JV talks, sort of

[Nick C.]

actually, Armstrong never even did a medical test with Cofidis, he had not passed the medical test when he was diagnosed, but he still wanted the 2 million in 1996 money, paid to him.

they paid him 100% first year, and 50% second year. When the contract would have be null and void if he had to pass the health tests to make the contract valid. So Cofidis went over and above what they were legally entitled to, and even over and above what they were morally and ethically bound to also.

Really? wow all this time I was under the impression that evil cheap French Cofidis was trying to avoid paying him at all. Then again it has been a decade or so since I read the book and at the time I was new to following having turned on OLN to watch a fishing show and seen the '04 Tour on instead after having returned from a morning bike ride.

 

[blackcat]

Really? wow all this time I was under the impression that evil cheap French Cofidis was trying to avoid paying him at all. Then again it has been a decade or so since I read the book and at the time I was new to following having turned on OLN to watch a fishing show and seen the '04 Tour on instead after having returned from a morning bike ride.

he had signed a contract. But the contract specified a medical approval, before it was valid. ergo, not validated.

 

[Nick C.]

he had signed a contract. But the contract specified a medical approval, before it was valid. ergo, not validated.

I wasn't disagreeing, just surprised that there was yet another half truth to add to from the book.

 

[blackcat]

I wasn't disagreeing, just surprised that there was yet another half truth to add to from the book.

oh, there is an inverted truth in anything sally jenkins wrote and ghostwrote for Lance.

Sally Jenkins ghostwriting = lies.

she is not an alumnus of Iowa Writers College

 

[pastronef]

https://www.twitter.com/Vaughters/status/555769816041013248

sms Vansummeren-Vaughters

 

[D-Queued]

https://www.twitter.com/Vaughters/status/555769816041013248

sms Vansummeren-Vaughters

Hmm...

... shall we conclude that there was no love lost and feelings were mutual?

Dave.

 

[thehog]

Hmm...

... shall we conclude that there was no love lost and feelings were mutual?

Dave.

Seeing as he was "gifted" a PR win, he should be happy.

 

[Netserk]

In the same thread:

@Vaughters

@atpgt probably because hiring Nick was one of the bigger mistakes (waste of budget) that I have ever made.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

In the same thread:

@Vaughters

@atpgt probably because hiring Nick was one of the bigger mistakes (waste of budget) that I have ever made.

That tweet itself is pretty benign. I'd agree that its fair to discuss business, and there is nothing personal in that tweet alone. But as it fits into his overall body of media/twitter work, it's frustrating to watch.

Looking at ti all, I would say that I can't believe that JV can't take that one rational step; he acts surprised and distraught that his riders have complained to the media, and then does the same. He agitates and antagonizes, and then plays the victim of the reaction.

But I can believe it. I work in a middle school, and see the behavior all the time. Some 12, 13, and 14 year olds just don't yet have the cognition for empathy and understanding their impact on others.

 

[Benotti69]

That tweet itself is pretty benign. I'd agree that its fair to discuss business, and there is nothing personal in that tweet alone. But as it fits into his overall body of media/twitter work, it's frustrating to watch.

Looking at ti all, I would say that I can't believe that JV can't take that one rational step; he acts surprised and distraught that his riders have complained to the media, and then does the same. He agitates and antagonizes, and then plays the victim of the reaction.

But I can believe it. I work in a middle school, and see the behavior all the time. Some 12, 13, and 14 year olds just don't yet have the cognition for empathy and understanding their impact on others.

JV has shown this plenty of times. He has thrown his toys out of the pram in here and thrown the insults around after people didn't bow at his feet.

No doubt JV's ego is big. Probably thinks he would have been better without EPO.....like Ryder....

 

[sniper]

I guess many feel sore when their team doctors notice health problems and ignore them..

This, the proper response to coinneach' curious attempt to portray Nuyens as bitter with an axe to grind.

A week ago Vaughters was on the record claiming the riders he fires are extra sad because they consider him as his friend.
there seem to be a couple of exceptions to that 'rule'

 

[Dear Wiggo]

That tweet itself is pretty benign. I'd agree that its fair to discuss business, and there is nothing personal in that tweet alone. But as it fits into his overall body of media/twitter work, it's frustrating to watch.

Looking at ti all, I would say that I can't believe that JV can't take that one rational step; he acts surprised and distraught that his riders have complained to the media, and then does the same. He agitates and antagonizes, and then plays the victim of the reaction.

But I can believe it. I work in a middle school, and see the behavior all the time. Some 12, 13, and 14 year olds just don't yet have the cognition for empathy and understanding their impact on others.

Calling hiring someone "a waste of budget" is benign?

And you then go on to say, "gee people cannot empathise"?

Colour me confused.

 

[pastronef]

Seeing as he was "gifted" a PR win, he should be happy.

he earned that win, the race circumstances helped him a bit, but he deserved that race.

 

[thehog]

he earned that win, the race circumstances helped him a bit, but he deserved that race.

He did earn it but the events played into his hands nicely and he knew he'd never win anything every again. Vaughters could have easily told him to slow down and wait for Thor or allow Thor to attack to bridge.

 

[blackcat]

Calling hiring someone "a waste of budget" is benign?

And you then go on to say, "gee people cannot empathise"?

Colour me confused.

but this fails to recognise the rule of thumb in riders salary structures.

ok, they have started to include bonuses, prolly in the last 3 or 4 decades even, especially for the heads of state at the three week tours.

but basically, your wage is an annual lag. You get paid on your results for last year. So if you win a monument, you can now jump to a tier paying you 400k euro, and same if you win a TourdF stage.

And in the swings and roundabouts, JV will get riders who start riding like jose miguel pecharroman, ok, JV might have a bonus structure that pays him out to reflect a degree of his performance, but if he fails to perform like nicky nuyens, no bonus neither...

JV does do a shrew quite well. And folks criticise Betsy. She could take a few tips in shrew101 from JV. But JV is getting a little fat with middle age mid paunch n corpulence. he is no chairman of the Denver gallery of fine art who have to bad faith their beer gut.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

but this fails to recognise the rule of thumb in riders salary structures.

Sorry, I didn't follow the hiring or performances of Nuyens all that closely. IF there are not aerial shots of castles and valleys I pretty much switch off.

Was Nuyens hired as a team leader or dom? Coz I am pretty sure if not the former then he wasn't being paid squat and regardless, calling him a waste of budget is anything but benign. It's insulting.

 

[sniper]

IF there are not aerial shots of castles and valleys I pretty much switch off.

lol

Was Nuyens hired as a team leader or dom? Coz I am pretty sure if not the former then he wasn't being paid squat and regardless, calling him a waste of budget is anything but benign. It's insulting.

indeed, and clearly intentional.

Nuyens without a contract and with heart problems.
And JV still has the need to publicly belittle him...

 

[Nick C.]

He did earn it but the events played into his hands nicely and he knew he'd never win anything every again. Vaughters could have easily told him to slow down and wait for Thor or allow Thor to attack to bridge.

True, but considering Thor was spending the race marking Cancellara do you really think if Thor attacked Cancellara would not have been with him?

 

[Benotti69]

Sorry, I didn't follow the hiring or performances of Nuyens all that closely. IF there are not aerial shots of castles and valleys I pretty much switch off.

Was Nuyens hired as a team leader or dom? Coz I am pretty sure if not the former then he wasn't being paid squat and regardless, calling him a waste of budget is anything but benign. It's insulting.

Absolutely insulting considering the team knew he had heart problems and did not tell him.

JVs time as rider is hardly earth shattering either.

 

[thehog]

True, but considering Thor was spending the race marking Cancellara do you really think if Thor attacked Cancellara would not have been with him?

Vaughters made the right decision that day. Canc would have followed Thor and would have probably won.

I was just pointing out that JVS won Roubaix because of Vaughters and that's why he is very complementary towards him.

 

[Nick C.]

Vaughters made the right decision that day. Canc would have followed Thor and would have probably won.

I was just pointing out that JVS won Roubaix because of Vaughters and that's why he is very complementary towards him.

True, and probably why Thor was so well, un-God of Thunder like, about his time with the team (along with the bonus issue).

 

[thehog]

True, and probably why Thor was so well, un-God of Thunder like, about his time with the team (along with the bonus issue).

Agreed.......

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Calling hiring someone "a waste of budget" is benign?

And you then go on to say, "gee people cannot empathise"?

Colour me confused.

(First, I'll say I didn't read the conversation with @atpgt.)

In racing, the commodity is performance. It is tied to a rider in a personal way, but it is the product of the sport. It needs to be separated from personality in the operation of the sport.

There is a way to say "You were a waste of budget" and make it a personal attack. There is also a way to say "You were a waste of budget" and make it a business discussion.

I didn't read the conversation. But that comment by itself, a team manager talking about their budget, is in the apersonal category. (If he said immediately before that Nueyens was a needy little snot that the underperformed out of spite, or whatever, then the conversation would obviously be personal).

 

[Netserk]

True, but considering Thor was spending the race marking Cancellara do you really think if Thor attacked Cancellara would not have been with him?

Considering that Canc still got away from him in the end, it's obvious that Garmin's only chance was JVS. Hushovd would have a point in crying over the team's tactics that day if he had followed Canc all the way and outsprinted him, but he didn't.

 

[blackcat]

Sorry, I didn't follow the hiring or performances of Nuyens all that closely. IF there are not aerial shots of castles and valleys I pretty much switch off.

Was Nuyens hired as a team leader or dom? Coz I am pretty sure if not the former then he wasn't being paid squat and regardless, calling him a waste of budget is anything but benign. It's insulting.

was not disagreeing with you DW. Merely offering a devil's advocate rebuttal about JV whinging about wasting his salary budget.

for every rider one may have paid "overs" for, you are likely to have paid "unders" for another rider. Swings and roundabouts. road furniture.