JV talks, sort of

[MarkvW]

The past as predictor...

 

[blackcat]

love the Hog's emoji's

#genius

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

I am as happy as the next person to out JV as a BS artist, but I am a messy person and yet when I leave a place, I clean it out.

I cannot buy the idea that any doper leaves doping refuse lying around in an apartment they have vacated.

Just does not gel. I don't think JV is as smart as most other people seem to think either, but this is a level of dumb I can't agree with.

You'd also think that a team wouldn't use a public waste bin for transfusion disposal but there was that incident with Astana in 2009

 

[Jacques de Molay]

Re:

I cannot buy the idea that any doper leaves doping refuse lying around in an apartment they have vacated.

Pretty sure this goes back to the USADA affidavits.

In Hincapie's statement, he says that Johan sent him to Lance's Girona apartment after the 2005 Tour to make sure no doping products were left behind (in the closets). So even at that level, there was concern over, well, stupidity.

But there's an old JV story, as I recall, that relates to him being a sloppy roommate, and after he moved out of one his Girona apartments, the new guys (and I'll have to go back to remember who it was) found various doping items left behind (under the bed, if memory serves).

I don't recall the landlord being involved with this particular incident though, so it may have happened more than once. It probably wasn't the same apartment building that they used that was owned by Jonny Weltz either, as I can't imagined he'd be too "shocked" by anything that he discovered under the rugs.

I also don't think this is as explosive a revelation as some might be hoping for.

[Edit]
Hmmm, after considering this some more, maybe it is the same incident after all. They were likely not "shocked" by the products themselves, but by the stupidity of leaving them behind.

Off for some reading...

[Edit #2]
And here it is. Good old Michael Barry. (Page 7)
http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Barry,+Michael+Affidavit.pdf
Vande Velde offered to have Barry move into their Girona apartment because one of the rooms was being vacated by Vaughters.

Christain took me to the apartment and showed my to my new room. The room had not been cleaned out since Jonathan left, so I got to work clearing it out. I remember finding empty syringes and ampules under the bed. I was shocked and unsettled by the fact that Jonathan had moved out of the room without disposing the syringes and ampules, but I did not know specifically what they had been used for. I gathered everything up and threw it in the garbage.

Yeah, 'cuz throwing it all in the trash sounds like a brilliant maneuver as well. FFS.

So that's it. Johan is just trolling as usual, with old news.

The "landlord"? Yeah, probably Weltz after all.
The "pro cyclists? Barry, CVV and the crew.

BFD

 

[Jacques de Molay]

love the Hog's emoji's

#genius

Pretty funny coming from the same guy who, as CVV recounted in his own USADA statement:

[2001]
Dr. del Moral gave me some cortisone and told me to take one half of a ampoule then and the other half later. Johan was present, however, and he took the other half of the vile and injected himself right there.

Earning the "Hog" nickname 24/7.

WTF?!

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

I cannot buy the idea that any doper leaves doping refuse lying around in an apartment they have vacated.

Pretty sure this goes back to the USADA affidavits.

In Hincapie's statement, he says that Johan sent him to Lance's Girona apartment after the 2005 Tour to make sure no doping products were left behind (in the closets). So even at that level, there was concern over, well, stupidity.

But there's an old JV story, as I recall, that relates to him being a sloppy roommate, and after he moved out of one his Girona apartments, the new guys (and I'll have to go back to remember who it was) found various doping items left behind (under the bed, if memory serves).

I don't recall the landlord being involved with this particular incident though, so it may have happened more than once. It probably wasn't the same apartment building that they used that was owned by Jonny Weltz either, as I can't imagined he'd be too "shocked" by anything that he discovered under the rugs.

I also don't think this is as explosive a revelation as some might be hoping for.

[Edit]
Hmmm, after considering this some more, maybe it is the same incident after all. They were likely not "shocked" by the products themselves, but by the stupidity of leaving them behind.

Off for some reading...

[Edit #2]
And here it is. Good old Michael Barry. (Page 7)
http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Barry,+Michael+Affidavit.pdf
Vande Velde offered to have Barry move into their Girona apartment because one of the rooms was being vacated by Vaughters.

Christain took me to the apartment and showed my to my new room. The room had not been cleaned out since Jonathan left, so I got to work clearing it out. I remember finding empty syringes and ampules under the bed. I was shocked and unsettled by the fact that Jonathan had moved out of the room without disposing the syringes and ampules, but I did not know specifically what they had been used for. I gathered everything up and threw it in the garbage.

Yeah, 'cuz throwing it all in the trash sounds like a brilliant maneuver as well. FFS.

So that's it. Johan is just trolling as usual, with old news.

The "landlord"? Yeah, probably Weltz after all.
The "pro cyclists? CVV and the crew.

BFD

yeah, assume Hog is like Prance and cant get an honest response from him.

so... I learn that Barry spells ampules as ampules, and he may be correct. i cant be bothered going to the googles.

so this is indeed news to me. how about you? i always spelled ampoules as ampoules and edgar as edgar

 

[blackcat]

love the Hog's emoji's

#genius

Pretty funny coming from the same guy who, as CVV recounted in his own USADA statement:

[2001]
Dr. del Moral gave me some cortisone and told me to take one half of a ampoule then and the other half later. Johan was present, however, and he took the other half of the vile and injected himself right there.

Earning the "Hog" nickname 24/7.

WTF?!

Hog conflates nutrition and appetite with edgar.

should we really compare him to porcine? i think Hog is hard done by, but his physiognomy does have specific porcinus feature.

 

[blackcat]

is Dede just another one of the enablers like Odessa and Cound and Radcliffe's coach?

Motowomen?

and Radcliffe's coach husband, batman...

 

[Jacques de Molay]

Re: Re:

so... I learn that Barry spells ampules as ampules, and he may be correct. i cant be bothered going to the googles.

so this is indeed news to me. how about you? i always spelled ampoules as ampoules and edgar as edgar

It depends. It depends.

MB

I remember finding empty syringes and ampules...

CVV

Dr. del Moral gave me some cortisone and told me to take one half of a ampoule...

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

so... I learn that Barry spells ampules as ampules, and he may be correct. i cant be bothered going to the googles.

so this is indeed news to me. how about you? i always spelled ampoules as ampoules and edgar as edgar

It depends. It depends.

MB

I remember finding empty syringes and ampules...

CVV

Dr. del Moral gave me some cortisone and told me to take one half of a ampoule...

and mrs CVV spells bottles of hgh in the fridge in gerona as "$h!t scared" get the damn drugs out of the fridge CVV or no coitus, no Gauloises bleu."

 

[Benotti69]

wonder does JV leave empty wine bottles under the bed with syringes nowadays? probably.....

 

[sniper]

any journo who still cites JV as an antidoping crusader is guilty of active bandwagoning. That, or very sloppy journalism.

 

[sniper]

Re:

I am as happy as the next person to out JV as a BS artist, but I am a messy person and yet when I leave a place, I clean it out.

I cannot buy the idea that any doper leaves doping refuse lying around in an apartment they have vacated.

Just does not gel. I don't think JV is as smart as most other people seem to think either, but this is a level of dumb I can't agree with.

Maybe JV left stuff in the fridge.
It's a tweet, so no room for detail. Bruyneel probably exaggerates. But still the story sounds too specific for Bruyneel to be making it up, imo. If he'd be making stuff up, he could probably invent more damning stories.

 

[Jacques de Molay]

Re: Re:

It's a tweet, so no room for detail.

Did you read upthread? I provided all the details.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=1846102#p1846102

I cannot buy the idea that any doper leaves doping refuse lying around in an apartment they have vacated.

Pretty sure this goes back to the USADA affidavits.

In Hincapie's statement, he says that Johan sent him to Lance's Girona apartment after the 2005 Tour to make sure no doping products were left behind (in the closets). So even at that level, there was concern over, well, stupidity.

But there's an old JV story, as I recall, that relates to him being a sloppy roommate, and after he moved out of one his Girona apartments, the new guys (and I'll have to go back to remember who it was) found various doping items left behind (under the bed, if memory serves).

I don't recall the landlord being involved with this particular incident though, so it may have happened more than once. It probably wasn't the same apartment building that they used that was owned by Jonny Weltz either, as I can't imagined he'd be too "shocked" by anything that he discovered under the rugs.

I also don't think this is as explosive a revelation as some might be hoping for.

[Edit]
Hmmm, after considering this some more, maybe it is the same incident after all. They were likely not "shocked" by the products themselves, but by the stupidity of leaving them behind.

Off for some reading...

[Edit #2]
And here it is. Good old Michael Barry. (Page 7)
http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Barry,+Michael+Affidavit.pdf
Vande Velde offered to have Barry move into their Girona apartment because one of the rooms was being vacated by Vaughters.

Christain took me to the apartment and showed my to my new room. The room had not been cleaned out since Jonathan left, so I got to work clearing it out. I remember finding empty syringes and ampules under the bed. I was shocked and unsettled by the fact that Jonathan had moved out of the room without disposing the syringes and ampules, but I did not know specifically what they had been used for. I gathered everything up and threw it in the garbage.

Yeah, 'cuz throwing it all in the trash sounds like a brilliant maneuver as well. FFS.

So that's it. Johan is just trolling as usual, with old news.

The "landlord"? Yeah, probably Weltz after all.
The "pro cyclists? Barry, CVV and the crew.

BFD

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

I am as happy as the next person to out JV as a BS artist, but I am a messy person and yet when I leave a place, I clean it out.

I cannot buy the idea that any doper leaves doping refuse lying around in an apartment they have vacated.

Just does not gel. I don't think JV is as smart as most other people seem to think either, but this is a level of dumb I can't agree with.

Maybe JV left stuff in the fridge.
It's a tweet, so no room for detail. Bruyneel probably exaggerates. But still the story sounds too specific for Bruyneel to be making it up, imo. If he'd be making stuff up, he could probably invent more damning stories.

but this could be a transference, or countertransference.

we read about Russian teams and the hotel maids cleaner-uppers (verb neologism) [sic]

so we can believe this is what it was like before Festina, and touring travel hotel rooms during July in France... even after with USPS, but they got rid of the medical waste and acto acto acto wut? and the insulin in bins far out...

so we can assume riders homes n apartments in Girona were like this also...

so what Hog coulda done, is transfer specificity, but change the name to JV? see how this works. psychology101

 

[Jacques de Molay]

Re: Re:

so what Hog coulda done, is transfer specificity, but change the name to JV?

No. I provided specificity, quite specifically.
It was JV, in Girona (with the candlestick!).
The story matches, right down to the "pro cyclist" being "shocked" quote.

How, and why, is this getting so convoluted?

I just hope that Matt Cooke has stopped hyperventilating.

 

[Anaconda]

Re: Re:

I cannot buy the idea that any doper leaves doping refuse lying around in an apartment they have vacated.

Pretty sure this goes back to the USADA affidavits.

In Hincapie's statement, he says that Johan sent him to Lance's Girona apartment after the 2005 Tour to make sure no doping products were left behind (in the closets). So even at that level, there was concern over, well, stupidity.

But there's an old JV story, as I recall, that relates to him being a sloppy roommate, and after he moved out of one his Girona apartments, the new guys (and I'll have to go back to remember who it was) found various doping items left behind (under the bed, if memory serves).

I don't recall the landlord being involved with this particular incident though, so it may have happened more than once. It probably wasn't the same apartment building that they used that was owned by Jonny Weltz either, as I can't imagined he'd be too "shocked" by anything that he discovered under the rugs.

I also don't think this is as explosive a revelation as some might be hoping for.

[Edit]
Hmmm, after considering this some more, maybe it is the same incident after all. They were likely not "shocked" by the products themselves, but by the stupidity of leaving them behind.

Off for some reading...

[Edit #2]
And here it is. Good old Michael Barry. (Page 7)
http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Barry,+Michael+Affidavit.pdf
Vande Velde offered to have Barry move into their Girona apartment because one of the rooms was being vacated by Vaughters.

Christain took me to the apartment and showed my to my new room. The room had not been cleaned out since Jonathan left, so I got to work clearing it out. I remember finding empty syringes and ampules under the bed. I was shocked and unsettled by the fact that Jonathan had moved out of the room without disposing the syringes and ampules, but I did not know specifically what they had been used for. I gathered everything up and threw it in the garbage.

Yeah, 'cuz throwing it all in the trash sounds like a brilliant maneuver as well. FFS.

So that's it. Johan is just trolling as usual, with old news.

The "landlord"? Yeah, probably Weltz after all.
The "pro cyclists? Barry, CVV and the crew.

BFD

Yeah its all old news and Johan just taking a dig at JV. Back to the linked Barry affidavit. In point 49. Barry mentions JV leaving empty EPO vials and T. patches in Credit Agricol bags from 2002 season. Seems odd Barry talked of JV's poor cleaning skills not once but twice in his affidavit. In this mention he made a point of connecting JV the doper with JV the rider on the CA clean team. He is also the one to bring into the public domain (though redacted in his affidavit) the name of Hesjedal. Wonder, was Barry taking a swipe at Ryder or JV when he did this?

JV's initial narrative when he first set up slipstream was that he was a doper just in the USPS days. Lying from day one. What a start for the leader of the savior of pro cycling/clean/transparent Team. This from an interview with ESPN in 2007.

Finally, there is Vaughters, who has all but admitted he took performance-enhancing drugs, but will not cross the line into specific confession.

Vaughters says he is beyond WADA's statute of limitations, but won't discuss details of his own past because of other people it involves. He contends his experience helps him understand the forces at work in the peloton and sift sincerity from hypocrisy. If his tightrope act isn't enough for critics, Vaughters says that's just too bad.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/slipstream?lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos1

Yeah, yeah old news, but I just always shake my head at the media/fans that take JV's word without question. Just shows how easy it is to fool all but about 12 people who follow pro cycling

 

[sniper]

great post, Anaconda.
"dedicated my life to anti-doping". *** me.

@jackdemoley: yes, had totally overlooked your post. Good post that was, and strong follow up by Anaconda.
I don't see a problem with Bruyneel lashing out at JV. Understandable. Bruyneel got exposed, JV didnt. Worse: JV tried to come out as a hero, at Bruyneel' expense.
People like JV and Millar is what the sport of cycling needs to shed. The ultimate hypocrits.

 

[Benotti69]

The more times it is mentioned that Vaughters lived a lie as a rider and lives a lie as owner of a WT team the better. The guy has rewritten his history to give the impression that USPS made him and others do it at Armstrong/Bruyneels command.

 

[Irondan]

Re:

The more times it is mentioned that Vaughters lived a lie as a rider and lives a lie as owner of a WT team the better. The guy has rewritten his history to give the impression that USPS made him and others do it at Armstrong/Bruyneels command.

It's the same re-writing of history that Tom Danielson is attempting to do.

Obviously, it works.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

The more times it is mentioned that Vaughters lived a lie as a rider and lives a lie as owner of a WT team the better. The guy has rewritten his history to give the impression that USPS made him and others do it at Armstrong/Bruyneels command.

It's the same re-writing of history that Tom Danielson is attempting to do.

Obviously, it works.

Yep it does. Hincapie now runs a team, has a big granfondo....CVdV commentating...Levi coaching and granfondo..etc

 

[Spawn of e]

Re:

The more times it is mentioned that Vaughters lived a lie as a rider and lives a lie as owner of a WT team the better. The guy has rewritten his history to give the impression that USPS made him and others do it at Armstrong/Bruyneels command.

And, no cortisone for bee stings under the bed either. What the victim.

 

[Jacques de Molay]

Re: Re:

Yeah its all old news and Johan just taking a dig at JV. Back to the linked Barry affidavit. In point 49. Barry mentions JV leaving empty EPO vials and T. patches in Credit Agricol bags from 2002 season. Seems odd Barry talked of JV's poor cleaning skills not once but twice in his affidavit. In this mention he made a point of connecting JV the doper with JV the rider on the CA clean team. He is also the one to bring into the public domain (though redacted in his affidavit) the name of Hesjedal. Wonder, was Barry taking a swipe at Ryder or JV when he did this?

Good question. It's interesting to read these things with the passage of time. Pretty damn funny, too.

However, by the time the Reasoned Decision was released to the public, JV had already openly admitted to using EPO in 2002, his last year with Crėdit Agricole.

Michael Barry's statement though, worth repeating:

49.
Prior to the start of the 2003 season, I moved out of the apartment I had shared with Christian Vande Velde and [redacted] during the 2002 season and into an apartment that had been vacated after the 2002 season by Jonathan Vaughters.

Just like the prior year, Jonathan had failed to clear out the apartment prior to moving out. There were empty EPO vials, used testosterone patches in Crédit Agricole team bags, and used syringes under the bed and in the closet. Fortunately, Christian was available to help me clear out all of Jonathan’s things and get moved into the apartment.

Too funny, really. He makes it sound as if there was just so much stuff left behind, that it took two people to get all the PED debris out of the place.

Seriously though, WTF, JV?

Yeah, Johan was taking a good pop at JV on Twitter, and pretty funny actually when JV is trying to advertise an apartment for rent. It's only when interpreted as news that the context got lost. I can imagine how Bruyneel just couldn't resist when he saw Vaughter's tweet.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Nah mate JV only used up the EPO he had from his time at USPostal.

Allegedly.

el oh fricken el.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

so what Hog coulda done, is transfer specificity, but change the name to JV?

No. I provided specificity, quite specifically.
It was JV, in Girona (with the candlestick!).
The story matches, right down to the "pro cyclist" being "shocked" quote.

How, and why, is this getting so convoluted?

I just hope that Matt Cooke has stopped hyperventilating.

yeah. I dont doubt that. I was just offering the alternative