished 6 minutes back. Wiggins ain't where he was last year. Garmin had two guys on his wheel according to the stage report and he is well below Valverde, Quintana, Purito, Gesink and Van den Broecke. This Giro might be interesting.

 

[badboygolf16v]

Nice deafening silence here today by the dirty peloton crowd about Garmin's (Dan Martin's) performance yesterday at Catalunya.

Says a lot. Deeds speak louder than words. Facts are a very inconvenient thing. Words are a dime a dozen.

Useful Idiot Brendan Gallagher said something similar on Twitter.

Glad you've both cleared up the issue and set everyone's minds at rest regarding doping in cycling.

 

[maltiv]

Dan Martin is more or less the least suspicious guy in the peloton right now, after Moncoutie quit...

There's nothing suspicious about a natural, talented climber winning a MTF after getting a 1:30 headstart. We can start speculating if he starts winning flat TTs

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Useful Idiot Brendan Gallagher said something similar on Twitter.

Glad you've both cleared up the issue and set everyone's minds at rest regarding doping in cycling.

That guy is an idiot. Martin has been good at Catalunya from the start of his carreer. They call that season build up.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Take Steffi Graf and Andre Agassi. Their kids ever get a tennis racquet in their hands, they will be a force to be reckoned with.

Off topic, there was an advert involving Mark Philipoussis getting beaten at tennis by a young kid on a public court a few years ago. All very lighthearted, and the kid was the elder of the Graf-Agassi progeny.

Either the kid could play tennis or there was some very good editing/special effects!

Off topic again, but what on earth did the godess that is Steffi Graf see in that short-arsed twot?

 

[del1962]

Nice deafening silence here today by the dirty peloton crowd about Garmin's (Dan Martin's) performance yesterday at Catalunya.

Says a lot. Deeds speak louder than words. Facts are a very inconvenient thing. Words are a dime a dozen.

To be fair Dan took the sensible precation of changing his nationality some years ago

 

[Ferminal]

Hasn't helped Roche

On Vanmarcke - are classics riders seen as less of a threat than stage racers, so are tested less? That of course would make classics riders more of a threat...

 

[Parrot23]

Dan Martin is more or less the least suspicious guy in the peloton right now, after Moncoutie quit...

+Precisely 100%. That's my point--which goes exactly to the larger point of JV's comments about the peloton now, including Sky. The fact he can win a stage like convincingly says a lot.

Not that bright a crowd around here, I'd say. Consumed with biases, I'd say.

 

[Galic Ho]

Off topic, there was an advert involving Mark Philipoussis getting beaten at tennis by a young kid on a public court a few years ago. All very lighthearted, and the kid was the elder of the Graf-Agassi progeny.

Either the kid could play tennis or there was some very good editing/special effects!

Off topic again, but what on earth did the godess that is Steffi Graf see in that short-arsed twot?

Enough. Apparently their first date was the winners dance at the 99 Roland Garros. Maybe he can dance a jig really well? And you know what they say about dancers right? Either way, he did really well for himself. I always liked Agassi and Graf. Good match. Germans are cool...he did well for himself.

But seriously, this story about the P00 aka Scud got any accuracy to it? Because Pat Cash once said Mark Philipoussis had so much tennis talent in just his pinkie finger he'd crush most men. I believe the line was 'more talent in his pinkie finger than they possess in their entire body.' Happened during the Davis Cup way back when Australia could still win it.

I can imagine the match being lighthearted, but if the kid is already on the court...give it 4 years or less and we might see them on an ATP tournament some time soon.

 

[Galic Ho]

+Precisely 100%. That's my point--which goes exactly to the larger point of JV's comments about the peloton now, including Sky. The fact he can win a stage like convincingly says a lot.

Not that bright a crowd around here, I'd say. Consumed with biases, I'd say.

Nice deflection. Your trollcraft is weak. Weak. Gotta try harder than that around here. That's not even wannabe trolling status!

So nobody say's anything about Dan Martin, because it's to be expected like Maltiv said, you cry hypocrisy, have almost a dozen replies and then try and switch the boot and claim people aren't bright! See the smilie...you're confusing yourself. If you're to be believed then your initial point is mute and pointless. Don't switch this to Sky. They weren't leading the peloton until the crash.

Your tone suggested the diametrically opposed line of thought to the one you've deflected back on. But nice try...it almost worked. Almost. Next time if you want to make it believable make sure to mention Sky in the first post instead of deflecting man.

 

[Parrot23]

Nice deflection. Your trollcraft is weak. Weak. Gotta try harder than that around here.

So nobody say's anything about Dan Martin, because it's to be expected like Maltiv said, you cry hypocrisy, have almost a dozen replies and then try and switch the boot and claim people aren't bright! See the smilie...you're confusing yourself. If you're to be believed then your initial point is mute and pointless. Don't switch this to Sky. They weren't leading the peloton until the crash.

Your tone suggested the diametrically opposed line of thought to the one you've deflected back on. But nice try...it almost worked. Almost.

LOL, poor reading skills and comprehension here by some. Not my problem they go off on their usual tangent.

Time for remedial education and less posting by some clinic addicts--yes, there is a "doping" problem of sorts here.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

+Precisely 100%. That's my point--which goes exactly to the larger point of JV's comments about the peloton now, including Sky. The fact he can win a stage like convincingly says a lot.

Not that bright a crowd around here, I'd say. Consumed with biases, I'd say.

Too bad team SKY arent black, otherwise you could accuse us of being racist.

@Vaughters: serious troubles with Nuyens?

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

But seriously, this story about the P00 aka Scud got any accuracy to it?

It was just in an advert. There's a kid on the court and asks the passing pro if he fancies a game. The pro agrees and hits a gentle shot over the net, which then get blatted back at great speed. This gets repeated a few times with the pro getting more and more mystified, with some camera-friendly looks of puzzlement.

Cue shot to proud parents - Graf and Agassi - and reference to some mass-market consumer product. Gillette or Pepsi, no doubt.

I'm fairly ambivalent to PED use by sportsmen, but in Agassi's case I make an exception. Without PEDs, he wouldn't won the French open in 1999, wouldn't have had the chance to show off his dancing skills to the feisty fraulein and wouldn't have "got lucky". He should be strung up from the nearest umpire's chair and beaten to death with his old hairpiece for his crimes.

 

[GJB123]

I looked it up on Youtube and it is a commercial for Genworth Capital.

http://youtu.be/WN7rUSqKEPM

Pretty funny and since it has the Fraulein in it, it makes it worth watching in any case. I am with you though W&G, whetever did she see in the little, bald midget is beyond me. Aahhh, thise legs were only rivalled by those of Zvonereva.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Dan Martin is more or less the least suspicious guy in the peloton right now, after Moncoutie quit...

There's nothing suspicious about a natural, talented climber winning a MTF after getting a 1:30 headstart. We can start speculating if he starts winning flat TTs

+1.

Looking at the finish order, two Garmin riders sat-in on the chase effort to close the gap on Martin. Good team work. The cringing will begin when Martin turns in dominant TT times sometime in July.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

second on GC at the Vuelta Catalunya 3 or 4 years back.

if he is on complementary medicines or not, does not affect me.

/sarcasm.

cant prove a negative, not that is of any concern.

Sure he could be on the full Complement no idea on this side. I was distracted by other things like twitter accounts and such.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Too bad team SKY arent black, otherwise you could accuse us of being racist.

@Vaughters: serious troubles with Nuyens?

Just you wait the racist claim is sure to come. D.Martin wins a stage and now we are supposed to turn on him like he is a Skybot or something? It is not like teamGar had the entire team up front droping all contenders.
Serioustly parrrots get a real argument or something.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Aahhh, thise legs were only rivalled by those of Zvonereva.

Rivalled by but not bettered, in my view!

Thanks for the YouTube link.

 

[Parrot23]

To be fair Dan took the sensible precation of changing his nationality some years ago

Excellent! Missed this one.

 

[martinvickers]

That guy is an idiot. Martin has been good at Catalunya from the start of his carreer. They call that season build up.

I could be wrong, but prior to this year (and nic's move to the dark side), i was always under the impression Nic and Dan had very good reps re doping - somewhat to the irritation of Nic's Da, oddly enough, who felt nic didn't 'prepare' enough...

 

[martinvickers]

Off topic, there was an advert involving Mark Philipoussis getting beaten at tennis by a young kid on a public court a few years ago. All very lighthearted, and the kid was the elder of the Graf-Agassi progeny.

Either the kid could play tennis or there was some very good editing/special effects!

Off topic again, but what on earth did the godess that is Steffi Graf see in that short-arsed twot?

That short arsed twit also did the do on Brooke Shields, while she still looked like something...just for the record. Fame is a powerful aphrodisiac.

 

[blackcat]

on the road given his genetic pedigree. Given his genetics I don't think it is strange he is a pro rider. He fits the scope of someone who could make it IF he had the correct guidance

uncle on one of Conconi's experiments no? gotta assume the old man dipped his wick too.

how do you talk family's genes obscured.

 

[blackcat]

Genetics are arbitrary qualifiers. They don't mean a lot. But would you gamble against them? Odds are there is more than enough talent to go pro. Take Steffi Graf and Andre Agassi. Their kids ever get a tennis racquet in their hands, they will be a force to be reckoned with. It's whether the latent talent gets nurtured, that is the determinant. Not arbitrary genetic probabilities on dominant and recessive gene sequences. They are givens, they are definitely there. To what degree is another matter.

tennis has moved beyond laver and these talents.

the future players in the female and male ranks, has moved to more than this laver/federer naturals.

men need to be well over 6 foot, the taller the better, and have brilliant court movement. the top 3 players, are all the best defenders, and can switch to attack. that requires less genes for coordination and fine motor hand eye. and more to explosivity like monfils.

one of the daughters of the pedo from australia gavin hopper won some international jnr tourney as a 12yo, but she was always gonna be 5'3" and not endowed with athleticism like a gymnast. the amanda koetzer era in tennis was over. (note her old man coached koetzer)

genetics as a key plank in future performance in sport, have receded to a degree. with the division of labour in professional sport, imo doping is the number one performance metric.

 

[blackcat]

Dan Martin is more or less the least suspicious guy in the peloton right now, after Moncoutie quit...

There's nothing suspicious about a natural, talented climber winning a MTF after getting a 1:30 headstart. We can start speculating if he starts winning flat TTs

+Precisely 100%. That's my point--which goes exactly to the larger point of JV's comments about the peloton now, including Sky. The fact he can win a stage like convincingly says a lot.

Not that bright a crowd around here, I'd say. Consumed with biases, I'd say.

bull$hit

bull

excrement

 

[Parrot23]

Barely coherent and inane drivel passing as supreme insight is fooling no one. If it does, pity for them.