JV talks, sort of

[Benotti69]

Re:

I have no issue with riders training with Armstrong - Especially when we consider many of the staff on teams are ex-dopers - Nothing to see here.

When we consider most if not all the staff on teams are former dopers or enabled doping, it is extraordinary that anyone would claim that the culture to dope has changed.

But hey JV and others would have us believe that doping is not cool...........

 

[Beech Mtn]

JV's episode of "Law & Order: SVU" was horrifying. That is all.

 

[sniper]

http://www.bicycling.com/racing/doping/are-tour-de-france-racers-cheating-with-secret-motors

“It’s not something I was ever concerned about as a rider or manager,” said Vaughters of the motor rumors.

How exactly, following RvV and PR 2010, could he not have been concerned about motoruse?

And can we infer that Vaughters was not one of the managers who expressed their worries about motors to AFLD's Verdy in 2015?

The motor-omerta from people related to Garmin is strong. I wonder why.

 

[Benotti69]

Vaughters still selling snakeoil...........bet when Vaughters is done with the sport he'll rewrite history again. Doping stopped in 2006. The next generation to cool to dope, yada yada.......the guy has made a pretty decent living from doping. Like for many in the sport. Doping pays.

 

[Benotti69]

Vaughters silence, from a man dedicating his life to anti-doping, on Sky is telling.

 

[sniper]

Re:

Vaughters silence, from a man dedicating his life to anti-doping, on Sky is telling.

understandable, after having gone on the record multiple times saying he thinks they're clean.

Those journos who still tout Vaughters as 'outspoken antidoping' should really take some time to rethink.

 

[Benotti69]

A N Other‏ @karlosophical 5h5 hours ago

So when @SirWiggo came 4th (3rd) in 2009 are @Vaughters + @millarmind saying it was pan y agua?
Can anyone in the sport say anything please?

Jonathan Vaughters‏ @Vaughters

@karlosophical Yeah, I think it was. *think* being the key word. Then, he went looking for that last .05% that separates 1st from 4th. Sad.

So in 2009 Vaughters told NYTimes they had an internal testing program. How did that internal system not show that Wiggins transformation from gruppetto to 4th in a GT was doping?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/sports/othersports/13cycling.html

Other teams also with 'alleged' internal testing programs? Astana, Saxo, Columbia and Sky. How did that pan out?

Who was running Garmin internal testing program? Don Caitlin. Another clown in sport. The circus rolls on.

 

[DamianoMachiavelli]

Re:

Vaughters silence, from a man dedicating his life to anti-doping, on Sky is telling.

Vaughters believed his own BS. He actually thought Wiggins was clean. He argued his belief to ex-Postal riders even though they laughed at how obvious Wiggins' doping was. After Wiggins TUEs were revealed, Vaughters made a private mea culpa. Don't expect him to do a public one.

Who knows what JV is thinking these days...other than cashing those big checks from Ellis.

 

[absolutely_not]

Re: Re:

Vaughters silence, from a man dedicating his life to anti-doping, on Sky is telling.

Vaughters believed his own BS. He actually thought Wiggins was clean. He argued his belief to ex-Postal riders even though they laughed at how obvious Wiggins' doping was. After Wiggins TUEs were revealed, Vaughters made a private mea culpa. Don't expect him to do a public one.

Who knows what JV is thinking these days...other than cashing those big checks from Ellis.

mea culpa about Wiggins being clean at Garmin or Sky?

In fairness to Vaughters he did say this on twitter : https://twitter.com/Vaughters/status/836991062614896641

If I understand what he said, he still thinks Wiggings was clean at Garmin (but isn't so sure anymore) and then doped at Sky. (wich I think is BS anyway since I don't believe one could finish 4th at 2009 Tour de France clean)

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Vaughters silence, from a man dedicating his life to anti-doping, on Sky is telling.

Vaughters believed his own BS. He actually thought Wiggins was clean. He argued his belief to ex-Postal riders even though they laughed at how obvious Wiggins' doping was. After Wiggins TUEs were revealed, Vaughters made a private mea culpa. Don't expect him to do a public one.

Who knows what JV is thinking these days...other than cashing those big checks from Ellis.

Vaughters is a total sleeveen.

No way JV stupid enough to think Wiggins can go from the bus to 4th in a GT at age 27. Even his ego doesn't cloud his brain.

The idea that Garmin had internal testing was more JV BS. If anything it was a performance program. I guess he had a core group doping at Garmin and rest were on tight reins or did their own on the side.

I sure as heck don't expect a public mea culpa from Vaughters. His massive u-turn after Danielson's positive showed the true JV.

Open another bottle of red, 'ey JV?

 

[blackcat]

hi

ten characters.

technical instrument error

 

[sniper]

Re:

technical instrument error

talking of instruments, here's one from 2008 i.e. a year before Wiggo's breakthrough:

Space Legs: Garmin’s Secret Weapon
Tour Tech: Garmin Recovery: The leg compression device.

While thermo regulation is the mainstay of the riders performing at their best on the bike and recovering afterwards, Lim and his riders call NormaTec PCDs their secret recovery weapon.

NormaTec’s PCD acronym stands for Pneumatic Compression Device. The team uses the company’s leg compression devices. The ‘space legs,’ as the riders’ call them, are akin to compression tights multiplied by 100 and given a mind of their own. They inflate and deflate to carefully prescribed pressures that have been proven to effectively treat swollen limbs due to medical conditions like diabetes and lymphatic disorders, as well as non-healing wounds. The team has found the devices dramatically reduce recovery time and improve the riders’ performances.

velonews.competitor.com/2008/07/news/road/how-garmin-chipotle-keeps-its-riders-fresh-for-the-tour_80922#DAKRkCsrih21YGzT.99

 

[blackcat]

Re:

hi

ten characters.

technical instrument error

I think you mean machine calibration error, aka acronym MCE

thanks.

you are not talking to yourself blackcat?

no. no I am not. that is not a double negative, merely it is a pleonasm.

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

hi

ten characters.

technical instrument error

I think you mean machine calibration error, aka acronym MCE

thanks.

you are not talking to yourself blackcat?

no. no I am not. that is not a double negative, merely it is a pleonasm.

 

[Benotti69]

Garmin are similar to team sky, clean mantra, doing it differently, new era, new methods, internal testing, etc etc and the rest of the BS.

Garmin didn't see Wiggins in 09 the year he came 4th in TdF for them! So that blows their BS out of the water.

We know of Danielson's positive.

So was JV warned to be small and not get cocky or win too much, because he went to USADA in 04? Or was JV smarter than the average bear and knew he would be allowed play as long as he didn't hog the ball.

Interesting......

 

[sniper]

Re:

Garmin are similar to team sky, clean mantra, doing it differently, new era, new methods, internal testing, etc etc and the rest of the BS.

Garmin didn't see Wiggins in 09 the year he came 4th in TdF for them! So that blows their BS out of the water.

We know of Danielson's positive.

So was JV warned to be small and not get cocky or win too much, because he went to USADA in 04? Or was JV smarter than the average bear and knew he would be allowed play as long as he didn't hog the ball.

Interesting......

couldnt agree more.


Kimmage now commenting on Garmin and especially Lim.
https://cyclingtips.com/2017/03/interview-paul-kimmage-team-skys-charade-exposed/

But I also had an experience with Allen Lim. I was totally hoodwinked by him [Lim was Garmin’s physiologist at the time, and was later accused by Floyd Landis of helping him to dope in 2005 and 2006].

Where Kimmage seemed willing to defend Garmin, or at least Martin, in the past, in this interview he's tellingly cautious.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Garmin are similar to team sky, clean mantra, doing it differently, new era, new methods, internal testing, etc etc and the rest of the BS.

Garmin didn't see Wiggins in 09 the year he came 4th in TdF for them! So that blows their BS out of the water.

We know of Danielson's positive.

So was JV warned to be small and not get cocky or win too much, because he went to USADA in 04? Or was JV smarter than the average bear and knew he would be allowed play as long as he didn't hog the ball.

Interesting......

couldnt agree more.


Kimmage now commenting on Garmin and especially Lim.
https://cyclingtips.com/2017/03/interview-paul-kimmage-team-skys-charade-exposed/

But I also had an experience with Allen Lim. I was totally hoodwinked by him [Lim was Garmin’s physiologist at the time, and was later accused by Floyd Landis of helping him to dope in 2005 and 2006].

Where Kimmage seemed willing to defend Garmin, or at least Martin, in the past, in this interview he's tellingly cautious.

Yeah, the bit where Kimmage says this

You ask me about the year I spent with Garmin. It was an interesting Tour. It was a positive experience. Is it journalism? No, definitely not – it is not what journalists should be doing. That is not to say that I wouldn’t do it again, but I don’t think…ultimately, in terms of transparency, sure, it is definitely a positive thing and a good thing and I’m glad I did it. But in terms of verification or a certification of their propriety, you could not in any way say it is a measure of anything, really.

Bet Vaughters spits out his wine reading that :lol:

 

[Benotti69]

Kimmage blows the garmin clean thing out of the water with that interview.

JV cant pretend to be a clean team no more. That JV was not suspicious of Wiggins in 2009 and drop him or internally test him shows just how much a snakeoil salesman he is. #MCE

 

[yaco]

Kimmage is a bit of a dreamer - Bit rich to expect WT teams to publically criticise Sky, especially seeing half the issue is BC - No way will the sponsors will allow team staff or riders to speak publically - Nice try Kimmage.

 

[pastronef]

Re:

Kimmage is a bit of a dreamer - Bit rich to expect WT teams to publically criticise Sky, especially seeing half the issue is BC - No way will the sponsors will allow team staff or riders to speak publically - Nice try Kimmage.

agree, free to ask and expect whatever he wants from teams, but if one knows cycling knows it´s useless to expect teams to do that.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Kimmage is a bit of a dreamer - Bit rich to expect WT teams to publically criticise Sky, especially seeing half the issue is BC - No way will the sponsors will allow team staff or riders to speak publically - Nice try Kimmage.

Dont shoot Kimmage for being a journalist and doing his job. He aint a dreamer, he is calling it. He is right. No other teams or riders slamming Sky/BC because of omerta.

This is nothing new and neither is Kimmage just starting to bang this drum. He has been banging the drum about teams and riders calling out the cheats since he wrote Rough Ride.

I doubt any expect others to call out Sky as they are doing something similar, but it didn't stop Kittel, Cav, and others calling out Turkish riders or Ricco.

nice try Yaco but fail.

 

[Benotti69]

it was written about Team Sky but it could easily have been JV,

.......we have been played for fools by people whose charlatanry is becoming increasingly apparent

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2017/mar/08/team-sky-are-hoist-on-their-own-petard-by-admissions-of-amateurism

JV's charalatanry was apparent to some us for a long time. So called Internal testing, not cool to dope, new generation marginal gains (yep JV talked them before Sky) yada yada

For someone who allegedly dedicated his life to anti-doping he sure has made a good living out of sport riddled with doping!

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Kimmage is a bit of a dreamer - Bit rich to expect WT teams to publically criticise Sky, especially seeing half the issue is BC - No way will the sponsors will allow team staff or riders to speak publically - Nice try Kimmage.

Dont shoot Kimmage for being a journalist and doing his job. He aint a dreamer, he is calling it. He is right. No other teams or riders slamming Sky/BC because of omerta.

This is nothing new and neither is Kimmage just starting to bang this drum. He has been banging the drum about teams and riders calling out the cheats since he wrote Rough Ride.

I doubt any expect others to call out Sky as they are doing something similar, but it didn't stop Kittel, Cav, and others calling out Turkish riders or Ricco.

nice try Yaco but fail.

It's irrelevant whether Kimmage has been banging this drum for years - The fact is teams and riders have contractual clauses they must follow - And this will often mean you must be discreet with any public comments - Why did Daniel Benson in his story two days ago fail to name the Sky Rider who asked for Brailsford to stand down ? Why do journalists always use the word 'sources' in their articles ? Kimmage is crying like a baby because no rider/team will give him the 'killer' direct quotes for his articles - I also suggest that Kimmage may not be the first journalist of choice for those in the pro peleton.

 

[Ironhead Slim]

Re: Re:

Kimmage is a bit of a dreamer - Bit rich to expect WT teams to publically criticise Sky, especially seeing half the issue is BC - No way will the sponsors will allow team staff or riders to speak publically - Nice try Kimmage.

Dont shoot Kimmage for being a journalist and doing his job. He aint a dreamer, he is calling it. He is right. No other teams or riders slamming Sky/BC because of omerta.

This is nothing new and neither is Kimmage just starting to bang this drum. He has been banging the drum about teams and riders calling out the cheats since he wrote Rough Ride.

I doubt any expect others to call out Sky as they are doing something similar, but it didn't stop Kittel, Cav, and others calling out Turkish riders or Ricco.

nice try Yaco but fail.

It's irrelevant whether Kimmage has been banging this drum for years - The fact is teams and riders have contractual clauses they must follow - And this will often mean you must be discreet with any public comments - Why did Daniel Benson in his story two days ago fail to name the Sky Rider who asked for Brailsford to stand down ? Why do journalists always use the word 'sources' in their articles ? Kimmage is crying like a baby because no rider/team will give him the 'killer' direct quotes for his articles - I also suggest that Kimmage may not be the first journalist of choice for those in the pro peleton.

You are completely misreading Kimmage. You are really failing at this, as was already pointed out. I also do not think you understand how journalism works. The potential subject of a story (pro peleton) are not the ones to decide who runs the story. We already went through that with Walsh embedded in Sky.

 

[Benotti69]

Hey JV, Rigo Uran was getting Corticosteroid injections at Sky for asthma, with a TUE, is he getting the same at your 'clean' team?