JV talks, sort of

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Mar 13, 2009
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for the comeback i dont think anyone believes Kritin had to ask LA, or LA had to get her permission. She was afterall, at one time, a motowoman and taking the lunchbags with good lit reading n edgar allen poe
 
Jul 5, 2009
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Hold the phone.

If JV was never given AC's blood passport data *and* Gripper made any kind of comment to JV about his "cleanliness", then that represents an extraordinary level of corruption!

It's been reported by JV himself that he never got to the point of seeing the data. I consider that a confirmed fact. If RR hasn't mis-spoken, then Ms. Gripper has done something really awful.

Can you imagine a scenario where some (not all) directors/team owners can call up the UCI and get a thumbs up/down on a particular rider? <wink> <wink> Rider A has now been blackballed from the sport! Based on inside, privileged information! About medical records!!

I truly hope this is a misunderstanding on my part.

John Swanson
 
May 18, 2009
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ScienceIsCool said:
Hold the phone.

If JV was never given AC's blood passport data *and* Gripper made any kind of comment to JV about his "cleanliness", then that represents an extraordinary level of corruption!

It's been reported by JV himself that he never got to the point of seeing the data. I consider that a confirmed fact. If RR hasn't mis-spoken, then Ms. Gripper has done something really awful.

Can you imagine a scenario where some (not all) directors/team owners can call up the UCI and get a thumbs up/down on a particular rider? <wink> <wink> Rider A has now been blackballed from the sport! Based on inside, privileged information! About medical records!!

I truly hope this is a misunderstanding on my part.

John Swanson
What I remember, and this was awhile back, was that JV saw his numbers and thought he could win clean. I found it incredulous at the time that somebody could look at PED induced numbers and come to that conclusion. But, whatever.

This contradicts what you and others remember. Too bad JV has gone AWOL.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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Race Radio said:
JV asked Griper how Contador's values were and she gave him the all clear.
Yeah, when you consider Hamilton had an offscore of what, 132.9 in 2004 an offscore of 110/120 by Contador would be considered ''all clear'' by Griper? One has to be a total nutcracker to get caught by the biopassport. Even a 38 year old bikeshopowner from Austin Texas doesnt get flagged by it.

ChrisE said:
What I remember, and this was awhile back, was that JV saw his numbers and thought he could win clean. I found it incredulous at the time that somebody could look at PED induced numbers and come to that conclusion. But, whatever.

This contradicts what you and others remember. Too bad JV has gone AWOL.
JV had inside knowledge due to Inigo San Millan, who tested Conti as a junior racer.

And, to be clear, Conti's power numbers of the last year - Vuelta 2012/Tour 2013 are very consistent.
 
May 26, 2009
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Yeah, when you consider Hamilton had an offscore of what, 132.9 in 2004 an offscore of 110/120 by Contador would be considered ''all clear'' by Griper? One has to be a total nutcracker to get caught by the biopassport. Even a 38 year old bikeshopowner from Austin Texas doesnt get flagged by it.

JV had inside knowledge due to Inigo San Millan, who tested Conti as a junior racer.

And, to be clear, Conti's power numbers of the last year - Vuelta 2012/Tour 2013 are very consistent.
Yeah and he's not that great on the climbs anymore.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Netserk said:
I thought JV said that they never got to the point where he saw his passport. :confused:
This was 4 years ago, I may have it incorrect. I think you are right though that they never got to that point. As I remember Velonews has a small story about various teams interest in AC and that UCI said his blood values were good. Perhaps it was another DS who said it but I do remember some form of vouching for his values
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Yeah, when you consider Hamilton had an offscore of what, 132.9 in 2004 an offscore of 110/120 by Contador would be considered ''all clear'' by Griper? One has to be a total nutcracker to get caught by the biopassport. Even a 38 year old bikeshopowner from Austin Texas doesnt get flagged by it.
The Biopassport did not exist in 2004 and Gripper did not work at the UCI until 2006 so I doubt she looked the Tyler or Levi's crazy blood values.

Armstrong's values were not give to the review panel after May of 2009.
 
Just to back up this version that I was also told about Gripper discussing values with JV...AND she also told JV that the initials AC on the Puerto files were those of Antonio Colom...something which couldn't be possible because the initials AC were in the middle of other Liberty Sigueros names.

So Science is Cool is correct - this is and was a ridiculous conflict of interests by both.
 
Jul 5, 2009
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Race Radio said:
This was 4 years ago, I may have it incorrect. I think you are right though that they never got to that point. As I remember Velonews has a small story about various teams interest in AC and that UCI said his blood values were good. Perhaps it was another DS who said it but I do remember some form of vouching for his values
I can accept that, except for that fact that you were explicit in stating it was Gripper. That's awfully precise for someone who doesn't remember and not part of what I would associate with your (online) sense of character.

If it was AC releasing his bio-passport via the UCI, then okay. But that's not what was stated, and not my prior understanding of what happened.

In fact, if it is as you say, "that UCI said his blood values were good" and this was a judgement given by the UCI - not the authorized release of his bio-passport then we are in the same bad state of affairs. Regardless of who at the UCI did that, it is corruption on an enormous scale.

John Swanson
 
Sep 29, 2012
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ChrisE said:
What I remember, and this was awhile back, was that JV saw his numbers and thought he could win clean. I found it incredulous at the time that somebody could look at PED induced numbers and come to that conclusion. But, whatever.

This contradicts what you and others remember. Too bad JV has gone AWOL.
Dude, seriously? JV has seen 100s, nay 1000s of profiles. He's like a walking blood profile analysis super computer. He can spot clean performances at 15,000km distance.

;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
 
May 18, 2009
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Dear Wiggo said:
Dude, seriously? JV has seen 100s, nay 1000s of profiles. He's like a walking blood profile analysis super computer. He can spot clean performances at 15,000km distance.
You should mix in some emoticons so any new members will know that you are kidding.

FGL thinks my memory is bad. Maybe so, or maybe JV was discussing his power numbers at the time instead of blood profiles. I do remember calling BS with his reasoning AC could win clean, because the world at that time had never seen what that would look like.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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ScienceIsCool said:
I can accept that, except for that fact that you were explicit in stating it was Gripper. That's awfully precise for someone who doesn't remember and not part of what I would associate with your (online) sense of character.

If it was AC releasing his bio-passport via the UCI, then okay. But that's not what was stated, and not my prior understanding of what happened.

In fact, if it is as you say, "that UCI said his blood values were good" and this was a judgement given by the UCI - not the authorized release of his bio-passport then we are in the same bad state of affairs. Regardless of who at the UCI did that, it is corruption on an enormous scale.

John Swanson
Dude, I am not a computer.

If would not be the first time someone at the UCI vouched for Contador

http://velonews.competitor.com/2008/03/news/road/mcquaid-to-contador-ive-got-your-back_73319

“I know Contador and the people around him and I know that he is a clean and honest rider,”
Pretty sure this was covered on the forum 4 years ago when the story of Contador and Slipstream came out. Might want search for it as I cannot seem to find it.
 
Jul 5, 2009
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Race Radio said:
Dude, I am not a computer.

If would not be the first time someone at the UCI vouched for Contador

http://velonews.competitor.com/2008/03/news/road/mcquaid-to-contador-ive-got-your-back_73319



Pretty sure this was covered on the forum 4 years ago when the story of Contador and Slipstream came out. Might want search for it as I cannot seem to find it.
Fair one. You have a voice of authority in this forum. When you say that person X said Y, I and many others are going to take that at face value. When you said that Ms. Gripper told JV that AC has a clean bio-passport, that's what I took as what you wanted to convey.

In the future, I will be a bit less literal in my understanding of your statements.

John Swanson
 
Mar 13, 2009
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ScienceIsCool said:
Fair one. You have a voice of authority in this forum. When you say that person X said Y, I and many others are going to take that at face value. When you said that Ms. Gripper told JV that AC has a clean bio-passport, that's what I took as what you wanted to convey.

In the future, I will be a bit less literal in my understanding of your statements.

John Swanson
actually, see the Richie Porte thread, RR got criticised there.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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ScienceIsCool said:
Fair one. You have a voice of authority in this forum. When you say that person X said Y, I and many others are going to take that at face value. When you said that Ms. Gripper told JV that AC has a clean bio-passport, that's what I took as what you wanted to convey.

In the future, I will be a bit less literal in my understanding of your statements.

John Swanson
you've made a couple of clever points in this regard. I agree on all accounts, even though it's hardly shocking to learn once more that the UCI is corrupt.

Vaughters has made several remarks in here suggesting he is (or at least was) on rather good terms with Gripper, indeed, the head of UCI anti-doping.

'conflict of interest' is UCI's middle name
 
Jul 21, 2012
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JV seems to have abandoned this thread for good. Its been a rough year for "speeds are down"

Or maybe he is preparing a comeback for the 2014 tour now that we know its possible for 41 year olds to win grand tours clean :rolleyes:
 
the sceptic said:
JV seems to have abandoned this thread for good. Its been a rough year for "speeds are down"

Or maybe he is preparing a comeback for the 2014 tour now that we know its possible for 41 year olds to win grand tours clean :rolleyes:
Maybe JV is preparing to make a comeback to pro cycling himself, now he's been inspired by Horner.
 
Aug 7, 2010
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the sceptic said:
JV seems to have abandoned this thread for good. Its been a rough year for "speeds are down"

Or maybe he is preparing a comeback for the 2014 tour now that we know its possible for 41 year olds to win grand tours clean :rolleyes:
He is all over the Stephen Roche Triple Crown for 2014.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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the sceptic said:
JV seems to have abandoned this thread for good. Its been a rough year for "speeds are down"

Or maybe he is preparing a comeback for the 2014 tour now that we know its possible for 41 year olds to win grand tours clean :rolleyes:
Or it could be he's busy finishing up his Masters Degree while running a WT team.
 
the sceptic said:
JV seems to have abandoned this thread for good. Its been a rough year for "speeds are down"

Or maybe he is preparing a comeback for the 2014 tour now that we know its possible for 41 year olds to win grand tours clean :rolleyes:
I must have heard him make that very statement, qualified by "on average", at least a half dozen, if not a full dozen, times at the Armstrong Lie premiere.

Honest.

He said it on stage during the Q+A, and then afterwards as he made his way up to the waiting limo.

The interesting bit (for me) was the qualification, "If you look at the top performers, on average and not at the extremes, power output and speed are down" (forgive me if there is some slight paraphrasing in that, but it is pretty close if not exactly what he said multiple times)

So, who was he singling out 'at the extremes'?

Dave.
 
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