How exactly, following RvV and PR 2010, could he not have been concerned about motoruse?“It’s not something I was ever concerned about as a rider or manager,” said Vaughters of the motor rumors.
understandable, after having gone on the record multiple times saying he thinks they're clean.Benotti69 said:Vaughters silence, from a man dedicating his life to anti-doping, on Sky is telling.
So in 2009 Vaughters told NYTimes they had an internal testing program. How did that internal system not show that Wiggins transformation from gruppetto to 4th in a GT was doping?A N Other @karlosophical 5h5 hours ago
So when @SirWiggo came 4th (3rd) in 2009 are @Vaughters + @millarmind saying it was pan y agua?
Can anyone in the sport say anything please?
Jonathan Vaughters @Vaughters
@karlosophical Yeah, I think it was. *think* being the key word. Then, he went looking for that last .05% that separates 1st from 4th. Sad.
Vaughters believed his own BS. He actually thought Wiggins was clean. He argued his belief to ex-Postal riders even though they laughed at how obvious Wiggins' doping was. After Wiggins TUEs were revealed, Vaughters made a private mea culpa. Don't expect him to do a public one.Benotti69 said:Vaughters silence, from a man dedicating his life to anti-doping, on Sky is telling.
mea culpa about Wiggins being clean at Garmin or Sky?DamianoMachiavelli said:Vaughters believed his own BS. He actually thought Wiggins was clean. He argued his belief to ex-Postal riders even though they laughed at how obvious Wiggins' doping was. After Wiggins TUEs were revealed, Vaughters made a private mea culpa. Don't expect him to do a public one.Benotti69 said:Vaughters silence, from a man dedicating his life to anti-doping, on Sky is telling.
Who knows what JV is thinking these days...other than cashing those big checks from Ellis.
Vaughters is a total sleeveen.DamianoMachiavelli said:Vaughters believed his own BS. He actually thought Wiggins was clean. He argued his belief to ex-Postal riders even though they laughed at how obvious Wiggins' doping was. After Wiggins TUEs were revealed, Vaughters made a private mea culpa. Don't expect him to do a public one.Benotti69 said:Vaughters silence, from a man dedicating his life to anti-doping, on Sky is telling.
Who knows what JV is thinking these days...other than cashing those big checks from Ellis.
talking of instruments, here's one from 2008 i.e. a year before Wiggo's breakthrough:blackcat said:technical instrument error
Space Legs: Garmin’s Secret Weapon
Tour Tech: Garmin Recovery: The leg compression device.
While thermo regulation is the mainstay of the riders performing at their best on the bike and recovering afterwards, Lim and his riders call NormaTec PCDs their secret recovery weapon.
NormaTec’s PCD acronym stands for Pneumatic Compression Device. The team uses the company’s leg compression devices. The ‘space legs,’ as the riders’ call them, are akin to compression tights multiplied by 100 and given a mind of their own. They inflate and deflate to carefully prescribed pressures that have been proven to effectively treat swollen limbs due to medical conditions like diabetes and lymphatic disorders, as well as non-healing wounds. The team has found the devices dramatically reduce recovery time and improve the riders’ performances.
velonews.competitor.com/2008/07/news/road/how-garmin-chipotle-keeps-its-riders-fresh-for-the-tour_80922#DAKRkCsrih21YGzT.99
I think you mean machine calibration error, aka acronym MCEblackcat said:hi
ten characters.
technical instrument error
blackcat said:I think you mean machine calibration error, aka acronym MCEblackcat said:hi
ten characters.
technical instrument error
thanks.
you are not talking to yourself blackcat?
no. no I am not. that is not a double negative, merely it is a pleonasm.
couldnt agree more.Benotti69 said:Garmin are similar to team sky, clean mantra, doing it differently, new era, new methods, internal testing, etc etc and the rest of the BS.
Garmin didn't see Wiggins in 09 the year he came 4th in TdF for them! So that blows their BS out of the water.
We know of Danielson's positive.
So was JV warned to be small and not get cocky or win too much, because he went to USADA in 04? Or was JV smarter than the average bear and knew he would be allowed play as long as he didn't hog the ball.
Interesting......
Where Kimmage seemed willing to defend Garmin, or at least Martin, in the past, in this interview he's tellingly cautious.But I also had an experience with Allen Lim. I was totally hoodwinked by him [Lim was Garmin’s physiologist at the time, and was later accused by Floyd Landis of helping him to dope in 2005 and 2006].
Yeah, the bit where Kimmage says thissniper said:couldnt agree more.Benotti69 said:Garmin are similar to team sky, clean mantra, doing it differently, new era, new methods, internal testing, etc etc and the rest of the BS.
Garmin didn't see Wiggins in 09 the year he came 4th in TdF for them! So that blows their BS out of the water.
We know of Danielson's positive.
So was JV warned to be small and not get cocky or win too much, because he went to USADA in 04? Or was JV smarter than the average bear and knew he would be allowed play as long as he didn't hog the ball.
Interesting......
Kimmage now commenting on Garmin and especially Lim.
https://cyclingtips.com/2017/03/interview-paul-kimmage-team-skys-charade-exposed/
Where Kimmage seemed willing to defend Garmin, or at least Martin, in the past, in this interview he's tellingly cautious.But I also had an experience with Allen Lim. I was totally hoodwinked by him [Lim was Garmin’s physiologist at the time, and was later accused by Floyd Landis of helping him to dope in 2005 and 2006].
Bet Vaughters spits out his wine reading that :lol:You ask me about the year I spent with Garmin. It was an interesting Tour. It was a positive experience. Is it journalism? No, definitely not – it is not what journalists should be doing. That is not to say that I wouldn’t do it again, but I don’t think…ultimately, in terms of transparency, sure, it is definitely a positive thing and a good thing and I’m glad I did it. But in terms of verification or a certification of their propriety, you could not in any way say it is a measure of anything, really.
agree, free to ask and expect whatever he wants from teams, but if one knows cycling knows it´s useless to expect teams to do that.yaco said:Kimmage is a bit of a dreamer - Bit rich to expect WT teams to publically criticise Sky, especially seeing half the issue is BC - No way will the sponsors will allow team staff or riders to speak publically - Nice try Kimmage.
Dont shoot Kimmage for being a journalist and doing his job. He aint a dreamer, he is calling it. He is right. No other teams or riders slamming Sky/BC because of omerta.yaco said:Kimmage is a bit of a dreamer - Bit rich to expect WT teams to publically criticise Sky, especially seeing half the issue is BC - No way will the sponsors will allow team staff or riders to speak publically - Nice try Kimmage.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2017/mar/08/team-sky-are-hoist-on-their-own-petard-by-admissions-of-amateurism.......we have been played for fools by people whose charlatanry is becoming increasingly apparent
It's irrelevant whether Kimmage has been banging this drum for years - The fact is teams and riders have contractual clauses they must follow - And this will often mean you must be discreet with any public comments - Why did Daniel Benson in his story two days ago fail to name the Sky Rider who asked for Brailsford to stand down ? Why do journalists always use the word 'sources' in their articles ? Kimmage is crying like a baby because no rider/team will give him the 'killer' direct quotes for his articles - I also suggest that Kimmage may not be the first journalist of choice for those in the pro peleton.Benotti69 said:Dont shoot Kimmage for being a journalist and doing his job. He aint a dreamer, he is calling it. He is right. No other teams or riders slamming Sky/BC because of omerta.yaco said:Kimmage is a bit of a dreamer - Bit rich to expect WT teams to publically criticise Sky, especially seeing half the issue is BC - No way will the sponsors will allow team staff or riders to speak publically - Nice try Kimmage.
This is nothing new and neither is Kimmage just starting to bang this drum. He has been banging the drum about teams and riders calling out the cheats since he wrote Rough Ride.
I doubt any expect others to call out Sky as they are doing something similar, but it didn't stop Kittel, Cav, and others calling out Turkish riders or Ricco.
nice try Yaco but fail.
You are completely misreading Kimmage. You are really failing at this, as was already pointed out. I also do not think you understand how journalism works. The potential subject of a story (pro peleton) are not the ones to decide who runs the story. We already went through that with Walsh embedded in Sky.yaco said:It's irrelevant whether Kimmage has been banging this drum for years - The fact is teams and riders have contractual clauses they must follow - And this will often mean you must be discreet with any public comments - Why did Daniel Benson in his story two days ago fail to name the Sky Rider who asked for Brailsford to stand down ? Why do journalists always use the word 'sources' in their articles ? Kimmage is crying like a baby because no rider/team will give him the 'killer' direct quotes for his articles - I also suggest that Kimmage may not be the first journalist of choice for those in the pro peleton.Benotti69 said:Dont shoot Kimmage for being a journalist and doing his job. He aint a dreamer, he is calling it. He is right. No other teams or riders slamming Sky/BC because of omerta.yaco said:Kimmage is a bit of a dreamer - Bit rich to expect WT teams to publically criticise Sky, especially seeing half the issue is BC - No way will the sponsors will allow team staff or riders to speak publically - Nice try Kimmage.
This is nothing new and neither is Kimmage just starting to bang this drum. He has been banging the drum about teams and riders calling out the cheats since he wrote Rough Ride.
I doubt any expect others to call out Sky as they are doing something similar, but it didn't stop Kittel, Cav, and others calling out Turkish riders or Ricco.
nice try Yaco but fail.
I called out Kimmage for whinging about the lack of public comments from pro riders/teams in regards to the Sky situation - He knows full well as a journalist how the caper works - Why do journalists often write ' n unnamed source' in articles - Why do journalists protect their sources ? Because people are careful what they place on the public record.Ironhead Slim said:You are completely misreading Kimmage. You are really failing at this, as was already pointed out. I also do not think you understand how journalism works. The potential subject of a story (pro peleton) are not the ones to decide who runs the story. We already went through that with Walsh embedded in Sky.yaco said:It's irrelevant whether Kimmage has been banging this drum for years - The fact is teams and riders have contractual clauses they must follow - And this will often mean you must be discreet with any public comments - Why did Daniel Benson in his story two days ago fail to name the Sky Rider who asked for Brailsford to stand down ? Why do journalists always use the word 'sources' in their articles ? Kimmage is crying like a baby because no rider/team will give him the 'killer' direct quotes for his articles - I also suggest that Kimmage may not be the first journalist of choice for those in the pro peleton.Benotti69 said:Dont shoot Kimmage for being a journalist and doing his job. He aint a dreamer, he is calling it. He is right. No other teams or riders slamming Sky/BC because of omerta.yaco said:Kimmage is a bit of a dreamer - Bit rich to expect WT teams to publically criticise Sky, especially seeing half the issue is BC - No way will the sponsors will allow team staff or riders to speak publically - Nice try Kimmage.
This is nothing new and neither is Kimmage just starting to bang this drum. He has been banging the drum about teams and riders calling out the cheats since he wrote Rough Ride.
I doubt any expect others to call out Sky as they are doing something similar, but it didn't stop Kittel, Cav, and others calling out Turkish riders or Ricco.
nice try Yaco but fail.