JV talks, sort of

[Dr. Maserati]

your underexaggeration was a tad more flagrant than my exaggeration. go back and check.
why are you covering for prentice/weltz under false pretences?

Haha, my 'underexaggeration' (wtf?) of your over exaggeration mean that what I said was correct.
If by covering for prentice/weltz is just posting what they actually did - then I guess I am guilty of exposing the truth.

Sorry if that appears to upset your goal.

and so the point still remains: weltz still hasn't come clean let alone shown any repentance, and it begs the question why prentice is no longer concerned.

Perhaps, and this is just a wild theory - the reason Prentice is not showing any concern that Weltz was a "corrupt doping facilitator", is because he didn't believe Weltz was a "corrupt doping facilitator" in the first place.

 

[sniper]

...

ok, reformulated to accomodate dr. maserati's limited comprehension:
why was prentice warining people that johnny was a "reputed drug cheat" (sounds a lot better indeed) and now doesn't seem to be worried about that anymore, even though johnny hasn't come clean yet let alone shown any repentance?

 

[martinvickers]

I must have heard him make that very statement, qualified by "on average", at least a half dozen, if not a full dozen, times at the Armstrong Lie premiere.

Honest.

He said it on stage during the Q+A, and then afterwards as he made his way up to the waiting limo.

The interesting bit (for me) was the qualification, "If you look at the top performers, on average and not at the extremes, power output and speed are down" (forgive me if there is some slight paraphrasing in that, but it is pretty close if not exactly what he said multiple times)

So, who was he singling out 'at the extremes'?

Dave.

i don't think he was 'singling out' anybody, although it's fairly obvious what the extremes were this year. He was basically describing a bell curve.

 

[martinvickers]

The usual method of applying statistics is to apply it to the entire population, as opposed to high-grading the selection pool and then applying statistics.

Nope, that there is an outlier... remove that data point...

Dave.

erm, median, anybody?

 

[martinvickers]

Isnt the whole point of the "speeds are down" mantra that you can now win clean because noone is climbing like its the 90s anymore?

Erm, no, sceptic. It's not.

The point is not that you can now win clean because no-one is climbing like that - and by the way, as it happens, no-one is - check pantani on the Hautacam...

It's that you can now win clean because vast chunks of the peleton aren't climbing like that. It's about the average speed at the head of the race, not the speed of the guy who won it alone.

Seriously, if you don't get that. you've completely missed the entire mathematical point of the argument - it is not, and was never, about single performances.

You want to catch individual dopers? The magic 6.2 ain't the way to do it. Sorry if you hoped otherwise.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

ok, reformulated to accomodate dr. maserati's limited comprehension:
why was prentice warining people that johnny was a "reputed drug cheat" (sounds a lot better indeed) and now doesn't seem to be worried about that anymore, even though johnny hasn't come clean yet let alone shown any repentance?

Simple answer is, like you, I have no idea.

Unlike you, I don't care either.
If you wish to speculate on why someone is not doing or saying something (about something that you have no idea about in the first place) - knock yourself out.

But if you lie or exaggerate, I will correct you.

 

[sniper]

Simple answer is, like you, I have no idea.

Unlike you, I don't care either.
If you wish to speculate on why someone is not doing or saying something (about something that you have no idea about in the first place) - knock yourself out.

But if you lie or exaggerate, I will correct you.

it certainly wasn't a lie, and on second thought, it wasn't much of an exaggeration either. And never mind that the exact wording didn't have any bearing whatsoever on the thrust of my question regarding prentice & weltz.
In other words, you appeared to be deliberately deflecting, aka trollling.

 

[hiero2]

Look whos talking?
Pretty much in every thread you lay down incoherent snippets, opinions pretending to be facts, plain trolling, but when somebody asks your sources, asks how to you back up your claims, asks evidence - you go silent, ignore, and only when pressed question after question, give some half baked answers.

For all - the first is a personal attack. It only makes general allegations about another poster, no links, no particular posts pointed out. Post, not the poster.

The only reason I do not delete it is because sniper actually came back with a good-tempered response (above), and it did not cause a fight.

Speaking of fights - for the last few pages - this thread is pretty much a scrap. Put a chill on everybody. Bite your tongue for a day or two, and let the sizzle fizzle.

No personal attacks. No cruisin' lookin' for a fight. OK?

 

[pmcg76]

I have worked doing the same job for several different companies. In no two companies have things ever being done the exact same. Usually when I enter a new company, I hold back and wait to see how things are done rather than assume what I have done in the past is the right way. I have seen several people leave jobs or be fired because the way they thought things should be done was not the way the company done things.

I know someone who had been working for the same company for 10 years and they moved to another company this year for a lot better money with a career advancement position. They lasted less than 6 months before they quit because they couldn't handle how the new company operated or how the people behaved there.

I think JV has made it clear numerous times and in numerous publications that when you join his team, regardless of what you have done in the past, you now operate by his rules and if you don't its sayonara. To me anyway this is a reflection of any real life business.

I guess some don't really understand this concept.

 

[Benotti69]

I have worked doing the same job for several different companies. In no two companies have things ever being done the exact same. Usually when I enter a new company, I hold back and wait to see how things are done rather than assume what I have done in the past is the right way. I have seen several people leave jobs or be fired because the way they thought things should be done was not the way the company done things.

I know someone who had been working for the same company for 10 years and they moved to another company this year for a lot better money with a career advancement position. They lasted less than 6 months before they quit because they couldn't handle how the new company operated or how the people behaved there.

I think JV has made it clear numerous times and in numerous publications that when you join his team, regardless of what you have done in the past, you now operate by his rules and if you don't its sayonara. To me anyway this is a reflection of any real life business.

I guess some don't really understand this concept.

Business is also not about the truth. That concept is repeated daily, but i suppose some dont really understand this concept.

 

[hiero2]

as you know, jv is a frontrunner in terms of bringing science into cycling.
and i'm not talking bike science here.
i don't know if that's the right thing to do.
and never mind that he hired some of the finest spanish doctors in order to implement said science. docs who'd made a name for themselves not exactly in the cleanest era of spanish sports. . . .

You are making unsubstantiated allegations here. Provide links or don't make the allegations. And don't hide behind "common knowledge" - I don't know it, and I'm common enough for this purpose. TYVM.

FYI to all. I am currently of the opinion that the standards of proof in this forum have declined over the past couple of years. Which is quite understandable, and natural given the chain of events. But, I am also inclined to believe we need to return to some level of "proof required". I'm seeing too many arguments where someone makes an unsubstantiated statement. Makes it hard to tell who's trolling, who's totally bs'ing, and who's just exaggerating a bit.

 

[hiero2]

Business is also not about the truth. That concept is repeated daily, but i suppose some dont really understand this concept.

I'm sure you understand why this is ON topic - I don't. I know business is not about truth - but not why that might be applicable to this thread.

 

[sniper]

here are the links to the threads on Carlos Gonzalez Haro:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18369&highlight=phlebotomists

and Inigo San Millán:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18395&highlight=mill%E1n
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18343&highlight=mill%E1n

They contain info and links to when exactly they worked for Garmin.
From the head, Inigo worked 2 years for Garmin, Haro only 1 year. Not sure.

 

[Benotti69]

I'm sure you understand why this is ON topic - I don't. I know business is not about truth - but not why that might be applicable to this thread.

JV and his MBA

 

[D-Queued]

JV and his MBA

...the application thereof being future speculation aka innuendo...

When it comes to cyclists, with business activities, that are not about the truth we have plenty of evidence from the likes of Lance of 'Its not about the bike or the truth' practices.

As for truth and business, no, business is not about the truth. Business is about business. We have courts of law that try and determine the truth. Not sure that this should be a for-profit activity. Untruthful and even unethical business practices do tend to end up in the courts, however.

In fact, given issues like securities regulations, contract law and employment law, untruthful businesses tend to find themselves in the courts arguably considerably moreso than untruthful and unethical individuals do.

Thus, such innuendo is not only off-topic, but unfounded.

Dave.

 

[hrotha]

Anyone knows where the story about JV describing Horner's biological passport as "hilarious" comes from?

 

[BYOP88]

Anyone knows where the story about JV describing Horner's biological passport as "hilarious" comes from?

St. Jonathan of Vaughters just knows everything.

 

[sniper]

Anyone knows where the story about JV describing Horner's biological passport as "hilarious" comes from?

where have you heard the story?

would be interesting to hear vaughters' uncensored views on horner.
he doesn't seem to like horner too much judging from his tweet about the hincapie incident.

but vaughters still takes and gets credit in the press for the biopassport, so i doubt he'll come out with a statement like that wrt horner's BP values.

and to what year would vaughters have been referring? recall that horner was a zero on the suspsicion index.

 

[hrotha]

I'm not sure whether I picked that up here or from Twitter.

 

[Cyivel]

It was definitely mentioned on here by someone as I recall reading that recently, not sure if it originated on twitter though.

Edit: To clarify if needed, it wasn't JV I recall saying it but someone else talking about him saying it.

 

[gooner]

I can't remember JV saying anything about Horner's passport but I do remember him on here talking about Rasmussen's blood values alright.

 

[hrotha]

I can't remember JV saying anything about Horner's passport but I do remember him on here talking about Rasmussen's blood values alright.

Hmm, I remember that too now that you mention it. Probably someone conflated the two?

 

[zlev11]

it comes from this: http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/post/39387133760/the-last-epo-cowboy

and there was also a tweet from veloclinic, which i can't seem to find right now

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Tyler's Twin signature

Originally Posted by Race Radio View Post
ex wife, kids to feed.....Part of getting paid $800,000 per year to show up "Prepared" for 4-5 races per year includes spewing nonsense.

Chris [Horner] should share his blood values for the last few years. They look like the profile of Tour climbing stage

Quote:
Originally Posted by ‏@veloclinic
@PaulWillerton nah the epo cowboy is Horner, according to the sideburned one his biopassport is "hilarious"

 

[sniper]

^interesting (and well spotted btw)