JV talks, sort of

[sniper]

I'm uninformed about the spanish doctors on Garmin–just don't know anything about it so maybe either here or in PM you could give me some info to follow up on.

I don't consider locating a team in Girona to be evidence of anything. Seems that's where a lot of American teams/riders have been going and it seems a good place to live and train with the weather. Could be what you suggest but it's pretty thin w/o supporting evidence.

I'm just saying, these are issues which, from a distance, look ambiguous.
certainly doping is not the only explanation, but cycling is such a mess that when something looks ambiguous, a certain amount of skepsis is in order.


wrt the docs (Inigo San Millán / Carlos Gonzalez Haro), they're now based in Colorado, afaik no longer officially attached to Garmin. Haro used to be with Real Madrid and is a certified phlebotomist, Inigo used to work closely with Allen Lim and used to brag about being Contador's former doctor.

Admittedly, they might be there just to keep an eye out in the good sense, I'm certainly not saying they are administering peds.
But it's ambiguous, and at least some skepsis seems warranted.

and who do we have here:

In addition to being the head Sports Director at USPS from 1997-1998, Johnny was the winner of a stage in the 1988 Tour de France, and a long standing member of the powerful ONCE team. Johnny brings extensive experience to the Garmin-Transitions team, and seeks to lead the team to greatness in their European campaigns.

hi johnny.
indeed, great experience. and unrepentant at it.

 

[the sceptic]

The Spanish Doctors are just one person - Inigo San Millán.
His guilt - he is a Spanish Doctor.

Didnt he also happen to find himself employed by some very dodgy teams before he joined Garmin?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I'm just saying, these are issues which, from a distance, look ambiguous.
certainly doping is not the only explanation, but cycling is such a mess that when something looks ambiguous, a certain amount of skepsis is in order.


wrt the docs (Inigo San Millán / Carlos Gonzalez Haro), they're now based in Colorado, afaik no longer officially attached to Garmin. Haro used to be with Real Madrid and is a certified phlebotomist, Inigo used to work closely with Allen Lim and used to brag about being Contador's former doctor.

Admittedly, they might be there just to keep an eye out in the good sense, I'm certainly not saying they are administering peds.
But it's ambiguous, and at least some skepsis seems warranted.

and who do we have here:
indeed, great experience. and unrepentant at it.

He was Contadors Doctor? You might want to link where he admits that and how he "bragged" about it.

I hope you are not confusing Doctor with someone who tested Contador.

 

[sniper]

The Spanish Doctors are just one person - Inigo San Millán.
His guilt - he is a Spanish Doctor.

vaughters guilt: if you don't want your kids to steel candy, don't bring them to the candy store.

p.s. i was also referring to gonzalez haro, who guides some of the finest athletes in a variety of sports (swimming, soccer) where doping makes a difference.

 

[sniper]

He was Contadors Doctor? You might want to link where he admits that and how he "bragged" about it.

I hope you are not confusing Doctor with someone who tested Contador.

i take the fact that you try to tackle a small, comparatively trivial fragment of my post to suggest you agree with the rest of the post?
anyway, yes he bragged about it and it's been posted here a number of times.

 

[Benotti69]

Indeed, lots of questions needed to be answered.

JV came here to satisfy some personal need.

But you didn't ask a meaningful question - as your above post shows, you are an extremist and have no intention on changing your view.

In your opinion. I dont have extreme views. The pro side of the sport is corrupt and rotten to its core. JV is part of that. Yes he helped bring down the biggest doper and fraud in the history of sport, but others did more and suffered more.
McQuaid runs the sport.

Some want to believe in a cleanER sport. But there maybe less doping than previously but that dont make it cleanER at levels that are acceptable. GT winners still dope.

My view will change when the sport changes and by the looks of the UCI election that is not going to happen anytime soon.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

i take the fact that you try to tackle a small, comparatively trivial fragment of my post to suggest you agree with the rest of the post?
anyway, yes he bragged about it and it's been posted here a number of times.

The rest of your post was incoherent rambling - I do not agree with it in any way, but I am quite happy to leave it untouched.

The "it" being he is/was Contadors Doctor, if it is posted here so often it should make your search a lot easier.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

JV came here to satisfy some personal need.



In your opinion. I dont have extreme views. The pro side of the sport is corrupt and rotten to its core. JV is part of that. Yes he helped bring down the biggest doper and fraud in the history of sport, but others did more and suffered more.
McQuaid runs the sport.

Some want to believe in a cleanER sport. But there maybe less doping than previously but that dont make it cleanER at levels that are acceptable. GT winners still dope.

My view will change when the sport changes and by the looks of the UCI election that is not going to happen anytime soon.

Help me out here - is:
"The pro side of the sport is corrupt and rotten to its core. JV is part of that."
or is it,
"McQuaid runs the sport"

And if McQuaid runs the sport, then I assume that him being ousted will be good news - oh no, you added this:
"My view will change when the sport changes and by the looks of the UCI election that is not going to happen anytime soon."

 

[sniper]

...
I also think cycling has fully lost the plot and that Sky started a new arms race with collusion from the UCI. That I can't prove in any way, but that's what I've thought since the ridiculous and Olympics 2012 timed emergence of Bradzilla and Badzilla.

the sky scam and upcoming froome coup was easy to predict and plain to see for most in here - except for jv1973 and a wide range of sky fanboys.

vaughters out there in the press has vociferously vouched for sky and wiggins.
i understand the twist vaughters might be in, but again, when it's ambiguous, the history of cycling compells me to be skeptic.

jv1973 has avoided answering a lot of easy questions in here under the shield of his public personality.
he has also yelled, screamed and called names to other posters under that same shield.
wiggins press conference style. number of times. not that i care too much, but it doesn't help his credibility.

he could also have come in here anonymously, but didn't.

 

[Netserk]

Help me out here - is:
"The pro side of the sport is corrupt and rotten to its core. JV is part of that."
or is it,
"McQuaid runs the sport"

And if McQuaid runs the sport, then I assume that him being ousted will be good news - oh no, you added this:
"My view will change when the sport changes and by the looks of the UCI election that is not going to happen anytime soon."

How are those statements mutually exclusive?

 

[Beech Mtn]

Isnt the whole point of the "speeds are down" mantra that you can now win clean because noone is climbing like its the 90s anymore?

Yes. Which is why the times of the winners and high finishers in races and stages are much more important than that of the grupetto and mid-pack guys.

Saying something like "other than the outliers" seems like it should be a signal for concern that the future will include more doping. It implies that winners are on another level, which usually means the rest of the guys are going to be looking to step up their game.

 

[Benotti69]

Help me out here - is:
"The pro side of the sport is corrupt and rotten to its core. JV is part of that."
or is it,
"McQuaid runs the sport"

And if McQuaid runs the sport, then I assume that him being ousted will be good news - oh no, you added this:
"My view will change when the sport changes and by the looks of the UCI election that is not going to happen anytime soon."

Since when did Mcq give a toss about the amateur side of it?

The sport might change when the UCI is burnt down and rebuilt, not a hand over from McQuaid to Cookson.

 

[sniper]

that JV jumped the sinking McBruggen ship doesn't mean he wasn't sailing with them when the winds were favorable.

where was jv's outcry when armstrong returned in 2009?

never mind jv's treatment of tyler in 2008.
Shows me JV isn't exacty the nicest guy. But anti-doping? of course.

his Clinic campaign was a clever move, by the way. The press now applauds him for engaging with the fans in online forums -- mission accomplished.

So come on guys, give me one reason to trust him already.

 

[Digger]

It's ironic to see Dr Mas talking about standards on here slipping....when he is one of the main reasons the forum is going to pot...disagree no bother, think someone is wrong...but time and again I look on here to find page after page cluttered up with the DR vortex...where he refuses to have anyone else have the last word. It becomes more pedantic as the thread goes on - to the extent it's sometimes an argument about semantics or something equally mundane...the fact is that this forum is dominated by a few - Dr being one...so to say standards are slipping...Jesus.

But on topic...JV could shoot someone and Dr would defend him so really there is no point in anyone engaging here.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

How are those statements mutually exclusive?

From the 'statements' (your word, we will be nice and use it) -
If the sport is rotten to its core, then it matters little who is in charge.
The more accurate part is that McQ runs the sport, he is the rotten element.

Since when did Mcq give a toss about the amateur side of it?

The sport might change when the UCI is burnt down and rebuilt, not a hand over from McQuaid to Cookson.

Just a reminder, you were trying to show that you were not an extremist.

 

[Digger]

that JV jumped the sinking McBruggen ship doesn't mean he wasn't sailing with them when the winds were favorable.

where was jv's outcry when armstrong returned in 2009?

never mind jv's treatment of tyler in 2008.
Shows me JV isn't exacty the nicest guy. But anti-doping? of course.

his Clinic campaign was a clever move, by the way. The press now applauds him for engaging with the fans in online forums -- mission accomplished.

So come on guys, give me one reason to trust him already.

JV is PR. And you are spot on in your post...his version of the truth changes annually...depending on the circumstance and the consequences.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

It's ironic to see Dr Mas talking about standards on here slipping....when he is one of the main reasons the forum is going to pot...disagree no bother, think someone is wrong...but time and again I look on here to find page after page cluttered up with the DR vortex...where he refuses to have anyone else have the last word. It becomes more pedantic as the thread goes on - to the extent it's sometimes an argument about semantics or something equally mundane...the fact is that this forum is dominated by a few - Dr being one...so to say standards are slipping...Jesus.

But on topic...JV could shoot someone and Dr would defend him so really there is no point in anyone engaging here.

Nice of you to come along Digger,
I was following your "F*ck the Hypocrisy' name on twitter and thought that the anger management was paying off as it was quiet for a while - but then I realized you blocked me - no hypocrisy there.

To the highlighted - pretty simple. No, I am not a fan of JV (but not a hater either)and even opened a thread here before that peed him off and upset his 'fans' when I thought he should have admitted his own doping, long before he finally did admit.

 

[Benotti69]

The more accurate part is that McQ runs the sport, he is the rotten element.

What about Hein and all the lackies that do their bidding? They get a free pass? Nope not in my book.

Just a reminder, you were trying to show that you were not an extremist.

Nope wrong again.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

What about Hein and all the lackies that do their bidding? They get a free pass? Nope not in my book.

Nor in mine - but YOU only mentioned McQuaid, in your "McQuaid runs the sport" yak.

Nope wrong again.

No, when you write "The sport might change when the UCI is burnt down and rebuilt, not a hand over from McQuaid to Cookson" - that is an extremist view.

 

[Benotti69]

Nor in mine - but YOU only mentioned McQuaid, in your "McQuaid runs the sport" yak.

yakittyyak...........would you like the full staff listed?

No, when you write "The sport might change when the UCI is burnt down and rebuilt, not a hand over from McQuaid to Cookson" - that is an extremist view.

Since when do you get to decide on views and opinions, oh I forgot the vortex has belched.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

yakittyyak...........would you like the full staff listed?

Are you offering?
I didn't think so - however if you did, you might finally see the forest from the tree's and direct your anger at the correct people rather than the scatter gun (or dare I say it 'extremist') approach.

Since when do you get to decide on views and opinions, oh I forgot the vortex has belched.

The moment you post it up online on a public forum I am allowed to come to that conclusion.
If you don't want to come across as having extreme views, then articulate your points better. Your choice.

 

[Benotti69]

Are you offering?
I didn't think so - however if you did, you might finally see the forest from the tree's and direct your anger at the correct people rather than the scatter gun (or dare I say it 'extremist') approach.

know anyone in aigle who has leaked any info on say Armstrong? Nope then i lump them all together.

The moment you post it up online on a public forum I am allowed to come to that conclusion.
If you don't want to come across as having extreme views, then articulate your points better. Your choice.

Your conclusion is wrong. I shall not be changing to suit the Vortex.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

know anyone in aigle who has leaked any info on say Armstrong? Nope then i lump them all together.

Off topic, but - and we will leave these questions to work out in your own time.

What 'info' exposing Armstrong is in Aigle?
How many people KNEW directly about Armstrong (although you are being vague on what this info is).
The people running BMX? The ladies working in the restaurant?

That you lump all together seems, well you know....

Your conclusion is wrong. I shall not be changing to suit the Vortex.

You are perfectly entitled not to change.
And I am also perfectly entitled to question your posts. And since we have come to that agreement I no longer expect you to refer me querying your posts as a vortex.

 

[pmcg76]

JV came here to satisfy some personal need.



In your opinion. I dont have extreme views. The pro side of the sport is corrupt and rotten to its core. JV is part of that. Yes he helped bring down the biggest doper and fraud in the history of sport, but others did more and suffered more.
McQuaid runs the sport.

Some want to believe in a cleanER sport. But there maybe less doping than previously but that dont make it cleanER at levels that are acceptable. GT winners still dope.

My view will change when the sport changes and by the looks of the UCI election that is not going to happen anytime soon.

One of those who did more than JV was David Walsh, what is his standing currently in the clinic??

Its a fine line between hero and villain in your world, if RadioShack had given Floyd a job, none of this would have gone anywhere yet Floyd is lauded as a hero by many. Yes, a hero when he had no other options left. I respect what he did but that don't make him some hero in my book.

Ditto Tyler, I respect these guys but they got themselves into their own ****ty positions long before they outed Lance. Chances are if they had not ****ed things up for themselves and still had standing in the sport, they would have probably have done less than JV.

Who really had more to lose than JV, LeMond, the Andreus??? They got far more vindication when the truth finally came out than JV did.

Other than these people being vindicated by being right, what has it really done for the sport??? You guys are as cynical as ever and believe nothing has changed and doping is prevalent so what has all the crusading done other than take Lance down.

 

[pmcg76]

I'm uninformed about the spanish doctors on Garmin–just don't know anything about it so maybe either here or in PM you could give me some info to follow up on.

I don't consider locating a team in Girona to be evidence of anything. Seems that's where a lot of American teams/riders have been going and it seems a good place to live and train with the weather. Could be what you suggest but it's pretty thin w/o supporting evidence.

The Girona doping myth has been debunked a million times on here but he still keeps dragging it up. Anyone who ever read the USADA report would understand that doping took place anywhere and everywhere and Girona just happened to be where these guys lived.